Mexico border wall: Trump defends emergency

[+and-then]

14 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Shades of the Obama birther conspiracies, perhaps 

I don't really care what her history is.  I care about the fact that she spits on a nation that literally saved her life and gave her a home.  Third eye candidate for sure...

[+and-then]

5 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Not that I don't like midwesterners, it is those that move to Albuquerque and pretend like they know the culture, which they don't.

I visited once, briefly.  I loved the ride up to Sandia peak and the restaurant at the top    I must say, though, I was puzzled by the whole "Red or Green" question at that time 

[Tatetopa]

23 minutes ago, and then said:

There was no commentary AT ALL.  He was their golden child who could do no wrong.  Trump catches hell for breathing.  And he still gets work done that infuriates them despite their attempts to block him.  MAGA 2020 and beyond!

Are you talking about Obama the "Deporter in chief"?  There was a fair amount of press coverage about that.  

Sorry andthen, I can't see that he is doing a lot of work.  He had two years of total Republican control and still has the Senate to back him up.  Where is the barrier?  Where is infrastructure?  Why is it hew makes such an issue about illegal immigrants yet your so called golden boy can  deport 5 million illegal immigrants, with by the way a lot of name calling and opposition. Granted that was only half as many as President Bush and Bill Clinton. with no friendlier Congresses.  I believe Bill Clinton was even impeached was he not and he still got the job done.  Truth is I think a lot of people like the way he talks and that is enough for them.

[Tatetopa]

55 minutes ago, pixiii said:

Tell me if I'm not understanding this properly please as I could be looking at this too black and white:

The hardest part for me is to understand is how a US Farmer can continue to pay cash to illegal immigrants simply because he is too cheap to pay proper wages/can't afford it etc and hence takes jobs and employment from his own country's citizens.  

I do understand the Farmer's are sometimes in dire need of aid as the same thing happens here.  However, I find it a tad rude that people treat illegal immigrants like this, even though the immigrants WANT TO WORK as the cash wages they'd receive would be worth a lot more in their own country etc. 

The farmer obviously knows he shouldn't employ illegal immigrants but he does it because he can't afford proper wages.  The other sad part is related to the illegal immigrants - the Farmer sees them as needy enough, where the Farmer is exploiting the illegal immigrant in a way by paying the illegal immigrant cheap wages, like they're not worth of any more or equal pay (which of course they aren't, because they're an illegal immigrant).  This is a perpetually vicious circle that never gets fixed.  

Metaphorically speaking, it's like leaving scraps out for some birds or ducks at the park......once they realise they're going to get fed, they keep coming back, not just by themselves, but in huge droves as this example shares the same common characteristics as the Farmers who continue to support paying cheap wages to the illegal immigrants.  And around the circle goes again.    (Yes, I've likened illegal immigrants to birds/ducks there but you get the drift of what I'm saying).  

I think that is the gist of it. I am only one opinion though, some others may weigh in.  To me it sounds like greed and self interest and disregard for other people, but somehow there may be more to it.

[Gromdor]

  I remember when Obama raided a meat packing plant here in Iowa and caught 400.  They charged the owner with 9,311 counts of violating child labor laws. (dropped of course).  Trump ended up commuting his sentence in 2017 for his other crimes.  The eye opener in that raid was the fact that the company itself was the one giving the illegals social security numbers so they could work.  But yeah, the guy throwing the sugar down to attract all these workers got a slap on the wrist.

  The town's whole livelihood was built around that plant and the illegals that worked there.  It took about ten years, but it is starting to recover now.  The irony is now that the plant is under new ownership, they started hiring Somali refugees to fill the personnel gap. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriprocessors#Aaron_Rubashkin,_Sholom_Rubashkin,_Billmeyer,_Althouse,_and_Freund

[RavenHawk]

8 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

What ever you did to embarrass yourself is your problem.

Agreed.  Allowing you to move into *MY* city from the East Cost is upsetting.  We have enough in Rio Rancho.

 

Based on this I am guessing you are a transplant from the midwest,

You couldn’t be more wrong.  I grew up in the South Valley, went to Rio Grande, and I even grag-e-ated from there.

 

you probably even think Madrid is pronounced "Maaaadrid". 

