Mexico border wall: Trump defends emergency

[+DieChecker]

4 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Nah, the 5 billion barely covered 100 more miles.  That was what made the whole thing so ludicrous.   People were acting like Trump was going to build an impregnable wall from coast to coast with that paltry sum.  

I'd agree myself that it was not an emergency. But Trump has painted himself into a corner, and pundits on the Right are forcing his hand, since they have so many loyal followers.

[+DieChecker]

6 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

That was after the court ruling against Trump though.  It kinda lost it's teeth since the original 25$ billion offer.

Yeah, that is true. But, I still think DACA is a target. Trump's protection would have real value.

[Gromdor]

4 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Yeah, that is true. But, I still think DACA is a target. Trump's protection would have real value.

Honestly, I don't think either party wants to resolve the DACA issue at this time.  They are both saving it to energize their bases at a later date.  The courts are keeping them safe in limbo for the moment, so there really isn't a rush. 

The border isn't the real problem.  Our immigration system is.  But various people have wildly varying ideas to fix it- and a lot of those ideas required a Constitutional amendment.

[Gromdor]

9 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I'd agree myself that it was not an emergency. But Trump has painted himself into a corner, and pundits on the Right are forcing his hand, since they have so many loyal followers.

I agree, he had to do the national emergency.  If he let things stand, then Pelosi would have outmaneuvered him.  With the national emergency route he can say he was thwarted by the 9th court of appeals.  It's the only route he had that saved face.

[+susieice]

Again, no words

 

[ellapenella]

10 hours ago, Gromdor said:

You might think they were bettering the US, but the US government thought they were just selling green cards and the opportunity for anchor baby citizenship for personal profit: https://thinkprogress.org/as-white-house-pushes-new-restrictions-kushner-under-scrutiny-for-issuing-green-cards-to-investors-27c8ad600b5e/

There is even investigations on whether Kushner used his political position to influence that program: https://www.newsweek.com/jared-kushner-company-visa-eb-5-1254829

So under this EB- 5  green-card deal , it allows for people from other countries to invest into the U.S in which they will become citizens in 2 years. 

What was coming into our country that was increasing our jobs ect.? 

[ellapenella]

10 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Honestly, I don't think either party wants to resolve the DACA issue at this time.  They are both saving it to energize their bases at a later date.  The courts are keeping them safe in limbo for the moment, so there really isn't a rush. 

The border isn't the real problem.  Our immigration system is.  But various people have wildly varying ideas to fix it- and a lot of those ideas required a Constitutional amendment.

That unconstitutional illegal move that Barry made will go before  the Supreme Court, while Donald Trump is President. Probably in his 2nd. term.

eta

 Are you the expert on the Country's border ? 

Edited February 19, 2019 by Ellapennella

[ellapenella]

Democrats got owned on funding for the wall Bongino explains how they don't realize it ,yet.

 

[Gromdor]

1 hour ago, Ellapennella said:

So under this EB- 5  green-card deal , it allows for people from other countries to invest into the U.S in which they will become citizens in 2 years. 

What was coming into our country that was increasing our jobs ect.? 

Yup, pay money and you can come into the US- just like other coyotes.  If you have a kid here they are American.    Jared and Ivanka got in trouble because they were using it to make money off that very purpose instead of for creating jobs for Americans.

Don't worry, though.  Because of Kushner they are looking at overhauling the EB-5 program because it is "riddled with fraud".  I personally didn't mind the Chinese coming over, becoming dual citizens, and having anchor babies.  https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/30/eb-5-investors-worry-us-visas-to-millionaires-may-soon-be-overhauled.html

59 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

That unconstitutional illegal move that Barry made will go before  the Supreme Court, while Donald Trump is President. Probably in his 2nd. term.

eta

 Are you the expert on the Country's border ? 

DACA/Supreme court news from last month: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/supreme-court-unlikely-hear-trump-daca-appeal-n960321

Forty Democrats voted into Congress this last election and you think Trump is getting a second term?  He's lost Iowa because of the China trade war already.

As for me being the expert?  If it was just a room with you and me in it, I would have to say that I would be the more knowledgeable one.  I've at least been to the border, have personally talked to numerous illegals that have crossed it, and have crossed it and other countries borders on fairly regular business trips with the wife.  

