Mexico border wall: Trump defends emergency

[toast]

14 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

As President he has access to many more sources than you or I will ever have.  

Thats for sure but the question is if he ever understands the data, which I doubt.

[ellapenella]

On 2/21/2019 at 4:57 PM, RavenHawk said:

That’s a “sad” emojicon .  I’m sad because I like your post.  I’m sad because this is what the Progs eventually want here.  Minority Report is just around the corner.

 

Oh dear,  I apologize.

I can't believe how they in China have digital boxes over their heads [sic] stating status  good or bad or traveling to work or home from work or store.

The smirks on some faces when they say  that all we need it technology and that we don't need a wall .

[aztek]

Quote

So Hollywood put up this barrier to keep unauthorized people out in preparation for the Academy Awards in order to protect the stars from danger so that they can tell America why walls and barriers are wrong and immoral. Hmmm.

taken from FB

[RavenHawk]

3 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

The smirks on some faces when they say  that all we need it technology and that we don't need a wall .

This goes a long way to reveal the difference in mindsets between Conservatives and Progressives.  A Conservative goes off the old adage that walls make for good neighbors for protection.  Progs are thinking of having a large State Police to keep people in line because they will need cogs (slaves) to serve them.  What do slaves need with a Constitution?  Eventually, they will have to confiscate people’s passports to prevent them from leaving the country.  They’ll need to start building walls to keep people in.  People will have stopped trying to enter the country if they ever institute a Stasi.  And is there anybody that doesn’t believe that this will be the progression of events if the Progressives take absolute control?  It is the progression of history.

[Tatetopa]

4 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

This goes a long way to reveal the difference in mindsets between Conservatives and Progressives.  A Conservative goes off the old adage that walls make for good neighbors for protection.  Progs are thinking of having a large State Police to keep people in line because they will need cogs (slaves) to serve them.  What do slaves need with a Constitution?  Eventually, they will have to confiscate people’s passports to prevent them from leaving the country.  They’ll need to start building walls to keep people in.  People will have stopped trying to enter the country if they ever institute a Stasi.  And is there anybody that doesn’t believe that this will be the progression of events if the Progressives take absolute control?  It is the progression of history.

Finally you have convinced me.  Just build a wall.  No electronics.  No additional border patrol officers that might work for the state.  That would just make us progressive slaves.   Just a big tall beautiful unmanned wall.  If you ask for anything more you would be part of the progressive cabal building a wall to keep US citizens from leaving.

[+DieChecker]

6 hours ago, aztek said:

taken from FB

You'd think a camera and a guy in a shed 10 miles away would be enough. 

That fence isn't going to stop anyone. Maybe it will discourage people from trying though. Or at least turn them toward some point of entry. 

[Buzz_Light_Year]

17 hours ago, aztek said:

taken from FB

Don't forget the 4 miles of fence the DNC erected in Philly in 2016 to keep protestors out.

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Don't forget the 4 miles of fence the DNC erected in Philly in 2016 to keep protestors out.

LOL man I have been enjoying watching folks talk about a half acre of fencing and 2k miles of fencing as if theyre the same thing

That argument amigo is truly a preaching to the choir one ....the rest of us are just laughing at it

[Buzz_Light_Year]

11 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

LOL man I have been enjoying watching folks talk about a half acre of fencing and 2k miles of fencing as if theyre the same thing

That argument amigo is truly a preaching to the choir one ....the rest of us are just laughing at it

Laugh all you want, but the main goal for both fences are to keep out people you don't want in. If you can't comprehend that then the joke is on you.

[Farmer77]

4 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Laugh all you want, but the main goal for both fences are to keep out people you don't want in. If you can't comprehend that then the joke is on you.

Im totally for strategically located barriers. Just not the whole screw the environment build 2k miles of wall thing homie was trying to do. 

Now its morphed into a constitutional issue which is quite amusing in its own right, if slightly terrifying.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

39 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Im totally for strategically located barriers. Just not the whole screw the environment build 2k miles of wall thing homie was trying to do. 

Now its morphed into a constitutional issue which is quite amusing in its own right, if slightly terrifying.

The Constitutional power of the president has already been decided by the SCOTUS giving the president the power to restrict any class of alien from entering the U.S.

