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AnaK26

Misidentified Gacy Victim?

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AnaK26

Hi all,

I am new here and I happened upon a sad case of a Chicago mom who's son, named Michael Marino, went missing in 1976 w/his friend Kenneth Parker.  Bodies recovered at the home of JW Gacy would be linked to the two via X-rays and dental records.

The case has haunted me strangely.  I feel such a sense of unusual empathy for this mom as a mom myself.  Probably bc of the way the system really failed missing children back in the day & still does in many instances today.

The article showed a picture of her son,  & evidently went into detail about the circumstances of how he went missing, and how facts concerning how his remains we're recovered led to doubts about them belonging to her son.

Ultimately, Marino's mother got a court order to exhume the body to which she paid for the remains to be DNA tested, & lo and behold, they were not a match with her DNA.  Parker's body was also exhumed but I don't think his family agreed to a test.

Clearly, this poor lady is holding out false hope and can't accept her son is gone, but I can't fault her, and to be fair the DNA was not a match.

She doesn't trust the Sheriff's Dept. to conduct a their own DNA test through a lab in N. TX, can't say I blame her, if they gave her the wrong body and the initial discrepancies surrounding the remains didn't line up with hers. IE clothing didn't match, molars didn't line up.

Sheriff Tom Dart appears complacent if she won't agree to a test through their department.

What gives here?  Is this just a grieving mother?  To be fair, even if he wasn't a Gacy victim, he's clearly dead & she may never find his remains.  But at the very least, the misidentified remains need to be entered into a missing persons database as well as her DNA.

I do know Gacy likely had accomplices & possibly other hiding places.

Thoughts, comments...???

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Piney
55 minutes ago, AnaK26 said:

Thoughts, comments...???

Link? 

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the13bats

I used to follow all the true crime stuff, i love a mystery,  im not surprised back in the 70s and in a rush to close the case and put it to rest so to speak LEOs dropped the ball in this case,

Sure, since this lady paid for her and an unknown victims dna testing it needs to go in a data base,

I fully agree gacy likely had other hiding places and more victims but i seriously doubt he had accomplices most to that degree work alone.

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AnaK26
30 minutes ago, the13bats said:

I used to follow all the true crime stuff, i love a mystery,  im not surprised back in the 70s and in a rush to close the case and put it to rest so to speak LEOs dropped the ball in this case,

Sure, since this lady paid for her and an unknown victims dna testing it needs to go in a data base,

I fully agree gacy likely had other hiding places and more victims but i seriously doubt he had accomplices most to that degree work alone.

Agree with you about that they were in a rush to solve the case on top of crime solving was no where near what it is today, on top of the fact that this case helped give birth to the entire "stranger danger, good touch, bad touch" dogma that was drilled into me during my youth.

However...https://www.winterwatch.net/2018/09/killer-clown-john-wayne-gacy-connected-to-large-ring-of-homosexual-sadists-murderers/

Edited by AnaK26
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the13bats

I had no idea, seems what he was arrested for was a tiny tip of the iceberg what he was into, hes one of those who has a special place in hell.

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Piney
6 hours ago, the13bats said:

I fully agree gacy likely had other hiding places and more victims but i seriously doubt he had accomplices most to that degree work alone.

I agree with this. I don't think he had any help either but I'm willing to bet there are many more victims. 

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AnaK26
7 hours ago, the13bats said:

I had no idea, seems what he was arrested for was a tiny tip of the iceberg what he was into, hes one of those who has a special place in hell.

Yeah, he was a real Jekyll & Hyde guy.  But he knew how to work with people having been a successful restaurant manager and pillar of the community.  If he could manage a restaurant by day certainly he manage a murderous sex ring by night.

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AnaK26
5 hours ago, Piney said:

I agree with this. I don't think he had any help either but I'm willing to bet there are many more victims. 

I hope for this mother's sake there are and it brings some closure.  Even if it doesn't take the pain away of a brutalized and murdered loved one.

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the13bats

Gacy, back when i would watch shows, interviews, read articles about him many times would strike me as a guy who wasnt exactly in this same world im in, one moment he would boast he was gay the next he would damn all homosexuals to hell, he talked with some weird detachment, and not necessarily someone of even average intelligence and perhaps aspergers, autism i do not know,

When they came to take him to execution he i recall said something like he was busy, and it would have to wait,

I understand he ran businesses but i would more believe he crossed paths with the others into the related evils he did but wasnt any leader or mastermind of it, not saying he didnt have a minion or two, but thankfully he got caught so he wasnt all that clever,

Its a shame and not always directly their fault but law enforcement has failed on many such cases,

I pretty much respect Robert Resslers work and opinions,

 

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Piney
9 hours ago, AnaK26 said:

I hope for this mother's sake there are and it brings some closure.  Even if it doesn't take the pain away of a brutalized and murdered loved one.