Madrid actually has three pronunciations.  The one you refer to came about sometime in the 60s or 70s when the hippies moved in.  Most call it MA-drid.  Another but rarely used version is with a sharp accent on the “i”.  Oddly enough, I was there last weekend.  So what’s your point?

 

You guess wrong about me being a liberal and I find it funny that any time someone disagrees with certain groups of people they use that as their starting point, calling someone a liberal or a right-wing. 

I can only judge by your words and arrogant dismissiveness,

 

It is a weak place to start a discussion or even an argument, name calling. 

I’m only returning in kind.  Maybe you should blow the stink off of yourself?

 

My politics has nothing to do with the neighborhood I live in, that is the best part of living in Albuquerque, there are no "neighborhoods" based on anything but finances and/or desire to live in a certain area.

There are many neighborhoods based on party affiliation and they are mostly Progressive.  After all, we are a sanctuary city but many seem hopeful that this can change.

 

P.S.  I don't' know any one local who uses the term "Burquenos"

There are a few.  I don’t usually use it but I have to admit that it rolls off the tongue better than “Albuquerqueans”.  It is mostly a liberal word and I use it for your benefit.

[+Desertrat56]

12 hours ago, and then said:

This just isn't true.  They receive housing, medical, and food stamps.  Their children get an education - including deference to their native language in many cases.  And whether the Left admits it or not, it has always been that way.  No one comes here and lives as a breatharian.  

Maybe in your state, but not in mine.  They get locked up until the paperwork clears, then they get assistance finding a job and a place to live, they do not get food stamps.  And Yes their children get an education.  It is the law of the land, you either send your children to public school, home school them with a lot of paperwork to prove it, or you pay for a private school.

[+Desertrat56]

12 hours ago, and then said:

I visited once, briefly.  I loved the ride up to Sandia peak and the restaurant at the top    I must say, though, I was puzzled by the whole "Red or Green" question at that time 

Yep, the question is "Red or Green?" and a valid answer is "Christmas".  Referring to Red Chile or Green Chile.  Christmas means both.  If you don't like spicy the proper answer is "none"

[RavenHawk]

13 hours ago, pixiii said:

my Husband first moved to Australia from the USA, he missed Taco Bell like crazy!  Then we tried the Mexican food restaurants here and he quickly became bitterly disappointed in the quality and authenticity. 

Taco Bell is authentic Mexican Food?   You are welcome to come to Albuquerque sometime, maybe in October for the Balloon Fiesta.  You can sample real Mexican food (more specifically, Sonoran or New Mexican).

[+Desertrat56]

9 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Agreed.  Allowing you to move into *MY* city from the East Cost is upsetting.  We have enough in Rio Rancho.

 

 

 

You couldn’t be more wrong.  I grew up in the South Valley, went to Rio Grande, and I even grag-e-ated from there.

 

 

 

Madrid actually has three pronunciations.  The one you refer to came about sometime in the 60s or 70s when the hippies moved in.  Most call it MA-drid.  Another but rarely used version is with a sharp accent on the “i”.  Oddly enough, I was there last weekend.  So what’s your point?

 

 

 

I can only judge by your words and arrogant dismissiveness,

 

 

 

I’m only returning in kind.  Maybe you should blow the stink off of yourself?

 

 

 

There are many neighborhoods based on party affiliation and they are mostly Progressive.  After all, we are a sanctuary city but many seem hopeful that this can change.

 

 

 

There are a few.  I don’t usually use it but I have to admit that it rolls off the tongue better than “Albuquerqueans”.  It is mostly a liberal word and I use it for your benefit.

I was born and raised in Albuquerque.  The city is obviously NOT yours. 

Graduating from any high school in Albuquerque after 1990 is nothing to brag about.  What education have you gotten after high school?

My point is you are young and ignorant accusing me of being a liberal from Nob Hill.  At least you do prove you are from here with your comment about the pronunciation of Madrid. 

No, everyone in Albuquerque lives where they want to and it has nothing to do with politics.  If you live in an area where everyone thinks like you, you lucked out because that is not a thing here, just like it is not a thing for "whites", "hispanics" and "blacks" to live in different neighborhoods.  The thing here is rich, middle class and poor.  Those are the neighborhoods, with a few gated neighborhoods for the people who move here from elsewhere.

