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Eldorado

YouTube to blame for Flat Earth popularity

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Dark_Grey
40 minutes ago, Essan said:

True.  But you used to have to go out an buy a book.  It's much easier now,  And there is a lot more of it

If anything, it's a lot easier to disprove things now than it used to be. I can sit in front of my computer for 1 hour and pour over hundreds of peer reviewed articles without even leaving my house. As opposed to buying a single book, finishing it, finding a rebuttal, finishing that, then moving on to whatever other sources happen to be available at the library at that time. Significant difference in information processing there. If you know how pick apart information and sources, the internet is the greatest resource in the history of man, period. If you are just a gullible moron who gets his worldview from YouTube videos, it probably doesn't matter which decade you were born in. 

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Essan
12 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

If anything, it's a lot easier to disprove things now than it used to be. I can sit in front of my computer for 1 hour and pour over hundreds of peer reviewed articles without even leaving my house. As opposed to buying a single book, finishing it, finding a rebuttal, finishing that, then moving on to whatever other sources happen to be available at the library at that time. Significant difference in information processing there. If you know how pick apart information and sources, the internet is the greatest resource in the history of man, period. If you are just a gullible moron who gets his worldview from YouTube videos, it probably doesn't matter which decade you were born in. 

Good point,

in pre-internet days I found Graham Hancock's Fingerprints of the Gods quite persuasive.  And then I found I could access proper scientific data for myself  And quickly disproved everything he said ....

I guess some just don;t want to?. 

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Seti42

The educational system is training people to absorb 'facts', not critically think. If people were taught basic logic, the scientific method, etc. in school we'd be better off, but worse at being worker drones/wage slaves for the wealthy few.

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Dark_Grey
36 minutes ago, Essan said:

Good point,

in pre-internet days I found Graham Hancock's Fingerprints of the Gods quite persuasive.  And then I found I could access proper scientific data for myself  And quickly disproved everything he said ....

I guess some just don;t want to?. 

Many still do find his work persuasive. I myself have a copy of that book :) Hancock is a good writer, IMO, which makes it easier for him to really romanticize his arguments and draw the reader in to his world of high tech ancient civilizations and mysticism. You took the final step of validating what you read - many people are satisfied with the first comfortable hypothesis they come across and never bother to dive deeper. "Flat Earthers" often fall in to that trap and thus stay flat earthers.

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Simbi Laveau
7 hours ago, glorybebe said:

I remember my parents, who I thought we smart :unsure: believing what was printed in the Nation Enquirer-because it was printed in a newspaper, it had to be true....yeah

And then the spoof about mermaids being real...a teenager totally believed it because it was a documentory.

Yes, there gsve been flat earthers for ages, the difference is that Youtube reaches so many more people.  And the videos are made to look like real documentaries.  Lack of education really shows with segments of society believing anything-because it is on the internet 

Mermaids aren't real... 

Saaayyy it isn't so... 

*sobs*

:P

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South Alabam

If they want more flat earth believers, all they need to do is have Trump declare how much he loves this big beautiful round earth we live on.

Edited by South Alabam
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Hawken

Youtube is just a tool for the Source. Which in this case the video's Source is The Guardian.

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Myles
17 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

I think that quite a few of the flatards do it for the attention, not because of a strongly held position. These days people seem to be willing to do or say crazy stuff in order to get attention or troll people. Sadly facts appear to be less important than attention for some people.

 

I agree.    I don't think anyone really believes the Earth is flat.   I think it is mostly attention seekers and people who like to debate (argue).   Flat Earth would be the toughest argument to win.   So it is kind of the holy grail of debates. 

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highdesert50

Our perceptions are shaped by our beliefs. If we share similar beliefs to those of our peer group, then those beliefs are reinforced given comparable expectations. What are the expectations ... monetary gain, fame, desire to be rebellious, etc,. Then, again, there is also probability theory and the normal distribution which when applied would suggest for the half the population that is above normal in intelligence there is a corresponding half that is below normal.

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Emma_Acid
On 18/02/2019 at 5:58 PM, Dark_Grey said:

The movement is fed by small but true facts such as NASA admitting nearly all their images are CGI

No they haven't.

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Dark_Grey
44 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

No they haven't.

Did you know you can type your search words directly in to the address bar and it will take you to Google? In Chrome it takes like, 3 seconds to find anything.

Space.com - 2010

Quote

Conspiracy theorists are abuzz over the revelation that a recent NASA photo was touched up before being released to the public.

But this is not news, or evidence that the space agency has something to hide. NASA routinely processes raw images to enhance details, or to visualize things the human eye could never see, agency officials have said. Other space agencies, and many astronomers, do the same thing.

Such editing lets scientists and the public gain a better understanding of the structure of celestial objects — and a better appreciation of their beauty. 

and

Quote

Like Cassini, Hubble takes separate, digital color images through red, blue, green and other filters. Scientists can combine these photos to create a comprehensive picture. Often, this image is a close approximation of what people would see if they could get close enough to the object in a spacecraft.