Nothing takes the pain from a brutalized murdered child. Trust me. :hmm:

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AnaK26
45 minutes ago, Piney said:

Nothing takes the pain from a brutalized murdered child. Trust me. :hmm:

It's horrific to lose a child to an accident or illness but to have a child go missing and never be found or to go missing and have been found brutally murdered, that's, in my opinion, the pinnacle of greatest tragedies.  I can't begin to extend my greatest sympathies to parents that have gone through this, & you if you're one of them.  

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AnaK26
5 hours ago, the13bats said:

Gacy, back when i would watch shows, interviews, read articles about him many times would strike me as a guy who wasnt exactly in this same world im in, one moment he would boast he was gay the next he would damn all homosexuals to hell, he talked with some weird detachment, and not necessarily someone of even average intelligence and perhaps aspergers, autism i do not know,

When they came to take him to execution he i recall said something like he was busy, and it would have to wait,

I understand he ran businesses but i would more believe he crossed paths with the others into the related evils he did but wasnt any leader or mastermind of it, not saying he didnt have a minion or two, but thankfully he got caught so he wasnt all that clever,

Its a shame and not always directly their fault but law enforcement has failed on many such cases,

I pretty much respect Robert Resslers work and opinions,

 

I guess what you've described is someone typical of mental derangement.  IE "one minute boasting he was gay, next minute damning all homosexuals.." Someone with a split personality and thus led a double life.  

When he spoke though, to me he seemed like your average "Joe Blow" down the block and that's what they scary thing about him was.  He didn't seem sophisticated or calculating nor did he seem stupid, just your average pre middle aged Midwesterner.  Why & how was able to get away with what he did.

Reading about his early years though explained it all to me.  As someone with a grad degree in psychology, having been emotionally /physically traumatized as a young boy by his father for not living up to his father's expectations was so telling.

Look at his victims and their ages and look at the gory details?  It was like he was channeling himself as a boy and his father.  The majority of the victims he pursued he perceived as inferior.  As his father did.

I don't think he was some mastermind, but he definitely had criminal skills.

I agree with you about Ressler, talented criminologist.

Edited by AnaK26
Word omission. Grammatical errors.

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the13bats

I might have met more people than average i was in the night club music biz, i sure do not claim mystic insites but i missed my mark here trying to explain, i didnt see gacy as average in fact i always questioned how he did simple things much less run businesses, the fact he did perhaps what i saw was a stunning act by him, and timing itvwas the 70s

I dont see burying victims under ones house great skills, might as well toss them in the back yard which a few killers do, might be ego that makes them do such things or perhaps way deep down they want to be caught, dahimer wanted to get caught so he said,

Timing means a lot, so many like this or dan coopers highjack, the zodiac, jack the ripper, etc never would get very far today.....

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Impedancer

 He still gives you the chills

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AnaK26
8 hours ago, Impedancer said:

 He still gives you the chills

Yes, he does.  What gives me the chills more was what happened to that missing boy?  Particularly, him erroneously being linked to Gacy.  And just happening randomly on a missing article about him.

Then reading another article a day after reading the first one, and it showing a picture of his headstone that showed his birthday.  Which last Friday would've been his 57th b-day.

And finally, then learning a day after that, that my children's family doctor was one of the key witnesses that led to Gacy's arrest.  Coincidental...sure.  But honestly, more than anything, I'd like a little more closure for that missing boy and his mom.

Edited by AnaK26
Grammatical errors

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AnaK26
11 hours ago, the13bats said:

I might have met more people than average i was in the night club music biz, i sure do not claim mystic insites but i missed my mark here trying to explain, i didnt see gacy as average in fact i always questioned how he did simple things much less run businesses, the fact he did perhaps what i saw was a stunning act by him, and timing itvwas the 70s

I dont see burying victims under ones house great skills, might as well toss them in the back yard which a few killers do, might be ego that makes them do such things or perhaps way deep down they want to be caught, dahimer wanted to get caught so he said,

Timing means a lot, so many like this or dan coopers highjack, the zodiac, jack the ripper, etc never would get very far today.....

In reviewing a few old Gacy interviews upon reading this post, you appear to have some keen insight.  Perhaps I'm the one that missed the mark actually.

He was not an appealing man, certainly by today's standards. He kind of had an air of a rubish dolt.  

Yes, a person that can't control their urges to the point of being murderous is pretty simple minded, "cave-man" if you will, or someone that hasn't evolved.

Like you said, "timing means a lot."  He was an aberration for that time, we know more now.

 

 

Edited by AnaK26

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Regi
On 2/13/2019 at 6:29 PM, AnaK26 said:

Parker's body was also exhumed but I don't think his family agreed to a test.

Why do you think that?

