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Captain Risky

Mexico border wall: Trump defends emergency

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susieice
10 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

i highly don't that the founding fathers or those that wrote the laws over many generations would leave a provision in it for someone to break the very spirit of the democracy they are mean't to uphold. this is a unilateral action. its dictatorial in nature. it says i won't compromise and i will not negotiate within the parameters of my office. o i will bend the laws and misinterpret to get what i want. in essence if he wins his wall then why does America need a House of Rep's and Senate? 

I've seen enough posts already today (not all in UM) to think both sides are going to tit for tat themselves into oblivion. You do this and I'm going to do that! This kind of battling is going to go on for years.

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Captain Risky
5 minutes ago, susieice said:

I've seen enough posts already today (not all in UM) to think both sides are going to tit for tat themselves into oblivion. You do this and I'm going to do that! This kind of battling is going to go on for years.

i sure there will be alot of controversy over this course of action that Trump is planning. but it still doesn't change the fact that by-passing the senate and House is setting a dangerous precedent. i mean whats to stop the next democratic president banning all military style guns the next time there is a school shooting?

No i think that Trump is gonna find it very hard to sell this state of emergency to the public and also his fellow republicans.
 

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and then
17 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

i highly don't that the founding fathers or those that wrote the laws over many generations would leave a provision in it for someone to break the very spirit of the democracy they are mean't to uphold. this is a unilateral action. its dictatorial in nature. it says i won't compromise and i will not negotiate within the parameters of my office. o i will bend the laws and misinterpret to get what i want. in essence if he wins his wall then why does America need a House of Rep's and Senate? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emergencies_Act

 

"The Act authorized the President to activate emergency provisions of law via an emergency declaration on the conditions that the President specifies the provisions so activated and notifies Congress. An activation would expire if the President expressly terminated the emergency, or did not renew the emergency annually, or if each house of Congress passed a resolution terminating the emergency. After presidents objected to this "Congressional termination" provision on separation of powers grounds, and the Supreme Court in INS v. Chadha (1983) held such provisions to be an unconstitutional legislative veto,[16] it was replaced in 1985 with termination by an enacted joint resolution. A joint resolution passed by both chambers requires presidential signature, giving the president veto power over the termination (requiring a two-thirds majority in both houses in the case of a contested termination.)[17]. The Act also requires the President and executive agencies to maintain records of all orders and regulations that proceed from use of emergency authority, and to regularly report the cost incurred to Congress".

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susieice
1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

i sure there will be alot of controversy over this course of action that Trump is planning. but it still doesn't change the fact that by-passing the senate and House is setting a dangerous precedent. i mean whats to stop the next democratic president banning all military style guns the next time there is a school shooting?

No i think that Trump is gonna find it very hard to sell this state of emergency to the public and also his fellow republicans.
 

That's what I said. Every President will try this now. Regardless of party. This will go on for years!

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and then
4 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

i mean whats to stop the next democratic president banning all military style guns the next time there is a school shooting?

That's easy.  The millions of gun owners ;) 

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Captain Risky
1 minute ago, and then said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emergencies_Act

 

"The Act authorized the President to activate emergency provisions of law via an emergency declaration on the conditions that the President specifies the provisions so activated and notifies Congress. An activation would expire if the President expressly terminated the emergency, or did not renew the emergency annually, or if each house of Congress passed a resolution terminating the emergency. After presidents objected to this "Congressional termination" provision on separation of powers grounds, and the Supreme Court in INS v. Chadha (1983) held such provisions to be an unconstitutional legislative veto,[16] it was replaced in 1985 with termination by an enacted joint resolution. A joint resolution passed by both chambers requires presidential signature, giving the president veto power over the termination (requiring a two-thirds majority in both houses in the case of a contested termination.)[17]. The Act also requires the President and executive agencies to maintain records of all orders and regulations that proceed from use of emergency authority, and to regularly report the cost incurred to Congress".

fine then next democratic president that comes to office can do the same and ban military style weapons next time there is a school shooting. you okay with that? 

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and then
Just now, Captain Risky said:

fine then next democratic president that comes to office can do the same and ban military style weapons next time there is a school shooting. you okay with that? 

See my last post.

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lightly

I thought of a heartless ,but much less expensive,partial solution to illegal border crossers.... Instead of catching and releasing them into this country...or incarcerating,or housing them and all that...why couldn't border patrol take bus loads of illegals right back into Mexico and drop them off ?..

I would think that would highly incentivize Mexico to stop them from streaming into Mexico ,heading to the U.S., in the first place ?     And would cost almost nothing by comparison .

.....but anyway....the fact is that most illegals in this country entered legally, on work visas,  and just never left.

 

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Captain Risky
Just now, and then said:

That's easy.  The millions of gun owners ;) 

well start building a machine gun nest on your property. ;)

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Captain Risky
Just now, and then said:

See my last post.

all you've told me is how you'll act and how you expect other gun owners to act too. but my question was how would you feel if the next president acted the same for gun control? 