Edited February 19, 2019 by Gromdor
added link

[ellapenella]

15 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Yup, pay money and you can come into the US- just like other coyotes.  If you have a kid here they are American.    Jared and Ivanka got in trouble because they were using it to make money off that very purpose instead of for creating jobs for Americans.

Don't worry, though.  Because of Kushner they are looking at overhauling the EB-5 program because it is "riddled with fraud".  I personally didn't mind the Chinese coming over, becoming dual citizens, and having anchor babies.  https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/30/eb-5-investors-worry-us-visas-to-millionaires-may-soon-be-overhauled.html

DACA/Supreme court news from last month: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/supreme-court-unlikely-hear-trump-daca-appeal-n960321

Forty Democrats voted into Congress this last election and you think Trump is getting a second term?  He's lost Iowa because of the China trade war already.

As for me being the expert?  If it was just a room with you and me in it, I would have to say that I would be the more knowledgeable one.  I've at least been to the border, have personally talked to numerous illegals that have crossed it, and have crossed it and other countries borders on fairly regular business trips with the wife.  

 I don't want them to have dual citizenship either, they're communist. You do know that Jared and Ivanka annoyed a lot of Trump supporters, Trump supporters didn't vote for them, we voted for him. I  think they were  more on the Liberal side,  but are learning now . I'm thankful that Trump wasn't swayed by her at times. 

Yes Trump will be in office again.  You'll see, daca will be brought before the Supreme Court to decide.

 

 

[RavenHawk]

On 2/18/2019 at 11:33 AM, RavenHawk said:

Let’s say we spend the money to stop all the drugs and contraband at the Ports of Entry.  OK so far?  Where will the drugs go next?

 

I don’t think much thought needs to go into this for an answer and it was not specifically meant for @AgentOrange to answer but it was indeed meant to be answered.  I think we are all curious?

[Dark_Grey]

3 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

I don’t think much thought needs to go into this for an answer and it was not specifically meant for @AgentOrange to answer but it was indeed meant to be answered.  I think we are all curious?

The problem is that you have the CIA, technically it's own entity, running drugs from within the US Government as they have been for decades. It will be impossible to stop the flow of drugs until corrupt enablers in Washington are taken out. A million checkpoints and a 100 foot tall wall won't stop compromised agents from looking the other way.

 

[Katniss]

What about the demand? How do you stop the demand? As long as there is a demand, somebody somewhere is going to find a way to supply the demand.

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, Dark_Grey said:

The problem is that you have the CIA, technically it's own entity, running drugs from within the US Government as they have been for decades. It will be impossible to stop the flow of drugs until corrupt enablers in Washington are taken out. A million checkpoints and a 100 foot tall wall won't stop compromised agents from looking the other way.

Right.  Its a hard problem to fight.  How do you keep Border Security honest on government wages when they can make a month's pay in bribes for looking the other way for an hour? I believe CBP has already lowered standards and still can't get enough agents.  

[Dark_Grey]

2 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Right.  Its a hard problem to fight.  How do you keep Border Security honest on government wages when they can make a month's pay in bribes for looking the other way for an hour? I believe CBP has already lowered standards and still can't get enough agents.  

Greed is powerful. Almost every economic and social issue we have as a species can be boiled down to that one simple emotion. You could offer border security agents $100,000/month and there would still be some who would happily take a fat wad of cash to go on an "extended bathroom break".

[Tatetopa]

27 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Greed is powerful. Almost every economic and social issue we have as a species can be boiled down to that one simple emotion. You could offer border security agents $100,000/month and there would still be some who would happily take a fat wad of cash to go on an "extended bathroom break".

Yeah you are so right. .  Does technology offer a solution?  Can we design a system that will prevent greed from determining behavior, I sure don't know.  I hate to think we are stuck with it for the rest of human existence..

[Dark_Grey]

22 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Yeah you are so right. Does technology offer a solution? Can we design a system that will prevent greed from determining behavior, I sure don't know.  I hate to think we are stuck with it for the rest of human existence..

Until we evolve all that leftover monkey DNA, tribalism and greed are here to stay.

[Black Red Devil]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

Yeah you are so right. .  Does technology offer a solution?  Can we design a system that will prevent greed from determining behavior, I sure don't know.  I hate to think we are stuck with it for the rest of human existence..

Yep, Socialism the proper way.  No rich or poor, no owners or subservients,  A system where everyone contributes equally and everything is free.  Give or take another 1000 years and we might get there. 