You are another person calling people liberal when you don't understand what they say or disagree.  It is immature and based in ignorance.  Calling names is weak.  Give me a better argument than accusing me of being liberal because I am Not liberal, nor any other extreme.  And yes I am arrogant sometimes as you have shown yourself to be. 

 

 

 

[RavenHawk]

23 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Maybe in your state, but not in mine.  They get locked up until the paperwork clears, then they get assistance finding a job and a place to live, they do not get food stamps.  And Yes their children get an education.  It is the law of the land, you either send your children to public school, home school them with a lot of paperwork to prove it, or you pay for a private school.

They get locked up here?  Really?  You do know what catch and release is?  They do get public assistance.  They are everywhere here.  This is a sanctuary state.  It is against the law for authorities to ask the legal status of someone applying for whatever.  It is fraud committed against Americans.  I know several.  And I keep encouraging them to do it right.  If they need sponsorship, I would be glad to help out.  I keep telling them that if they don’t deal with this, sooner or later the law will catch up to them, at the very least it will be karma.

Edited July 19, 2019 by RavenHawk

[+Desertrat56]

4 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

They get locked up here?  Really?  You do know what catch and release is?  They do get public assistance.  They are everywhere here.  This is a sanctuary state.  It is against the law for authorities to ask the legal status of someone applying for whatever.  It is fraud committed against Americans.  I know several.  And I keep encouraging them to do it right.  If they need sponsorship, I would be glad to help out.  I keep telling them that if they don’t deal with this, sooner or later the law will catch up to them, at the very least is will be karma.

 

Where???   Are you daft?  You have never lived in Texas or east of New Mexico if you think "they are everywehre".  Maybe in Las Cruces during spring and summer.  There is no work for them here so they do not stay.   Are you watching Fox News and CNN?  Like I said before leave your neighborhood and get face to face with real people.

[+Desertrat56]

8 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

They get locked up here?  Really?  You do know what catch and release is?  They do get public assistance.  They are everywhere here.  This is a sanctuary state.  It is against the law for authorities to ask the legal status of someone applying for whatever.  It is fraud committed against Americans.  I know several.  And I keep encouraging them to do it right.  If they need sponsorship, I would be glad to help out.  I keep telling them that if they don’t deal with this, sooner or later the law will catch up to them, at the very least it will be karma.

Wait, I stand corrected.  You said you grew up in the South Valley.  Have you ever left the South Valley?  Yes there are some illegals in that area.  My mother taught at a school there and the gangs are bad.  But it is not like that in the rest of the city.  And those gangs are mostly from California and some may be related to the drug cartels, but it is not like that show Breaking Bad, that is entertainment.

[RavenHawk]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

I was born and raised in Albuquerque.  The city is obviously NOT yours.

Then I guess your assumption was wrong.

 

raduating from any high school in Albuquerque after 1990 is nothing to brag about.  What education have you gotten after high school?

I was just stating a fact.  And I graduated in ’77.  I just have a bachelors, but that was long ago.

 

My point is you are young and ignorant accusing me of being a liberal from Nob Hill.  At least you do prove you are from here with your comment about the pronunciation of Madrid. 

As I said before, all I have to go on are your statements and they reek of liberalism, whether you actively identify as one or not.

 

No, everyone in Albuquerque lives where they want to and it has nothing to do with politics.  If you live in an area where everyone thinks like you, you lucked out because that is not a thing here, just like it is not a thing for "whites", "hispanics" and "blacks" to live in different neighborhoods.  The thing here is rich, middle class and poor.  Those are the neighborhoods, with a few gated neighborhoods for the people who move here from elsewhere.

People try to live where they want as any other place in the country but that is not always possible.  Neighborhoods can be segregated by class, race, or politics.  Why do they call it sNob Hill?  That is where all the Subarus are found.  During election season, you can walk anywhere in Nob Hill, and there will be campaign signs in almost every yard and it’ll almost always be for the Progressive.  But some place like San Jose is predominately poor Hispanics.  Someone moving in from the East Coast doesn’t select San Jose to live in.  Where I live, we and the three houses directly across the street are the only ones on the street that fly the flag (US) on holidays and I never see a campaign sign.  It is very diversified but ultimately political.

 

You are another person calling people liberal when you don't understand what they say or disagree. 

Of course, I disagree with liberals, what else should I label them as?  If you think I don’t understand then show me something that will change my mind.