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and then
Just now, Captain Risky said:

well start building a machine gun nest on your property. ;)

Who needs it?  Hadn't you heard?  We now have legal precedent to arbitrarily nullify any Federal law we choose.  The Dems call them "Sanctuaries".  A town in New Mexico recently named itself a Second Amendment sanctuary after a Democrat legislature there started up passing highly restrictive gun laws.  

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Captain Risky
Just now, and then said:

Who needs it?  Hadn't you heard?  We now have legal precedent to arbitrarily nullify any Federal law we choose.  The Dems call them "Sanctuaries".  A town in New Mexico recently named itself a Second Amendment sanctuary after a Democrat legislature there started up passing highly restrictive gun laws.  

so whats the stop the land owners on the Mexico border from doing the same? 

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1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

all you've told me is how you'll act and how you expect other gun owners to act too. but my question was how would you feel if the next president acted the same for gun control? 

Like most rational Americans.  There's getting past the polling on this.  We expect limitations on the numbers of people allowed to come here and we also expect them to be vetted AND to actually desire U.S. citizenship.  

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and then
Just now, Captain Risky said:

so whats the stop the land owners on the Mexico border from doing the same? 

I don't understand your question.  If you are asking what we'd do if those landowners refused to allow barriers to be built, that would be rare.  Most farmers and ranchers would love the extra security but even those who'd put their own safety after party affiliation would have no standing.  Imminent Domain.

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Captain Risky
Just now, and then said:

Like most rational Americans.  There's getting past the polling on this.  We expect limitations on the numbers of people allowed to come here and we also expect them to be vetted AND to actually desire U.S. citizenship.  

not saying that a wall will not help in controlling immigration. just that there are better ways to spend the money. thats the issue. so you're okay with the next president banning guns under similar conditions? 

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Captain Risky
Just now, and then said:

I don't understand your question.  If you are asking what we'd do if those landowners refused to allow barriers to be built, that would be rare.  Most farmers and ranchers would love the extra security but even those who'd put their own safety after party affiliation would have no standing.  Imminent Domain.

no whats to stop the farmers and residents along the border, who's land will no doubt be resumed from asking for similar sanctuary rights? 

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aztek
2 hours ago, and then said:

 Nutty Nancy has already thrown the idea out there that the Dems might just declare a national emergency over gun control.  Wouldn't be prudent ;) 

she is talking sht as usual, a president can't declare an emergency over a constitutional right

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susieice
12 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

all you've told me is how you'll act and how you expect other gun owners to act too. but my question was how would you feel if the next president acted the same for gun control? 

They probably will. And the one after that will do something else. And the one after that......

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susieice
18 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

fine then next democratic president that comes to office can do the same and ban military style weapons next time there is a school shooting. you okay with that? 

Heard this all day today.

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Captain Risky
1 minute ago, susieice said:

Heard this all day today.

its for that reason that i don't think that Trump will be supported by his party and they'll stop it. if you really think about it the republican cause has more to lose with such unilateral actions. i bet the democrats will be silently hoping that Trump does do it and they can push change popular policies like gun control and public health. as it stands apart from costing and wasting money the wall really doesn't define the democratic party nor the republicans just Trump.

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susieice
1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

its for that reason that i don't think that Trump will be supported by his party and they'll stop it. if you really think about it the republican cause has more to lose with such unilateral actions. i bet the democrats will be silently hoping that Trump does do it and they can push change popular policies like gun control and public health. as it stands apart from costing and wasting money the wall really doesn't define the democratic party nor the republicans just Trump.

Both parties seem well aware of what this is going to start. This could be a never ending circle for the rest of time. Or at least until somebody nips it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/02/14/national-emergency-democrats-republicans-warn-trump-against-declaration/2874582002/

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aztek

idk why anyone would compare a constitutional right, to open border that is constantly crossed ILLEGALLY,  the other side of the border even sponsors caravans, IT IS national emergency.

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Captain Risky
6 minutes ago, susieice said:

Both parties seem well aware of what this is going to start. This could be a never ending circle for the rest of time. Or at least until somebody nips it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/02/14/national-emergency-democrats-republicans-warn-trump-against-declaration/2874582002/

thanks for posting the link. still maybe Trump is using this for leverage for a better wall deal. i would have gone another way and legislated border security to the military and gotten them to man the border. still never a dole moment in American politics. 

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susieice
1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

thanks for posting the link. still maybe Trump is using this for leverage for a better wall deal. i would have gone another way and legislated border security to the military and gotten them to man the border. still never a dole moment in American politics. 

Nope. It's really become a stalemate. Two sides going against each other no matter what. Never to agree on anything. One says white, the other will surely yell black. Who knows where this will go or for how long. And it's not going to matter who is in what office. 

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Captain Risky
3 minutes ago, susieice said:

Nope. It's really become a stalemate. Two sides going against each other no matter what. Never to agree on anything. One says white, the other will surely yell black. Who knows where this will go or for how long. And it's not going to matter who is in what office. 

still i read that Trump unilaterism is not a foregone conclusion. apparently the supreme court will challenge it. surely there must be some definition of a 'national emergency' that independent of the presidents wishes. another thing that came to mind is may be Trump is looking to quickly exploit a loophole before its shut down, legally. cleaver if he is.    

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