Sometimes, however, scientists enhance certain colors to draw out fine details of structure. For example, Hubble photographed the Cat's Eye Nebula through three narrow wavelengths of red light that correspond to radiation from hydrogen atoms, oxygen atoms and nitrogen ions (nitrogen atoms with one electron removed).

For human eyes,those three wavelengths of light would be difficult to distinguish.So the scientists assigned red, blue and green colors to them and combined them to highlight the subtle chemical differences.

Is the public interested in seeing a picture of a fuzzy dot of light or a beautiful blue Avatar planet? NASA admits they heavily edit their images for public consumption and they have been doing it for a long time. This feeds the Flat Earther.

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Dark_Grey
On 19/02/2019 at 5:57 AM, Myles said:

I agree.    I don't think anyone really believes the Earth is flat.   

Funny you should say that - a running gag within the FE community is that no Flat Earther wanted to be believe in it but they had no choice once they saw the evidence.

Look, I don't believe in FE at all but I find their arguments and their model of the solar system to be really interesting. Quick breakdown:

They believe the Biblical/ancient ideas about the Earth. It's a flat disc like a frisbee (not paper thin,) with a massive dome that covers edge to edge called "the Firmament". Under this dome lies the sun and moon which are identical in size and distance, operating as a sort of "yin and yang" rotating around the Earth opposite each other. The shadow of the Earth on the moon during the moon's phases is showing the backside of the flat earth which is why the shadow is still round instead of a thin slit. Some FE believers think the moon is outside the firmament so NASA faked the moon landing as there is no way to pass through the dome ("crazy" is a spectrum).

"Fish eye" lenses are a staple in their arguments. Curving effects in the lens cause the edges of images to warp backwards, resulting in a globe effect.

Spoiler

iphone-fisheye-comparison.jpg

So you might say, "we know the Earth is a globe because we pictures taken from low orbit cameras that show the Earth's curvature."

to which the FE believer will say, "That was using a fish eye lens, bro!"

By the way, does anyone happen to know what altitude one would need to take a picture of the curvature of the Earth? Different Scientists are giving different answers which is just making things worse.

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Myles
27 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Funny you should say that - a running gag within the FE community is that no Flat Earther wanted to be believe in it but they had no choice once they saw the evidence.

Look, I don't believe in FE at all but I find their arguments and their model of the solar system to be really interesting. Quick breakdown:

They believe the Biblical/ancient ideas about the Earth. It's a flat disc like a frisbee (not paper thin,) with a massive dome that covers edge to edge called "the Firmament". Under this dome lies the sun and moon which are identical in size and distance, operating as a sort of "yin and yang" rotating around the Earth opposite each other. The shadow of the Earth on the moon during the moon's phases is showing the backside of the flat earth which is why the shadow is still round instead of a thin slit. Some FE believers think the moon is outside the firmament so NASA faked the moon landing as there is no way to pass through the dome ("crazy" is a spectrum).

 

  Hide contents

 

 

I don't doubt that they build or create models of what a flat Earth may be, but I think it is all in fun.   I don't think they really believe it.   Kind of like die hard "trekkies" who learn the Klingon language.   They know there are not Klingon out there.   Just good fun.

 

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Dark_Grey
23 minutes ago, Myles said:

I don't doubt that they build or create models of what a flat Earth may be, but I think it is all in fun.   I don't think they really believe it.   Kind of like die hard "trekkies" who learn the Klingon language.   They know there are not Klingon out there.   Just good fun.

Oh, they really believe it because they can't prove a round Earth. Once you are a FE believer, there is no going back. Without leveraging the internet, it's surprisingly difficult for most people to "prove" we live on a globe. Off the top of your head, how would Myles prove beyond any doubt we live on a globe?

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
1 hour ago, Dark_Grey said:

Off the top of your head, how would Myles prove beyond any doubt we live on a globe?

Looking at the horizon is a pretty good clue, especially over the ocean or other flat terrain.

Look at the angle of the Sun light during the day is another pretty solid proof.

The moon's phases is yet another very good clue.

Something as simple as looking at flight times in the southern hemisphere is another way to prove that their model simply don't work.

Gravity !

The first two of these arguments have been accepted for well over 2000 years !

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Myles
1 hour ago, Dark_Grey said:

Oh, they really believe it because they can't prove a round Earth. Once you are a FE believer, there is no going back. Without leveraging the internet, it's surprisingly difficult for most people to "prove" we live on a globe. Off the top of your head, how would Myles prove beyond any doubt we live on a globe?

Many ways.   From the sun rising and setting to the flights I have taken around the globe.   

It is much more difficult to create reasons why the Earth is flat.   If fact, they have yet to come up with anything valid. 

 

I still think they are just having fun messing with you.  

