I don't believe you

[freetoroam]

On 24/02/2019 at 7:20 AM, Habitat said:

Tedious, perhaps, but is the bolded not true to say ? I certainly would understand having someone telling you that you must hand your life over to Jesus (as if he needs another one to baby-sit !), would be tedious, even very annoying, but I don't understand how simple acceptance of the proposition in the quote box, would be a problem.

Oh its not a problem.  

I was sitting outside work one day having my coffee and was approached by a Jesus person from the happy clappy church,, very nice lady, but she just would not have it that i did not want her leaflet as i do not believe. It was all very amicable, but boy did keep going on..until she realised i was not budging and when i questioned her about evolusion and nature, she then decided to call it a day. Cheeky mare then said "may god be with you" as she walked off, i just laughed.

[Habitat]

9 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

as she walked off, i just laughed.

Not too derisively, one hopes !

[jmccr8]

On 2/20/2019 at 6:11 PM, Mr Walker said:

eligion/ faith/belief is often not really even about an after life but abut how to enjoy life on earth and make the world a better place, while you live 

Hi Walker

Exactly the reason that I am single and not married to a god.

jmccr8

[jmccr8]

On 2/20/2019 at 6:15 PM, Mr Walker said:

Why would we argue ?

Hi Walker

On the chance that you 2 are the only ones left standing.

jmccr8

[jmccr8]

On 2/20/2019 at 6:20 PM, Mr Walker said:

Why would Christianity collapse without miracles?

Buddhism didn't.

  Christianity can be, and is for many, a way of living, not a belief about miracles or life after death. It is known as a social gospel  and is  more predominant in Australia than Christianity based on miracles or eternal life.  

Hi Walker

Without the miracle of Christ the bible is pointless and as seen in these threads there is still some issue if Jesus was the Christ an opinion which is seen as a rejection of miracles in some circles that denies the truth of the book.

jmccr8

[jmccr8]

On 2/21/2019 at 1:46 AM, Unfortunately said:

That's an absolutely wonderful question, great post. Had to actually stop and have a good think about this.

For me personally, I consider the whole debate as more of an investigation. I tend to be quite skeptical about things and try to follow what verifiable evidence I can find (although I do still try to keep an open mind in regards to the absence of evidence if the person presents an intelligent/rational argument). As for arguing with people, it's a way for me to try and point out anything I believe to be flaws in their arguments as well as having others do the same for my own arguments. I like to pick everyone else's brain for why they believe what they do and compare it to my own beliefs.

I'm not out there to try and change anyone's mind, just trying to figure things out for myself. 

Hey Unfortunately

Wow (not woo) glad to see you back how is life?

jmccr8

[jmccr8]

On 2/21/2019 at 5:57 PM, Mr Walker said:

Not necessary  No two humans have an EXACT same construct about anything or any body. 

Hi Walker

Thanks for the heads up, I spent a month standing in a 2'x2' closet with a 1000 watt grow lamp on waiting to get healed from smoking.

jmccr8

[SHaYap]

On 2/25/2019 at 3:44 PM, freetoroam said:

Cheeky mare then said "may god be with you" as she walked off, i just laughed.

On one occasion i remember I did toss in a 'I do hope you are not evolved from the ape like creatures like the rest of humanity' and the chap retorted with a hearty 'I certainly do not' to which I made a rather over the top ' thank you god ' towards the heavens

~

[jmccr8]

On 2/21/2019 at 11:42 PM, danydandan said:

So are you happy to defend anyone's claims relating to God as long as they believe in God?

 

Hi Dany

Of course, they are free to create whatever construct works for them until they say something that Walker can correct them on.

jmccr8

[jmccr8]

On 2/22/2019 at 4:26 PM, Mr Walker said:

Think about what the poster has already said about themselves.

  I am not in a position (of either knowledge or comprehension)  to debate a person who is still suffering the effects of PTSD as a result of conflict,  and even if i was, I would not.  He is getting professional help, and that is the only advice i would give apart from some coping strategies 

Hi Walker

Nice out, he put you on the spot and this is your counter.

jmccr8

[jmccr8]

On 2/22/2019 at 5:04 PM, Mr Walker said:

Education has no effect on faith or belief although it can shape that belief eg more educated people still believe in gods but are less likely to believe in creation 

Hi Walker

Just to point out that I was raised in the Catholic school system and Christian ethics was a part of the process of indoctrination, public schools, on the other hand, were exempt from the school influence directly but were required to go to Sunday school. At times this was a point of contention as we only went to mass on Sunday and didn't spend the extra hour of bible thumping so were free to hit the pool or rink while the sun was shining(and maybe a black eye or two)

jmccr8

[Unfortunately]

1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Hey Unfortunately

Wow (not woo) glad to see you back how is life?

jmccr8

Life is life, up and down but that's what keeps things interesting. Cheers for asking.  You?

 

(In regards to the thread) Running on a different tangent, I feel like too many people are prepared to scream out their arguments passionately without even understanding the concept of what they're arguing about. People should do their own research and learn about the various aspects of each argument in order to use the knowledge to their advantage. Ignorance never usually helps with debating.

People need to expose themselves to each environment a bit to understand the perspectives that the other person is coming from. Makes it a learning experience for everyone. 

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Just to point out that I was raised in the Catholic school system and Christian ethics was a part of the process of indoctrination, public schools, on the other hand, were exempt from the school influence directly but were required to go to Sunday school. At times this was a point of contention as we only went to mass on Sunday and didn't spend the extra hour of bible thumping so were free to hit the pool or rink while the sun was shining(and maybe a black eye or two)

jmccr8

That is interesting. In Australia, public schools do just as much indoctrination, but rather  than religious values, it is humanist ie social, ethical, environmental, socialist  etc.  values , which the government holds to be right, that all children in govt schools are indoctrinated in.   