 

It is immature and based in ignorance.  Calling names is weak. 

I’m not the one that starts with the names but when confronted, I will return in kind and rub your nose in it.

 

Give me a better argument than accusing me of being liberal because I am Not liberal, nor any other extreme. 

What better argument than your own words?  The giveaway is that you claim not to be of any extreme.  That is a tell-tale sign of a liberal.

 

And yes I am arrogant sometimes as you have shown yourself to be. 

Never stated that I wasn’t.  I am very arrogant but I stay consistent.

[+Desertrat56]

21 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Then I guess your assumption was wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

I was just stating a fact.  And I graduated in ’77.  I just have a bachelors, but that was long ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I said before, all I have to go on are your statements and they reek of liberalism, whether you actively identify as one or not.

 

 

 

 

 

People try to live where they want as any other place in the country but that is not always possible.  Neighborhoods can be segregated by class, race, or politics.  Why do they call it sNob Hill?  That is where all the Subarus are found.  During election season, you can walk anywhere in Nob Hill, and there will be campaign signs in almost every yard and it’ll almost always be for the Progressive.  But some place like San Jose is predominately poor Hispanics.  Someone moving in from the East Coast doesn’t select San Jose to live in.  Where I live, we and the three houses directly across the street are the only ones on the street that fly the flag (US) on holidays and I never see a campaign sign.  It is very diversified but ultimately political.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, I disagree with liberals, what else should I label them as?  If you think I don’t understand then show me something that will change my mind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’m not the one that starts with the names but when confronted, I will return in kind and rub your nose in it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What better argument than your own words?  The giveaway is that you claim not to be of any extreme.  That is a tell-tale sign of a liberal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Never stated that I wasn’t.  I am very arrogant but I stay consistent.

 

What name did I call you before you called me a liberal that lived in nob hill?  You were originally responding to a post I made that was not directed at you so you are getting overly emotional about something and I have no clue what it is.  Also, I don't feel the need to go back and research it.  If you have something to say about something I posted then say it without calling names or accusing me of something you know nothing about.  My first response to you was a knee jerk response to being called liberal.  So, instead of calling names, address exactly what it is you object to. Be specific.

I know you and I have different experiences and your first response to me was so immature I assumed you were 20 something.  I was wrong.  You are only 3 years younger than I and obviously very angry about something. 

[RavenHawk]

4 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Where???   Are you daft?  You have never lived in Texas or east of New Mexico

If your definition of “live” is at least 6 months, then no, I haven’t lived anywhere else.  Do I need to, to know that illegals are everywhere?  I have been to many places, even Europe.

 

if you think "they are everywehre". 

I don’t think, I know.  I have family and friends everywhere.  When we compare notes, that is one of the subjects.  Where do you think the millions of catch & release go to?

 

Maybe in Las Cruces during spring and summer. 

You know it isn’t that bad down there in the winter.  You do know that the border check point at mile marker 28 on I25 is closed?  The flood gates are wide open.

 

There is no work for them here so they do not stay.  

No work?  There have been numerous times I’ve seen where empty lots on Central are staging areas for illegals to get work.  A truck shows up and as many as can, pile into the bed.  Money changers cashing checks without ID for a small fee and food trucks can also be seen.

 

Are you watching Fox News and CNN? 

That would be very conflicting.

 

Like I said before leave your neighborhood and get face to face with real people.

That’s what I’ve been telling you.

[+Desertrat56]

You are confused and making stuff up.  Those people on central getting picked up by a truck are not all illegal, most of them are homeless.  As for never living anywhere else that is part of your problem.  You have a narrow experience with the world.  As for those jobs that people wait for a truck to pick them up, that is not a real job and no one can sustain themselves that way.  There are very few jobs for people who have no legal status in this area.  I mentioned that in Las Cruces there are plenty of farm labor jobs in spring and summer.  I don't know what you were talking about the winter in Las Cruces for.

I do understand that if you live in the south valley you have a different experience of Albuquerque than the people living elsewhere in the city but you seem to have a chip on your shoulder and you never mentioned what it is you are really angry about so don't bother answering me.  There is no reason for us to go on like this.  Have a good weekend.

[lightly]

The border between Mexico and the U.S.  Is in the exact center of the Rio Grand ....by the time someone reaches the shore they are IN the U.S.     ....where they can say...nice looking wall. Is it new?

