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Captain Risky

Mexico border wall: Trump defends emergency

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DieChecker

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/07/us/politics/trump-tariffs-mexico.html

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Trump Calls Off Plan to Impose Tariffs on Mexico

So NOW we have our good "ally" Mexico working with us. I imagine they'll be more helpful going forward now.

Maybe they'll even be persuaded to help pay for sections of wall. Campaign promise might still happen....

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Hammerclaw

Political Cartoons by Michael Ramirez

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acidhead

 

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DieChecker

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/450215-house-passes-45b-border-funding-bill

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The House passed a $4.5 billion border funding bill in a 230-195 vote on Tuesday after last-minute changes were made to the legislation to sway progressive and Latino lawmakers who previously weren’t on board. 

The Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for Humanitarian Assistance and Security at the Southern Border Act, which aims to provide humanitarian aid and address the flow of migrants, faces a veto threat from the White House and an uphill battle in the upper chamber, which is slated to bring up its own border bill as soon as Tuesday.

 

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Farmer77

Border wall: Appeals court upholds freeze on using Pentagon money

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A California appeals court on Wednesday upheld a freeze on Pentagon money to build a border wall with Mexico, casting doubt on President Trump's ability to make good on a signature campaign promise before the 2020 election. A divided three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco agreed with a lower court ruling that prevented the government from tapping Defense Department counterdrug money to build high-priority sections of wall in Arizona and New Mexico.

 

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South Alabam

If the border was 100% closed up, where would Americans get their illegal drugs from? Over 98% come from Mexico.             https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/report-nearly-all-998-of-illegal-drugs-shipped-to-us-from-mexico           

Maybe people would stop overdosing on some of those drugs.         

Maybe gun violence would show a decrease. Maybe gang violence would slow.

Maybe violence in Mexico from the drug war would slow, causing less people to want to flee Mexico.

Maybe the Cartels in Mexico would go out of bussiness or turn elsewhere.

The wall is seen as racist, by Democrats no less, who always call everything "racist" yet they approved the parts of the wall and barriers that are already up, so are they racist too, or just hypocrites?

But let's not look at what a not having a wall does, or maybes, let's just call it "racist" while people continue to die from the above.

 

 

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Gromdor
1 hour ago, South Alabam said:

If the border was 100% closed up, where would Americans get their illegal drugs from? Over 98% come from Mexico.             https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/report-nearly-all-998-of-illegal-drugs-shipped-to-us-from-mexico           

Maybe people would stop overdosing on some of those drugs.         

Maybe gun violence would show a decrease. Maybe gang violence would slow.

Maybe violence in Mexico from the drug war would slow, causing less people to want to flee Mexico.

Maybe the Cartels in Mexico would go out of bussiness or turn elsewhere.

The wall is seen as racist, by Democrats no less, who always call everything "racist" yet they approved the parts of the wall and barriers that are already up, so are they racist too, or just hypocrites?

But let's not look at what a not having a wall does, or maybes, let's just call it "racist" while people continue to die from the above.

 

 

You missed this gem in the news: https://www.freightwaves.com/news/drugs-at-sea-more-cocaine-more-ships-and-more-problems

16.5 tons of cocaine.  Just a couple of weeks ago.

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DieChecker
On 7/4/2019 at 7:58 AM, South Alabam said:

If the border was 100% closed up, where would Americans get their illegal drugs from? Over 98% come from Mexico.             https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/report-nearly-all-998-of-illegal-drugs-shipped-to-us-from-mexico           

Maybe people would stop overdosing on some of those drugs.         

Maybe gun violence would show a decrease. Maybe gang violence would slow.

Maybe violence in Mexico from the drug war would slow, causing less people to want to flee Mexico.

Maybe the Cartels in Mexico would go out of bussiness or turn elsewhere.

The wall is seen as racist, by Democrats no less, who always call everything "racist" yet they approved the parts of the wall and barriers that are already up, so are they racist too, or just hypocrites?

But let's not look at what a not having a wall does, or maybes, let's just call it "racist" while people continue to die from the above.

 

 

From your link....

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U.S. Customs and Border Protection seizure figures show that in 2015, 99.8 percent of methamphetamine and 99.9 percent of marijuana seized in the U.S. came from the southern border. Another 61 percent of cocaine seizures were on the West Coast, mostly California, suggesting that Colombian drug cartels are looking for a new route in, according to a new report.

Looks like your article agrees with Gromdor's article. I guess he missed that.

I'm not going to delude myself that building the Wall will remove illegal drugs. But I do believe that it will help. I do believe that it would be worth it given all the things that the Wall would hinder.

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Gromdor

The problem with Alabama's link is the author misrepresents the numbers (which he can get away with doing by claiming it is an opinion piece and not news) .  The title says 99% of the drugs comes from Mexico but in reality it is 99% of drug busts happen on the Mexico border.  Which is logical to me since we rarely inspect cargo containers coming in ships, nor do we patrol Canada's border like we do the Mexican border.