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Dark_Grey
1 minute ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Looking at the horizon is a pretty good clue, especially over the ocean or other flat terrain.

As a common sense argument, you would think so but apparently there are a lot of examples of amateur telescopes watching ships farther away than what we should be able to see with curvature. 

Quote

Look at the angle of the Sun light during the day is another pretty solid proof.

The moon's phases is yet another very good clue.

Not according to the flat earth model lol both of those are explained within that wheelhouse

Quote

Something as simple as looking at flight times in the southern hemisphere is another way to prove that their model simply don't work.

Apparently, there are several pilots that have come forward saying they don't factor curvature in to their flight telemetry. Others say they do. Inconsistencies are what keeps the FE movement going

Quote

Gravity !

Gravity doesn't exist. What we know as "gravity" is really density related to atmosphere. Less dense objects rise (helium balloon), denser objects stay on the ground. This is how they skirt around topics they don't have a deep understanding of. If the Earth is spinning very fast and space is a vacuum, why doesn't water fling off due to centrifugal force? At the very least, we should see some evidence of the forces of gravity fighting against the forces of a spinning globe. According to FE people, we don't see evidence of that constant struggle because the Earth is actually stationary and flat.

Quote

The first two of these arguments have been accepted for well over 2000 years !

Not enough time.

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Dark_Grey
7 minutes ago, Myles said:

Many ways.   From the sun rising and setting to the flights I have taken around the globe.   

It is much more difficult to create reasons why the Earth is flat.   If fact, they have yet to come up with anything valid. 

Hey bro the windows on the plane have a fish eye effect so you can't trust your eyes up there. Also, Neil DeGrasse Tyson himself said 30,000 feet up is not high enough to see the Earth's curvature so the FE community will not accept eye witness accounts from simple airplane travel. 

Here is some guy's animation of the FE model as it relates to day and night.

Quote

This little animation shows a point light inside a sun sphere, going around the circle of the Flat Earth Azimuthal Equidistant (United Nations) map. In it, we can see how night and day (and timezones) are still possible. I did not include the moon in this model, but it would essentially follow a similar path, giving less light and moving at a different pace. From what I understand about the Flat Earther's perspective, the sun and moon will also deviate in their path for the different seasons. The Book of Enoch gives us tremendous detail explaining the course of the luminaries that rule the day and the night.

I like picking the FE theory apart. I'm learning a lot about the physics of space and astronomy. Things that happen every day we just take for granted, not really stopping to wonder at it all

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Dark_Grey

Another FE animated model, this one includes heavenly bodies 

Quote

Using Google Sketchup I created this 3D model of 7 Wandering Stars (Planets), the Sun and Moon. This video represents the Sun, Moon and 7 said Planets for two 28 day Lunar Cycles, and is accurate to within 10° of arc during the first few frames for January 14, 2016. But is not an accurate representation of time. NOT TO SCALE. This 3D model is not meant to be an entire cosmological model. The Moon slowly lags behind the Sun until it surpasses it, this creates Lunar Phases. If you observe Mercury (small and red), you can see its retrograde motion throughout the animation. In the beginning Mercury is near the Sun then moves away, reaches its furthest point and moves back toward the Sun (retrograde), and surpasses it. Venus also displays retrograde with relation to the Sun but requires more time to be observed, here you can only see it moving backwards, along with all the others, progressively slower from Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and Uranus to Neptune being the slowest and displaying minimal procession.

 

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Myles
14 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

As a common sense argument, you would think so but apparently there are a lot of examples of amateur telescopes watching ships farther away than what we should be able to see with curvature. 

 

That's not true. 

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Myles
6 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Hey bro the windows on the plane have a fish eye effect so you can't trust your eyes up there. Also, Neil DeGrasse Tyson himself said 30,000 feet up is not high enough to see the Earth's curvature so the FE community will not accept eye witness accounts from simple airplane travel. 

Here is some guy's animation of the FE model as it relates to day and night.

 

Not just the view from the plane, but the routes taken.  Can't be done on a flat Earth. 

 

That video is some funny stuff.

 

Again, no one really believes the Earth is flat.

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Dark_Grey
1 minute ago, Myles said:

That's not true. 

lol hey that's just what I've heard from reputable YouTube sources. 

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

Again, no one really believes the Earth is flat.

Now that's a conspiracy you will have to convince me on :lol: There are people who genuinely believe they are furry creatures - "there's a sucker born every minute". 

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy

I assumed you meant what would convince a normal person. You can't convince a die-hard conspiracy nut, because they can allways claim that any inconsistencies in their idea is because of "The conspiracy". :no: 

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Dark_Grey
6 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

You can't convince a die-hard conspiracy nut, because they can allways claim that any inconsistencies in their idea is because of "The conspiracy". :no: 

You just described the whole FE movement in a nutshell. 

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
31 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

You just described the whole FE movement in a nutshell. 

As a very wise man once said "Not everything is a conspiracy". :whistle:

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