      What happens then?   Arrested for illegal entry?...or can they request asylum? ...

signed,   just curious.

Edited July 20, 2019 by lightly

[Tatetopa]

On 7/18/2019 at 7:06 PM, and then said:

I care about the fact that she spits on a nation that literally saved her life and gave her a home.  Third eye candidate for sure...

I wonder about that andthen.  Is it fact or not.  Is it recorded for evidence or is it  an anecdote by the President to get the crowd fired up at the pep rally?  

I lived through the Vietnam era, I do know that some natural born citizens act as if they hate the country of their birth.   Thing is, I don't know if the Congresswoman's remarks are factual or fabricated.   It sure makes for a great statement to focus anger and rage, real or not. Some don't buy into the hate and anger and division that seems to be the current governing strategy.   It is just the way I see  what is happening to our country and the promise of the  Constitution and Bill of Rights and whether they are honored as guiding principles.

“Patriotism means to stand by the country. ... It is patriotic to support him in so far as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country.” (President Theodore Roosevelt, 1918.)

 

[+DieChecker]

20 hours ago, lightly said:

The border between Mexico and the U.S.  Is in the exact center of the Rio Grand ....by the time someone reaches the shore they are IN the U.S.     ....where they can say...nice looking wall. Is it new?

      What happens then?   Arrested for illegal entry?...or can they request asylum? ...

signed,   just curious.

I'm sure there will be laws about that.

Probably if legislation by Democrats, the swimmer will be given a medal, and then invited into the US as a guest. And then used for political gain, and to justify government spending. While he's living at the bottom level of poverty. Listening to promises that never happen, but afraid to not support them for fear of deportation. Poverty and fear. And being used.

The Republicans would just give the man a floaty, and tell him to swim back and then go to an official point of entry. And bring any paperwork you have with you. Come in legally and try the best you can without fear.

Who's doing that immigrant a bigger favor?

[Gromdor]

58 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I'm sure there will be laws about that.

Probably if legislation by Democrats, the swimmer will be given a medal, and then invited into the US as a guest. And then used for political gain, and to justify government spending. While he's living at the bottom level of poverty. Listening to promises that never happen, but afraid to not support them for fear of deportation. Poverty and fear. And being used.

The Republicans would just give the man a floaty, and tell him to swim back and then go to an official point of entry. And bring any paperwork you have with you. Come in legally and try the best you can without fear.

Who's doing that immigrant a bigger favor?

There is already laws about that.  They can claim asylum even on the Mexican side of the border wall as long it is on US territory.  It's part of the reason why people eyeroll when Trump supporters claim the wall will solve all the problems.  It's also why Trump is so desperate to change or ignore asylum laws.

[lightly]

2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

 

And then used for political gain, and to justify government spending.

                ^      This caught my eye.  Both sides use any and every "issue" for those reasons.  

Look at WHO receives the government spending...and you will see who $upports which side...and who actually formulates government policy.  

Enrich corporate America and call it economic growth.

[acidhead]

Time to make a deal Chuck!!!

 

[RavenHawk]

On 7/20/2019 at 11:00 AM, lightly said:

The border between Mexico and the U.S.  Is in the exact center of the Rio Grand ....

Technically, that is incorrect.  The exact border is called the “thalweg”, which is the lowest point of the channel.  When the river is full, you can’t always tell where the thalweg is located.  It’ll meander from one side to the other.  Just out of convenience it is assumed to be the middle of the river.

 

by the time someone reaches the shore they are IN the U.S.     ....

If you haven’t noticed, there are wall sections in or along the river.

 

where they can say...nice looking wall. Is it new?

I’m sure they see it when they come up on it and could care less if it is new or not.  They’ll curse it and find a different place to cross.  That also throws off the drugs crossing further up or down the river.

 

      What happens then?  

Fewer cross.

 

Arrested for illegal entry?...or can they request asylum? ...

Yes and yes, as usual.

[Gromdor]

Looks like the numbers are in for that big ICE raid.  ICE caught 35 from their list of 2000.  https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/23/politics/ice-raids-35-arrests/index.html

A 1.75% success rate. 

I found this part funny:

"You didn't hear ICE talking about it before the operation was taking place,"- Acting ICE Director Matthew Albence.