United States Code > Title 8 > Chapter 12 > Section 1182(f) "Inadmissable Aliens"

Quote

 

Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President

Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.

 

Chief Justice John Roberts majority opinion.

Quote

By its terms, §1182(f) exudes deference to the President in every clause. It entrusts to the President the decisions whether and when to suspend entry (“[w]henever [he] finds that the entry” of aliens “would be detrimental” to the national interest); whose entry to suspend (“all aliens or any class of aliens”); for how long (“for such period as he shall deem necessary”); and on what conditions (“any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate”).

It is therefore unsurprising that we have previously observed that §1182(f) vests the President with “ample power” to impose entry restrictions in addition to those elsewhere enumerated in the INA (finding it “perfectly clear” that the President could “establish a naval blockade” to prevent illegal migrants from entering the United States).

The sole prerequisite set forth in §1182(f) is that the President “find[]” that the entry of the covered aliens “would be detrimental to the interests of the United States.”

The president has the authority to build the wall and also has the funds available without the approval of Congress. He can do this by EO. Pelosi knows full well that the President has this authority and that was why she made the statement about a future President using it for gun control.

So to be clear there isn't a Constitutional crisis here, just a pouting Congress and a pouting President.

[Farmer77]

17 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

he president has the authority to build the wall and also has the funds available without the approval of Congress. He can do this by EO. Pelosi knows full well that the President has this authority and that was why she made the statement about a future President using it for gun control.

So to be clear there isn't a Constitutional crisis here, just a pouting Congress and a pouting President.

I was solely speaking of the purse power.

Thats whats been amusing. Watching conservatives work themselves in knots trying to justify Trump violating the constitution by bypassing congress' purse power.

Its also whats been terrifying. Ive always (perhaps naively)  looked to the conservative community as the last line of defense of the constitution and from tyranny in general. 

As for Pelosi "knowing he has that power" thats not quite accurate. He is trying to give himself that power and she was right, although I think healthcare and education are more appropriate comparisons because of the necessity to raid the treasury like the wall, if he and his cronies land in front of an activist judge and are somehow able to get away with bypassing the constitution on this matter then the precedent will have been set. All future POTUS' will have to do is declare an emergency and POOF they will be able to spend our tax dollars however they like.

I think theres a term for that and I dont think its representative democracy.

 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Farmer77

[Gromdor]

3 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Laugh all you want, but the main goal for both fences are to keep out people you don't want in. If you can't comprehend that then the joke is on you.

You really should post some pictures of a fence that worked.  Protesters got inside of the 2016 DNC in Philly. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/dnc-2016-protest-convention-democrats-latest-news-arrests-hillary-clinton-black-lives-matter-a7159501.html

Seven people in one day with hundreds of police officers guarding.

Not to mention these protestors who were already inside: http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/07/protesters-make-mayhem-during-hillarys-speech.html

and weren't deterred or hindered by the fence at all.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

2 hours ago, Gromdor said:

You really should post some pictures of a fence that worked.  Protesters got inside of the 2016 DNC in Philly. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/dnc-2016-protest-convention-democrats-latest-news-arrests-hillary-clinton-black-lives-matter-a7159501.html

Seven people in one day with hundreds of police officers guarding.

Not to mention these protestors who were already inside: http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/07/protesters-make-mayhem-during-hillarys-speech.html

and weren't deterred or hindered by the fence at all.

Fences and Walls are deterrents and nobody in their right mind would think that they can effectively keep all people out or all people in.
 

[Katniss]

9 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Fences and Walls are deterrents and nobody in their right mind would think that they can effectively keep all people out or all people in.
 

That's a good point. I've had police and locksmiths tell me the same thing about a strong lock on the door. Locks are just deterrents if anything, but if anybody wants to really get into your house they'll find a way to get in.

[Farmer77]

It is comforting for the sake of America and the constitution that our checks and balances appear to be working:

 

Trump on brink of defeat on border emergency

Quote

President Donald Trump is on the verge of a bipartisan rejection of his emergency declaration at the border in what would be an embarrassing rebuke by a Congress opposed to his immigration agenda.

Sen. Thom Tillis (R-N.C.) on Monday night said he would join Republican Sens. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Susan Collins of Maine, along with 47 Senate Democrats to block Trump’s attempts to secure billions for his border wall after lawmakers effectively stiffed him. Now just one more GOP senator’s support for a resolution to block Trump's bid would send the measure to Trump’s desk and force a veto.