In reality 99% of the drugs could be coming in from ships (or even domestic drug manufacturers) with 1% getting shipped from Mexico.  That 1% could be what's getting caught and giving the numbers the author is running with.

 

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DieChecker

The article said "... seized in the US ...". And didn't specifically say just at the border. Is there another article, or link, that says only at the border?

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Dumbledore the Awesome
Posted (edited)

I think someone's playing with the meaning of words here in an attempt to avoid the surely blindingly obvious. I rather expect the number of drug cartels operating on the Canadian border is fairly small, and it's a tremondously long way round to go surely.

Edited by Dumbledore the Awesome
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DieChecker

The problem with if drugs are coming across the border in large amounts or not, is in whos reporting do you trust?

Washington Post says most drugs come through check points, but then they seem to get a lot of their statistics wrong...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/02/01/want-know-where-most-drugs-cross-border-look-border-patrols-press-releases/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e2bc10ae182f

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Most of the seizures including in the CBP’s releases were similar in nature to the Nogales and Yuma stops: A vehicle pulled over for inspection that was found to have drugs either hidden in the vehicle or, in some cases, sitting within view. Often, the drugs were detected by drug-sniffing dogs.

Harder drugs like cocaine, heroin and fentanyl were generally captured in smaller amounts than marijuana. In total, more than 25,000 pounds of drugs, mostly marijuana, were seized at ports of entry. About 7,600 pounds — nearly all of it marijuana — were seized between ports of entry. About 400 pounds of drugs, mostly not marijuana, was seized at checkpoints. (These data exclude bulk reports of seizures without identified individual dates.)

While the Washington Examiner says most drugs are coming across between ports of entry. And their numbers look more like what I'd expect...

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/more-drugs-seized-at-unguarded-sections-of-the-border-than-at-ports-of-entry-in-2018

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U.S. Border Patrol, which works in the unfenced or minimally protected space between crossings, seized nearly 480,000 pounds of drugs on the U.S.-Mexico border in fiscal year 2018.

Drug seizures that occur at ports of entry are documented under Customs and Border Protection’s Office of Field Operations statistics. Its four field offices on the southern border — El Paso, Texas; Laredo, Texas; Tucson, Ariz.; and San Diego — seized 370,000 pounds of drugs in the 2018 fiscal year.

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Marijuana made up the greatest amount of drugs caught while being smuggled from Mexico into the United States. Slightly more than 461,000 of the 480,000 pounds of narcotics found was marijuana. All other drug seizures between ports of entry totaled less than 20,000, or less than 5 percent of the total pounds seized.

Looking at the actual Government site seems to agree with the Examiner, and not the Post.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics

So people depending on the left leaning Washington Post are going to NATURALLY think that Trump's Wall is a unnecessary boondoggle, and those who read the right leaning Examiner, are going to believe that it is absolutely a good idea. If a quarter of the drugs brought into the nation can be shielded against, and made much more difficult to make happen, isn't that a good thing? At several tens of billions of dollars, the Wall is a lot less then even a single years worth of the costs to Healthcare due to illegal drug use.

Will the Wall cure illegal drug use? NO! Of course not. But it is a step in the right direction, IMHO.

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Gromdor
12 hours ago, DieChecker said:

The article said "... seized in the US ...". And didn't specifically say just at the border. Is there another article, or link, that says only at the border?

Yeah the picture in the article has little balloons where the drugs were seized.  Also we are discussing numbers from Customs and Border Patrol seizures and not the DEA in general.  Meaning we are only talking about what the Border Patrol found.

The marijuana numbers are kinda throwing the overall drug numbers into whack as well.  The 35,000lbs of Cocaine that was seized in Philadelphia from the article I linked is almost more than twice what they seized all year of everything except marijuana combined.  That was one boat.

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Farmer77
On 7/7/2019 at 7:57 AM, DieChecker said:

So people depending on the left leaning Washington Post are going to NATURALLY think that Trump's Wall is a unnecessary boondoggle, and those who read the right leaning Examiner, are going to believe that it is absolutely a good idea. If a quarter of the drugs brought into the nation can be shielded against, and made much more difficult to make happen, isn't that a good thing? At several tens of billions of dollars, the Wall is a lot less then even a single years worth of the costs to Healthcare due to illegal drug use.

Will the Wall cure illegal drug use? NO! Of course not. But it is a step in the right direction, IMHO.

You know what does cure illegal drug use? Legalizing drugs and treating addiction as a health problem rather than a criminal one. 

The fact that not a single national representative is pushing for this is just one more factor that makes me know the wall is nothing more than a racist vanity project. Its not about people its about politics.

 

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DieChecker
4 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

...is nothing more than a racist vanity project. Its not about people its about politics.

You know what? Regardless of the intent, if it is something I think, as a grown, experienced human, is a good idea.... I'm going to support it.

Trump could build it to have sex with it for all I care. It is clear to me that fences worked, and a higher continuous barrier will work better.

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DieChecker
4 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

You know what does cure illegal drug use? Legalizing drugs and treating addiction as a health problem rather than a criminal one. 