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the13bats
3 hours ago, AnaK26 said:

Adding to what you said in post 12,

I can relate to not wanting to dredge up emotinal trama and pain, i didnt read the details but perhaps parkers felt his identification was good enough for them,

However, in such cases we owe our fellow humans the possibility of closures for their missing loved ones, so in that parker should have been tested but that stirs the argument should all gacy victims be  exhumed and tested and a disheartening ponder of how many victims if other such cases are misidentfied.

"Aire of rubish dolt" pretty much nails gacy, he did have a twinkle of bloated ego, he didnt know or care he wasnt attractive in appearance, he came off to me like a low end used car salesman, the type who doesnt know much about cars and a week after you buy one from him the dmv calls to tell you the paperwork was filled out incorrectly, then when you call him to straightenit out he either blames you or doesnt remember you at all.

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Regi
6 hours ago, AnaK26 said:

I couldn't access that article, but I could read enough to understand why some of what you've said didn't make sense to me.

So the testing you've referred to is testing by the lab used by Marino...

And it was Marino who had the Parker grave exhumed by court order? :huh:

 

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AnaK26
12 hours ago, Regi said:

I couldn't access that article, but I could read enough to understand why some of what you've said didn't make sense to me.

So the testing you've referred to is testing by the lab used by Marino...

And it was Marino who had the Parker grave exhumed by court order? :huh:

 

Yes, and the Sheriff's department wants to compare Marino's results to a department ordered test through a lab through University of North TX.  Marino doesn't trust the Sheriff's department.

I don't know if if I'd trust the police either, if I went to them trying to report my child missing only to have them dismiss me and my child as a runaway.  But at the same time I think she's in denial that he's not alive.

Parker's family wouldn't participate.  Yes, she had body exhumed.  At the very least if the body wasn't a DNA match the department needs to test it to have it & entered into a missing persons database.

Edited by AnaK26
word omission forgot to answer question

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AnaK26
21 hours ago, AnaK26 said:
14 hours ago, the13bats said:

Adding to what you said in post 12,

I can relate to not wanting to dredge up emotinal trama and pain, i didnt read the details but perhaps parkers felt his identification was good enough for them,

However, in such cases we owe our fellow humans the possibility of closures for their missing loved ones, so in that parker should have been tested but that stirs the argument should all gacy victims be  exhumed and tested and a disheartening ponder of how many victims if other such cases are misidentfied.

"Aire of rubish dolt" pretty much nails gacy, he did have a twinkle of bloated ego, he didnt know or care he wasnt attractive in appearance, he came off to me like a low end used car salesman, the type who doesnt know much about cars and a week after you buy one from him the dmv calls to tell you the paperwork was filled out incorrectly, then when you call him to straightenit out he either blames you or doesnt remember you at all.

 

From a legal, departmental protocol, and humanitarian standpoint, they need to verify Parker's remains and for that matter all of those bodies if there appears to be a discrepancy.  Even if Marino is skeptical (which I would be too, if I & my child was brushed off by the department as a runaway after trying to report my missing child, & then the personal effects didn't match or DNA), department still needs to conduct their own test. And DNA entered into a database.  But I could empathize with Parker's family.  It's not like he's coming back even if his DNA isn't a match.

I gathered pretty much the same how you described Gacy.  When I'd watch him in true crime docs.  He'd try to explain away the odd smells in his house as related to his new puppy and mildew & that his victims as "they were queers that seduced him."  No accountability and certainly an ego to murder 33 teens without a thought.  He was very able to follow procedure, especially for the sake of making him look good, but "oh I have an urge for teenage boys, oh but can't be a perv, well, I can just bury these little punks, no one will ever know."  Problem solved.  Lowest life-form, so glad he's no longer with us.

 

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the13bats

I used to hire off duty LEOs i got to know a lot of "cops" most i knew were good guys but it never stops to amaze me how many times i watch a documentery or even read a news report and cant get past the way incompetence is trying to be covered by ego of the investigators,

The sad fact is i highly doubt anyone much cares about gacys victims at this point, its done hes dead they move on, its just very weird to me

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AnaK26
4 hours ago, the13bats said:

I used to hire off duty LEOs i got to know a lot of "cops" most i knew were good guys but it never stops to amaze me how many times i watch a documentery or even read a news report and cant get past the way incompetence is trying to be covered by ego of the investigators,

The sad fact is i highly doubt anyone much cares about gacys victims at this point, its done hes dead they move on, its just very weird to me

 It would seem to me one would have to have good critical thinking ability as well as street smarts to be a competent detective. 

 Can't get over the level of incompetence in govt bureaucracies in general, much less law enforcement depts.  That's why people hit up vigilantes or mafia in some cases or even DIY.

Maybe 40+ yrs, 33+murders, & 1 executed perp later, no one in the dept cares.  But someone cares, otherwise this forum wouldn't exist nor would we be having this conversation. ;)

 

Edited by AnaK26
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