 

[ian hacktorp]

1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

It is comforting for the sake of America and the constitution that our checks and balances appear to be working:

The thing is, the wall is being built as we speak and Trump has various sources of funding at his disposal to build it.

So, in reality, all of this hoo-ha about the state of emergency is just a distraction...a canard tossed out there by Trump to keep his detractors busy looking in the wrong direction while he gets things done.

Trump sent you off on a snipe hunt...feel foolish yet?

Edited February 26, 2019 by hacktorp

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, hacktorp said:

The thing is, the wall is being built as we speak and Trump has various sources of funding at his disposal to build it.

So, in reality, all of this hoo-ha about the state of emergency is a distraction...a canard tossed out there by Trump to keep his detractors looking in the wrong direction while he gets things done.

Trump sent you off on a snipe hunt...feel foolish yet?

Haha that is some wonderful spin . Again the god like faith is simply fascinating

Just for the record though ill never ever feel foolish for worrying about the sanctity of the constitution.

[Farmer77]

11 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Trump sent you off on a snipe hunt...feel foolish yet?

I wasnt gonna post a link because I know facts arent really your thing but your boy is lying to you.

Trump Claims His Wall Is Being Built. It’s Just a Replacement of Old Barriers.

Quote

 

President Trump has been eager to show progress on construction of his long-promised wall on the border with Mexico. So eager that on Wednesday he sent a tweet showing the building of steel fencing in southern New Mexico with the video sped up to add a sense of both efficiency and urgency.

He retweeted himself on Thursday with the all-caps proclamation “THE WALL IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION RIGHT NOW!”

This is misleading.

The government has built about 700 miles of wall and fencing along the border since 2006. The barriers, damaged by migrants trying to get through them or by the elements, need periodic repairs.

The section of the barrier that Mr. Trump showcased this week was not new construction, but rather replacement for existing fencing. The money for the steel-slatted barrier came from a congressional appropriation in 2017, not from newly authorized spending in the recent deal that averted a government shutdown, or from money the president is seeking to take from other federal projects under his national emergency declaration from last week.

.....feel foolish yet ?

Edited February 26, 2019 by Farmer77

[ian hacktorp]

19 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

.....feel foolish yet ?

Lol...you just cited NYT...a worthless rag that lost its credibility many, many months ago for not verifying their stories.

No, I don't feel foolish.

But you should.  Again.

[Farmer77]

Just now, hacktorp said:

Lol...you just cited NYT...a worthless rag that lost its credibility many, many months ago for not verifying their stories.

No, I don't feel foolish.

But you should.  Again.

Like I said i know facts arent your thing.....but hey it was worth a shot to try and share them anyways. I used to believe a bunch of silliness as well.

[ian hacktorp]

5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I used to believe a bunch of silliness as well.

I'm not having a hard time accepting that.

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, hacktorp said:

The thing is, the wall is being built as we speak and Trump has various sources of funding at his disposal to build it.

So, in reality, all of this hoo-ha about the state of emergency is just a distraction...a canard tossed out there by Trump to keep his detractors busy looking in the wrong direction while he gets things done.

Trump sent you off on a snipe hunt...feel foolish yet?

Wow that is a wonderful windup for a democracy.,The government is so dysfunctional that they are playing tricks on each other.  I hope you don't have kids buddy.  This would be a sad state to leave them as a legacy.  Probably too late to even build a wall now, this may be on its way to becoming a banana republic.  Figured out yet what Donald Trump's title will be?   Are you gonna call him Dear Leader or El Jefe?

[Gromdor]

8 hours ago, hacktorp said:

Lol...you just cited NYT...a worthless rag that lost its credibility many, many months ago for not verifying their stories.

No, I don't feel foolish.

But you should.  Again.

You know, you are the third person I've seen this past week on this forum that has been conditioned to reject all news sources they disagree with.  All three of you have been Trump supporters as well.  I'm beginning to think that TDS is a real thing at this point. 

[ian hacktorp]

8 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Wow that is a wonderful windup for a democracy.

Did you not know the US is a constitutional republic?  Ignorance of this fact is rampant these days.

8 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Are you gonna call him Dear Leader or El Jefe?

I kinda like "El Toupee".