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What consequences for those that spread hate?

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Aquila King
12 minutes ago, Lord Harry said:

The way I see it, the only ones spreading "hate" around these parts are you and Harkenhunter with your slanderous personal attacks on other forum members who have a different political position than your own. 

Says the person who just casually called for the illegal war against Mexico and senseless slaughter of countless civilians. 

I genuinely dont think you have the first clue what love and hate actually are.

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Lord Harry
13 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Says the person who just casually called for the illegal war against Mexico and senseless slaughter of countless civilians. 

I genuinely dont think you have the first clue what love and hate actually are.

My proposed war is perfectly legal in light of the clear violations of American national sovereignty.  I was jesting about the annexation of territory and indiscriminate slaughter of civilians.  Though I do believe a thorough military thrashing of Mexico is in good order.

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Aquila King
1 minute ago, Lord Harry said:

My proposed war is perfectly legal in light of the clear violations of American national sovereignty. 

In the eyes of international law, it isn't. Cause again, there is no violation of America's national sovereignty.

Legally speaking, a war is only viable if the government of another country attacks or declares war against another. Illegal immigrants are individuals who's crimes are misdemeanor offenses. If anything we have a problem with illegal immigrants as individuals, not the Mexican government. 

Though to be fair, the US has had no problem waging illegal war and ignoring Geneva Conventions left and right cause we somehow think we're above international law. We're already waging multiple illegal wars as we speak. So to wage some other stupid illegal immoral war isn't exactly unprecedented... <_<

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Aquila King
11 minutes ago, Lord Harry said:

I was jesting about the annexation of territory and indiscriminate slaughter of civilians.  Though I do believe a thorough military thrashing of Mexico is in good order.

Btw, do you really want to take the "I was just joking about genocide" defense?

Again, you know nothing about bare-basic moral principles.

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Piney
4 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

When you don't fit in with either extreme, it usually means you're a reasonable centrist.

 

4 hours ago, travelnjones said:

I am not into blindly hating a group.  Hating an individual for personal reason just is a better more satisfying form of hate.

I sit in the middle and hate them all. :yes: 

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Aquila King

a5e9e04.jpg

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Agent0range
5 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

 

Could you give me some examples of the Trump administration making false accusations ? 

Obama born in Kenya.

3 million illegals voted.

The Mueller investigation is the most corrupt investigation ever (that is a near quote)

Obama wire tapped Trump Tower

El Paso was accused of being one of the most dangerous cities in America

Ted Cruz's father helped assassinate JFK

 

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Luca-Rosemom 19
51 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

Obama born in Kenya.

3 million illegals voted.

The Mueller investigation is the most corrupt investigation ever (that is a near quote)

Obama wire tapped Trump Tower

El Paso was accused of being one of the most dangerous cities in America

Ted Cruz's father helped assassinate JFK

 

Wait so not only was Ted Cruz the Zodic Killer his father helped with JFK being asssassinated? Busy family hey 

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Aquila King
17 minutes ago, Ruby04 said:

Wait so not only was Ted Cruz the Zodic Killer his father helped with JFK being asssassinated? Busy family hey 

Who're you to talk about conspiracy theories? You're from Australia which doesn't even exist. :P

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Luca-Rosemom 19
Just now, Aquila King said:

Who're you to talk about conspiracy theories? You're from Australia which doesn't even exist. :P

I forgot that lol

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Sir Wearer of Hats
1 hour ago, Aquila King said:

Who're you to talk about conspiracy theories? You're from Australia which doesn't even exist. :P

MORE LIES.

Who do you think invented Velcro? It’s how we in Australia remain attached when upside down.

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Luca-Rosemom 19
9 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

MORE LIES.

Who do you think invented Velcro? It’s how we in Australia remain attached when upside down.

So that’s how we do it 

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Sir Wearer of Hats
4 minutes ago, Ruby04 said:

So that’s how we do it 

That and grip on with out toes.

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Golden Duck
9 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

False accusations ? 

On a daily basis ? 

Could you give me some examples of the Trump administration making false accusations ? 

Meanwhile, if Jussie Smollet DID invent this whole attack story - and there ARE some disquieting aspects of his behavior and testimony with the police - then it was a political act. He deliberately tried to stir up hatred against Donald Trump, and Donald Trump supporters. He should be charged with a Hate Crime !!

It doesn't really fit the definition of hate crime.

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Hankenhunter
2 hours ago, Aquila King said:

Who're you to talk about conspiracy theories? You're from Australia which doesn't even exist. :P

Fourecks? Obscure? 

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Golden Duck
9 hours ago, and then said:

If you can try to back off the level of furious indignation for a moment, maybe we could all learn something from this story.  I didn't post it to accuse EITHER "side" of being the original sinner or being "worse than".  I genuinely wanted to discuss the trend we have today of being so ready to attack those who don't believe as we do that we've stopped even caring if those attacks are justified or whether they may actually cause serious harm.  I'll cop to it also.  Guilty as charged at times.  

For the last two years, I've listened to reports from the WaPo, NYT, CNN, you know the list, and quite often those reports have turned out to be less than fully true.  In fact, they have tended to deal more in innuendo than fact.  THAT is MY perspective and it made me angry that so many on the Left simply dismissed those concerns.  Then I began wondering if those attacking Trump actually believed all the things that had been reported without evidence to back it.  Today I'm convinced that they do.  Just as I have a right to come to my own conclusions, so do those on the Left.  Here's the salient point though.  Even an Alabamian educated in poor public schools learned the value, the absolute necessity of "innocent until proven guilty".  The idea that evidence had to be given to prove accusations that attack a person's character just went without saying.  With the results of the 2016 election, ALL of that seems to have been kicked to the curb.  