[Dark_Grey]

15 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Yep, Socialism the proper way.  No rich or poor, no owners or subservients,  A system where everyone contributes equally and everything is free.  Give or take another 1000 years and we might get there. 

There is a simple reason why it only works in theory. Socialism doesn't have safe guards for natural human tendencies like tribalism and greed which is why it always ends up the same way: the people are persuaded to practice Socialism while the elite class controls the resources and Lords over them. That's not because of Socialism, that always happens in spite of Socialism. We have natural hierarchies embedded in us that can't be ignored and someone will always be there to fill that alpha position. Socialist countries seem to use violence to restore the power balance between classes because I don't think there is any other way to do it under that system. If all the people agree to share wealth evenly but the elites and the oligarchs suddenly refuse to give up their share, what do you do now? The people are equally poor and the elites get to tell them how great Socialism is. If there was no such thing as greed or lust for power, I would say let's make this bish Socialist tomorrow. But that's just not the world we live in.

The beauty of free market capitalism is that it doesn't matter what your alpha tendencies are, every one has the same opportunity to become wealthy and powerful. The resources aren't given to a bigger body to distribute, the resources are just laying on the ground waiting to be picked up by hard working individuals. The rich and the elite will still be there but guess what: now you have the chance to join them one day. You don't see many entrepreneurs driving Lamborghinis under Socialism. Capitalism is the best we can do with the caveman DNA we still have. IMO, anyway.

 

[ellapenella]

On 2/17/2019 at 9:14 AM, aztek said:

so all you need to attack us civilians is to brand them terrorists, for protecting their homes? thanks for proving my point, that us army WILL fire on civilians, unlike many here believe.

btw seems like in this case YOU ARE the terrorist, not civilian population, no wonder dems want to take guns away. it has nothing to do with mass shotings

Yeah that and they don't want to ever secure the country's border. I don't know why the opposition continues to suggest that we don't need a strong barrier along areas of the southern border where it is needed. I hope there's not  a conspiracy on controlling the world the way that China controls it's people. 

Radio guy the other day mentioned how 2 guys he knew from Venezuela said to him that the U.S better keep and protect the 2nd. amendment. 

 

 

 

 

 

[aztek]

On 2/17/2019 at 9:33 AM, DieChecker said:

No way!! What we should do is hire 100,000 of those who seek entry (out of 350,000-400,000 per year who try), and have THEM guard the border. Pay them maybe 100,000 a year, and fire them for any minor issue. With them knowing they will be fired for minor issues, they'll be crazy honest, and eventually they'll be incorruptible, and fanatical guard the border.

Or, hire 100,000 of them for $15 an hour... PLUS... give them a $100 bonus for EVERY illegal they can prove that they turned away, or captured. Imagine trucks of guys out trying to capture a "caravan" of 100 people out in the deep deserts... That would be a $10,000 payday for someone.

Capitalism......

we had similar incentives in Vietnam, soldiers ended up cutting ears of women and kids, who were not fighting.  

[ellapenella]

 

?

Edited February 20, 2019 by Ellapennella

[ellapenella]

On 2/19/2019 at 2:23 PM, RavenHawk said:

 

 

I'd like to understand what  you  are confused about?

eta

Is it in reference to China's surveillance ?  

Edited February 20, 2019 by Ellapennella

[Tatetopa]

5 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

The beauty of free market capitalism is that it doesn't matter what your alpha tendencies are, every one has the same opportunity to become wealthy and powerful. The resources aren't given to a bigger body to distribute, the resources are just laying on the ground waiting to be picked up by hard working individuals. The rich and the elite will still be there but guess what: now you have the chance to join them one day.

All true, but I am not so sure hard work is the gateway anymore.  You can certainly better your position, but you may not join the elites,  In a way that idea keeps people in line and working.  It may not be much more probable than winning the lottery, but it is a dream.  Meanwhile if you are smart, you will at least secure a moderate future for your family.

[ellapenella]

When democrats or anyone says that the U.S  does not need a wall along the southern border but what the U.S needs is more technology along the southern border how long would it be till technology is misused in an overwhelming invasive way is what I consider whenever I hear them state that all we need is more technology. 

I understand that technology is needed but I also understand that so is a wall. What I don't understand is how anyone can figure that all we need is the technology, makes me skeptical of their intentions.