Know what else fixed drug use? Therapy. Regardless of if the drugs are legal or illegal.

Making drugs legal to have an excuse to treat people's mental issues is just that.... an excuse.

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, DieChecker said:

You know what? Regardless of the intent, if it is something I think, as a grown, experienced human, is a good idea.... I'm going to support it.

Trump could build it to have sex with it for all I care. It is clear to me that fences worked, and a higher continuous barrier will work better.

I can respect that fully.

The point of my post really was that legalization would work better.

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Farmer77
Just now, DieChecker said:

Know what else fixed drug use? Therapy. Regardless of if the drugs are legal or illegal.

Making drugs legal to have an excuse to treat people's mental issues is just that.... an excuse.

 Its stopping the merry go round of insanity that is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result. 

The war on drugs has been lost.  Throwing good money after bad is solely a political and financial (as in to keep the profits coming) decision, not a logical one. 

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DieChecker
2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

 Its stopping the merry go round of insanity that is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result. 

The war on drugs has been lost.  Throwing good money after bad is solely a political and financial (as in to keep the profits coming) decision, not a logical one. 

I'd agree as far as jailing people for trace amounts, and minor usage. But, treating people isn't about the minor users, it is about the hard core users, who need medical help, regardless of legality. And most will not seek it themselves, even if drugs were legal.

Money is a motivation everyone understands. If half, or a quarter, of the drugs currently making it across the Mexican border are stopped, prices will rise and people will either stop, or ruin themselves faster. Or, maybe never start. The less drugs coming across, fiscally, the better for the U.S.. 

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aztek

if prices go up people will pay higher prices, as we have seen it happen with ciggs, crackheads will just have to rob more people.

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aztek

 

Two Marines Arrested for Allegedly Smuggling Migrants Across Border

Two U.S. Marines in California were arrested last week and charged with smuggling undocumented immigrants across the southern border, according to reports.

Border Patrol agents arrested Marine Lance Corporals Byron Law II and David Salazar-Quintero of Camp Pendleton on July 3, after apprehending them in their car with three undocumented immigrants, who informed authorities they were citizens of Mexico without documentation.

The active-duty soldiers face the federal charge of “transportation of certain aliens for financial gain.” Both confessed to authorities that they have transported migrants more than once, including the previous day.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/two-marines-arrested-allegedly-smuggling-185111339.html

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

Know what else fixed drug use? Therapy. Regardless of if the drugs are legal or illegal.

Yes.  That costs money.  Most of the people we are talking about don't have money.  We would have to pay for their therapy.  In the long run it would be cheaper for society if we could cure them.  I guess I am OK with that.

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Gromdor
24 minutes ago, aztek said:

 

Two Marines Arrested for Allegedly Smuggling Migrants Across Border

Two U.S. Marines in California were arrested last week and charged with smuggling undocumented immigrants across the southern border, according to reports.

Border Patrol agents arrested Marine Lance Corporals Byron Law II and David Salazar-Quintero of Camp Pendleton on July 3, after apprehending them in their car with three undocumented immigrants, who informed authorities they were citizens of Mexico without documentation.

The active-duty soldiers face the federal charge of “transportation of certain aliens for financial gain.” Both confessed to authorities that they have transported migrants more than once, including the previous day.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/two-marines-arrested-allegedly-smuggling-185111339.html

Yeah, that's a problem we probably will be seeing using enlisted to guard the border.  Both those guys are E-3.  They make $1,885.80/month  or about $22,000 a year.  A coyote or a drug dealer can tempt them pretty easy with a wad of cash.  Especially when they are stuck doing the job of Border Patrol which makes $41,000-$90,000 a year.

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DieChecker
1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

Yes.  That costs money.  Most of the people we are talking about don't have money.  We would have to pay for their therapy.  In the long run it would be cheaper for society if we could cure them.  I guess I am OK with that.

I'd be fine with putting chronic drug users on Medicare/Medicaid till they were cured. Even if that was 50 years.

Bam! Insured. Therapy. No legal crack or meth necessary.

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DieChecker
2 hours ago, aztek said:

 

Two Marines Arrested for Allegedly Smuggling Migrants Across Border

Two U.S. Marines in California were arrested last week and charged with smuggling undocumented immigrants across the southern border, according to reports.

Border Patrol agents arrested Marine Lance Corporals Byron Law II and David Salazar-Quintero of Camp Pendleton on July 3, after apprehending them in their car with three undocumented immigrants, who informed authorities they were citizens of Mexico without documentation.

The active-duty soldiers face the federal charge of “transportation of certain aliens for financial gain.” Both confessed to authorities that they have transported migrants more than once, including the previous day.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/two-marines-arrested-allegedly-smuggling-185111339.html

I wonder how much they were making? I hope it was worth it, but I suspect it was not.

When I was in the Army, I saw a guy taken down at the PX for stealing a music CD. He went to military prison and received a bad conduct discharge. He was a Sergeant with a wife and kid, but REALLY wanted that CD.

So many people make so many bad choices.

 

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