You have every right to hate whoever you choose but is it worth literally destroying the fabric of our country just to get Trump removed and to confound his supporters?  Where did all the hate come from?  The attorney for the Covington students used an apt term that I think describes social media perfectly today - CYBERMOB.  I don't think any of us truly appreciate just how ugly a mob can be until we see it at OUR door.

You have a vote and you have dollars.  They're commodities someone else wants.

You know how those media outlets survive.  Don't support those you don't like.  If you want to go further, boycott those who advertise through them.

If truth becomes profitable, Russian Interference would be moot and respect in the American voter would be restored.

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Golden Duck
9 hours ago, Michelle said:

For those who dismissed Fox out of hand on the Covington story...

Probe finds no proof of ‘racist or offensive statements’ by Covington Catholic students in viral incident

An investigation into the viral encounter between students from Covington Catholic High School and a Native American man found the students' accounts to be largely accurate, according to findings released Wednesday.

Greater Cincinnati Investigations issued a report dated Feb. 11 that found no evidence that students from Covington Catholic made “offensive or racist” statements to either Black Hebrew Israelites or Native American tribe members gathered on the National Mall.

"The statements we obtained from students and chaperones are remarkably consistent," the investigators said. “And, the statements are consistent with the videos we reviewed."

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/429845-probe-finds-no-proof-of-racist-or-offensive-statements-by

1

A report from an Australian conservative journalist

 

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and then
53 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

You know how those media outlets survive.

They've been getting along without my support for years now.  CNN hasn't made a profit in many years but they keep going strong because they serve the purpose of pushing propaganda.

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RoofGardener
10 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

......Don't know, where did all the 'hate' for Obama and Hillary come from?  This ain't new.  I have to entirely disagree with 'the fabric of our country' being at risk, what is going on here is what should be happening: people engaging in arguments critical of and supporting various issues.  Sounds pretty democratic to me, although I'm not sure if it's preferable in every way to the general apathy rightly born of disgust with our government that has prevailed for a long time.

Well, in part because of their actions, or perceived actions. And lest we forget, the left-wing hate has been around for a while. George Bush was villified in the same way (or worse) than Donald Trump is today. Complete with Satan comparisons and death threats by public figures. 

11 hours ago, Aquila King said:

I said "Alexa, list Trump's lies."

She wouldn't shut the **** up for three days.

ROFL. But I didn't say lies, I asked about accusations. 

6 hours ago, Aquila King said:

Says the person who just casually called for the illegal war against Mexico and senseless slaughter of countless civilians. 

I genuinely dont think you have the first clue what love and hate actually are.

Hmm.. not SENSELESS, Aquila King :P 

6 hours ago, Aquila King said:

Though to be fair, the US has had no problem waging illegal war and ignoring Geneva Conventions left and right cause we somehow think we're above international law. We're already waging multiple illegal wars as we speak. So to wage some other stupid illegal immoral war isn't exactly unprecedented... <_<

You are ? Wars ? Whereabouts ? 

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RoofGardener
1 hour ago, Golden Duck said:

It doesn't really fit the definition of hate crime.

Well, not a liberal definition, I'll grant you. Because it was committed by a liberal.

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Golden Duck
11 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, not a liberal definition, I'll grant you. Because it was committed by a liberal.

Since when were the FBI "liberal"?

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RoofGardener
4 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Since when were the FBI "liberal"?

I was referring to Jussie Smollet ? 

Oh.. I see what you mean. Who defines 'hate crime' ? 

Interesting: wikipedia defines it as "....[/i]A hate crime (also known as a bias-motivated crime or bias crime[1]) is a prejudice-motivated crime which occurs when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership (or perceived membership) in a certain social group or race..."[/i]

Trump supporters would - presumably - be classed as an identifiable social group. Hence Jussie's fake attack charge would potentially stir up hatred against members of this group. 

However, on a very brief search, it appears that USA laws don't entirely follow Wikipedia's definition. US laws explicitly specify WHICH "social groups" can be classified as being subject to a hate crime, and they seem to exclude political beliefs. ?? 

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Arbenol
19 hours ago, and then said:

How do we handle people making things up and pushing a false story in social media? 

You'd vote him in for a second term.:P

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Golden Duck
7 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

I was referring to Jussie Smollet ? 

Oh.. I see what you mean. Who defines 'hate crime' ? 

Interesting: wikipedia defines it as "....[/i]A hate crime (also known as a bias-motivated crime or bias crime[1]) is a prejudice-motivated crime which occurs when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership (or perceived membership) in a certain social group or race..."[/i]

Trump supporters would - presumably - be classed as an identifiable social group. Hence Jussie's fake attack charge would potentially stir up hatred against members of this group. 

However, on a very brief search, it appears that USA laws don't entirely follow Wikipedia's definition. US laws explicitly specify WHICH "social groups" can be classified as being subject to a hate crime, and they seem to exclude political beliefs. ?? 

I was using the definition given by the FBI:

Quote

A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, the FBI has defined a hate crime as a “criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, ethnicity, gender, or gender identity.” Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties.

I don't think you could reasonably prove Smollet committed a crime against person or property.  He may have made a false statement, but police are still investigating.

The relevant section is here https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/245

Free speech is protected. So it seems a hate crime needs to include a physical criminal act.

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RoofGardener
17 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

I was using the definition given by the FBI:

I don't think you could reasonably prove Smollet committed a crime against person or property.  He may have made a false statement, but police are still investigating.

The relevant section is here https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/245

Free speech is protected. So it seems a hate crime needs to include a physical criminal act.

Hmm.. very interesting. Thanks for that Golden Duck. 

So inciting hatred against an identifiable social group is NOT in itself a 'hate crime' ? 

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