Habitat Posted February 15, 2019 #76 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Poor old joc, perhaps the greatest "digital" thinker on this site, everything is either black or white, "on" or "off". laissez-faire capitalism is an acknowledged historical evil, totalitarian communism another acknowledged historical evil, there is a great deal away from those extremes, to consider. One cannot doubt that the deregulation of the corporate sector, is a move back toward laissez-faire policies, it is not benefitting the majority, the pendulum swings back and forth, but when it goes to the extremes, the least people are the beneficiary . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katniss Posted February 15, 2019 #77 Share Posted February 15, 2019 2 hours ago, RavenHawk said: That’s still giving free stuff. Healthcare and education should never be free or in other words, it should not be provided by the government. The government should facilitate the acquisition of these things by the individual easier. The basic necessity of the individual is to do things for themselves. To acquire things for themselves and to pursue their own self-interests without government infringing. If they cannot not do that, then they will not survive. It is usually government that hinders the individual from this basic right. So no current free healthcare and education for the disabled or mentally challenged by the government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila King Posted February 15, 2019 #78 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 hour ago, joc said: Now, if you want Socialism...and it 'is' a very slippery slope...then what you want really is Equality right? Equal Opportunity, not Equality of Outcome. 1 hour ago, joc said: We already have fairness and equal opportunity. Arguing that we do not is an indefensible position. WTF??? I'd say arguing that we DO have equal opportunity is an indefensible position. Well, I don't know if I'd go that far technically. I mean, I could understand someone who's financially privileged to not understand the economic plight of millions of Americans, so maybe not indefensible. But it's certainly a baseless assertion founded on zero empirical evidence. Again, I've already explained this to you, so at this point you're either ignoring what I've been saying over and over again, or you just aren't capable of grasping what I've been laying down here brother. 1 hour ago, joc said: Never said that...your words...my mouth. There are people who do need help and we have a vast array of Social Network to provide for them. Again...saying we do not is an indefensible position. Okay, now I just think you're just parroting back something I might have said somewhere else previously. As if that somehow gives you permission to dismiss any rational arguments or evidence in opposition to your claim. 1 hour ago, joc said: You are struggling ...and failing...to argue an indefensible position. Yep. Seems you found your new buzzword. Imma just leave ya to it then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Harry Posted February 15, 2019 #79 Share Posted February 15, 2019 8 hours ago, Aquila King said: That has never been the goal of us Social Democrats. We are not aiming to provide a decent living to those that don't work, and no, that isn't in the deal. We're talking about basic necessities in order to survive. Get it? How many times do I need to repeat myself? Regardless, such a program that you propose encourages illegal aliens, welfare queens, gang bangers and other leeches and useless dregs of society to take advantage of the system. And is actually a boon which leads to an increase in illegal immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted February 15, 2019 #80 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Ellapennella said: Have you heard of Charles Lawson? Angry old guy is angry? Edited February 15, 2019 by Likely Guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila King Posted February 15, 2019 #81 Share Posted February 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Lord Harry said: Regardless, such a program that you propose encourages illegal aliens, welfare queens, gang bangers and other leeches and useless dregs of society to take advantage of the system. And is actually a boon which leads to an increase in illegal immigration. I'm much more concerned about native born low-lives such as you than I am any illegal immigrants. You guys who incessantly disparage 'the other' are the only "useless dregs of society" that I see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted February 15, 2019 #82 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Lord Harry said: Regardless, such a program that you propose encourages illegal aliens, welfare queens, gang bangers and other leeches and useless dregs of society to take advantage of the system. And is actually a boon which leads to an increase in illegal immigration. Edit: I was going to ask you to expand on that part, but I realized what you were going to say anyways. Sorry for bothering you. Edited February 15, 2019 by Likely Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted February 15, 2019 #83 Share Posted February 15, 2019 25 minutes ago, Aquila King said: I mean, I could understand someone who's financially privileged to not understand the economic plight of millions of Americans, so maybe not indefensible. But it's certainly a baseless assertion founded on zero empirical evidence. What Americans do you speak? I don't even know millions of people. You must get around a lot more than I do. And what is financially privileged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted February 15, 2019 #84 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Habitat said: One cannot doubt that the deregulation of the corporate sector, is a move back toward laissez-faire policies, it is not benefitting the majority, the pendulum swings back and forth, but when it goes to the extremes, the least people are the beneficiary I think most economists would disagree. By getting rid of crippling regulations, Corps are able to expand and higher more and more people. So who isn't benefiting from that exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila King Posted February 15, 2019 #85 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 minute ago, joc said: What Americans do you speak? I don't even know millions of people. You must get around a lot more than I do. And what is financially privileged? Fifty million people in the US live in poverty, with little hope of mobility for themselves or their children. If you don't want to acknowledge that fact, then that's on you. But that's what the data shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted February 15, 2019 #86 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, joc said: I think most economists would disagree. By getting rid of crippling regulations, Corps are able to expand and higher more and more people. So who isn't benefiting from that exactly? You sound like a believer in trickle-down economics, joc, it is more a con than anything. If it is true that the wealthiest 25 people in the world have more than the poorer half of the world's population, I am prepared to make the daring claim that it is just that, a con. Edited February 15, 2019 by Habitat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted February 15, 2019 #87 Share Posted February 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Aquila King said: Fifty million people in the US live in poverty, with little hope of mobility for themselves or their children. If you don't want to acknowledge that fact, then that's on you. But that's what the data shows. I thought Obama was all about hope. Who's data? And...what is financially privileged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted February 15, 2019 #88 Share Posted February 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, Habitat said: You sound like a believer in trickle-down economics, joc, it is more a con than anything. If it is true that the wealthiest 25 people in the world have more than the poorer half of the world's population, I am prepared to make the daring claim that it is just that, a con. What is your solution Hab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted February 15, 2019 #89 Share Posted February 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, joc said: What is your solution Hab? Not giving more money to those who have too much already, that's for sure, I think the average American was probably getting a better deal 30 years ago, than today. Money is certainly like manure for the garden, works best when spread around. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted February 15, 2019 #90 Share Posted February 15, 2019 43 minutes ago, joc said: What is your solution Hab? HAL> "I'm sorry Dave, I can not let you do that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila King Posted February 15, 2019 #91 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 hour ago, joc said: I thought Obama was all about hope. Obama was all about empty rhetoric and false promises. Don't assume me to be a supporter of his. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted February 15, 2019 #92 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Just now, Aquila King said: Obama was all about empty rhetoric and false promises. Don't assume me to be a supporter of his. He was a great orator, beyond that, I don't know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila King Posted February 15, 2019 #93 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Habitat said: He was a great orator, beyond that, I don't know. A report came out near the end of his presidency on how drone strikes under his administration killed the wrong people 97% of the time. You never hear any reporting on this because the neocon war hawks on the right are pro-war and don't care, and the establishment dems never speak of it for obvious partisan reasons. To me on that singular issue alone he was unfit for the office and deserved impeachment, much less any of the other things he did. He did a few good things that I do give him credit for, but that doesn't excuse the bad things which are horrendous in their own right. EDIT: Figured I'd add the link to that report I mentioned above: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147 Edited February 15, 2019 by Aquila King 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted February 15, 2019 #94 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Just now, Aquila King said: A report came out near the end of his presidency on how drone strikes under his administration killed the wrong people 97% of the time. You never hear any reporting on this because the neocon war hawks on the right are pro-war and don't care, and the establishment dems never speak of it for obvious partisan reasons. To me on that singular issue alone he was unfit for the office and deserved impeachment, much less any of the other things he did. He did a few good things that I do give him credit for, but that doesn't excuse the bad things which are horrendous in their own right. History (politics) is full of great "talking heads", who could sway people en masse, but their skills and virtues beyond that were less than stellar. Churchill is probably in that category. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila King Posted February 15, 2019 #95 Share Posted February 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, Habitat said: History (politics) is full of great "talking heads", who could sway people en masse, but their skills and virtues beyond that were less than stellar. Churchill is probably in that category. I agree. About the only American President in recent history I would support would be FDR. The rest are slaves to established elite orthodoxy and lobbying money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted February 15, 2019 #96 Share Posted February 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Aquila King said: I agree. About the only American President in recent history I would support would be FDR. The rest are slaves to established elite orthodoxy and lobbying money. I think LBJ was probably fortunate to ever take the chair, obviously, but unfortunate to be lumbered with the Vietnam tragedy, but I think he did have more sense of bringing in real change than Obama. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKing Posted February 15, 2019 #97 Share Posted February 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, Habitat said: He was a great orator, beyond that, I don't know. Honestly...if ya REALLY pay attention and look throughout history... Nah...not really... His "GRAND" speeches and great abilities to express the spoken word were vastly over credited. He behaved and spoke exactly as any puppet with a hand up their ass has and would... The ONLY thing that really causes anyone to have a second take on the reality of his time in office is the praise of him being the first black president... If anyone hoped for change during that run,well outside of surreal expectations and media hype...s*** still for the most part stayed exactly the same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted February 15, 2019 #98 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 minute ago, CrimsonKing said: Honestly...if ya REALLY pay attention and look throughout history... Nah...not really... His "GRAND" speeches and great abilities to express the spoken word were vastly over credited. He behaved and spoke exactly as any puppet with a hand up their ass has and would... The ONLY thing that really causes anyone to have a second take on the reality of his time in office is the praise of him being the first black president... If anyone hoped for change during that run,well outside of surreal expectations and media hype...s*** still for the most part stayed exactly the same! I'm in another country, but I know people who are pretty cynical about politicians, who appeared to be under the spell. It was all a bit like show business to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKing Posted February 15, 2019 #99 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Habitat said: I'm in another country, but I know people who are pretty cynical about politicians, who appeared to be under the spell. It was all a bit like show business to me. Our politics and worldwide media dominance for MANY decades has served its purpose at points,and down right sold propaganda at others... Yes...since around the Clinton/Lewinsky "scandals" our politics are mostly mainstreamed and generated for worldwide Hollywood effect... Our politicians are really the joke of the world,not our citizens... Yes i understand "but why dont you all just learn to vote correctly?!"... Meh that's complex lol... What do ya want first...The **** ups of the 80's,90's,or 2000-10... Those are just the ones i can try and answer for,ya got about a thousand hours for me to rant constantly and freely?... Hell i don't either bud lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted February 15, 2019 #100 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Aquila King said: A report came out near the end of his presidency on how drone strikes under his administration killed the wrong people 97% of the time. You never hear any reporting on this because the neocon war hawks on the right are pro-war and don't care, and the establishment dems never speak of it for obvious partisan reasons. ...and the Global Leftist Media gave Obama the power he had. 43 minutes ago, Aquila King said: About the only American President in recent history I would support would be FDR. The rest are slaves to established elite orthodoxy and lobbying money. FDR was not exactly recent history. Actually the only American President in recent history who is not a slave to established orthodoxy and lobbying money would be the current President...Donald J Trump... oh and of course Ronaldus Magnus Edited February 15, 2019 by joc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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