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Nice out, he put you on the spot and this is your counter.

jmccr8

That was my honest personal response, but also what i would say if counselling a person.   It also is the only response  allowable under the site rules on offering medical advice.  

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Dany

Of course, they are free to create whatever construct works for them until they say something that Walker can correct them on.

jmccr8

No that is not right 

 I can debate any ones construct of god but i think any construct is ok if it is positive and beneficial

There is not one true god but billions of them, each existing in a persons mind.

My other point was that (for me) there can be no debate about the existence of god.

That is a physical proven given to me.

  So, while people can tell me they don't believe in gods they might as well tell me they don't believe in dogs 

God for me is not a mental construct but a powerful physical being  How i see/perceive and relate to it is unique to me, but it's physical existence is indisputable.  I have to work very hard to stay polite with people who tell me that god does not exist,  based on their belief, and thus i cannot know it.     

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Thanks for the heads up, I spent a month standing in a 2'x2' closet with a 1000 watt grow lamp on waiting to get healed from smoking.

jmccr8

yet clearly you are still smoking something  

lol I had to read your post 3 times to get it.  

No. NEVER follow another person's god. It doesn't work. Go and find your own.  

[Mr Walker]

3 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Exactly the reason that I am single and not married to a god.

jmccr8

That one i still don't get, even after reading it 3 times. 

Life is better married, or connected to,  someone who loves you, than not.

  It doesn't mean you have to be subservient, or give up things you enjoy.

You negotiate all that between the two of you (this applies to a relationship with a partner or a god )\

In a healthy relationship you will gain more than you lose, but also each half of the  partnership  will be more empowered than if the y were alone, and the couple can achieve,more together than separately 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Mr Walker

[jmccr8]

On 3/13/2019 at 2:37 AM, Unfortunately said:

Life is life, up and down but that's what keeps things interesting. Cheers for asking.  You?

 

(In regards to the thread) Running on a different tangent, I feel like too many people are prepared to scream out their arguments passionately without even understanding the concept of what they're arguing about. People should do their own research and learn about the various aspects of each argument in order to use the knowledge to their advantage. Ignorance never usually helps with debating.

People need to expose themselves to each environment a bit to understand the perspectives that the other person is coming from. Makes it a learning experience for everyone. 

 

Hi Unfortunately

I am doing well thanks. There are some that don't argue and just go for the nuts or throat as my daddy taught me but then not everyone is a dinosaur like me. To be honest I don't care if people believe in fairies or what not just so long as they are socially safe.

jmccr8

 

[albie]

I have been debating on the web for 25 years and have never met someone who admitted they were wrong. As long as they respond, no matter how stupid the response, they feel they are stil debating.

BUt I know on some level I have dented their faith. That's why I continue to debate.

 

[Jodie.Lynne]

13 hours ago, albie said:

I have been debating on the web for 25 years and have never met someone who admitted they were wrong. As long as they respond, no matter how stupid the response, they feel they are stil debating.

BUt I know on some level I have dented their faith. That's why I continue to debate.

 

Thanks for the input!

Do you find that the more... aggressive the posts of the opponent become, that you feel you are gaining the higher ground?

[Habitat]

13 hours ago, albie said:

BUt I know on some level I have dented their faith. That's why I continue to debate

What faith are you referring to ?

[danydandan]

On 29/3/2019 at 1:20 PM, albie said:

I have been debating on the web for 25 years and have never met someone who admitted they were wrong. As long as they respond, no matter how stupid the response, they feel they are stil debating.

BUt I know on some level I have dented their faith. That's why I continue to debate.

 

You should read some of my posts, I'm wrong often.

Edited March 30, 2019 by danydandan

[preacherman76]

On 2/18/2019 at 10:07 PM, Jodie.Lynne said:

Imagine, if you will, a day when all the doubters, sceptics, atheists and general non-believers decided to give up trying to rationalize and discuss with believers on these forums.

That day would suck. However I’d love to see a day where said people didn’t take things so personally. Treating each other with respect could go a long way in making this a much better place. 

Quote

I suppose the ufo/crypto/psi/alternative history/ghosts & paranormal forums would all become echo chambers as the faithful of those areas run rampant, high-fiving each other and reinforcing their beliefs with anecdotal tales, spurious articles and dubious videos.

People who have experienced things like UFO’s or hauntings have no need to reinforce their beliefs. Personally I have experienced both, and don’t really care what others believe about them. I don’t usually take issue with others until they get angry that they can’t convince folks like myself of what I know to be true.

I do enjoy talking to others who have shared similar experiences though. Heck I enjoy talking with skeptics over matters I’m on the fence about. Which are many.

 

Quote

In the theological section, I think there would be a collected sigh of relief that the nasty rationalists had surrendered and given up the field. But I feel that it wouldn't take long for the true believers started to tear into one another, like blood frenzied sharks, as they argued over whose god-construct was real and whose was untenable. Soon enough, the same epithets and accusations that are levelled against the atheists, would be hurled against different factions of true believers.

For me, the belief or lack there of regarding God is a personal choice. I don’t judge anyone for either stance. I find it strange you have such a low opinion of believers though. I mean so what if they did have debates over which God was real? Why would you care? Why would that be such a horrible thing?

Quote

 

For now, there is an uneasy alliance between the believers of different deities, following the age-old principle of "The enemy of my enemy...", with doubters being the 'enemy'. While there are a few theists whose views I can admire and respect, most fall into the category of lesser respectable posters. Those who fall back on hyperbole, ridicule, and out right illogic when it comes to defending their claims.

You just described most of the skeptics I’ve spoken to here. Heck this very post seems to be about ridiculing those who you don’t agree with. 

Quote

As one erudite and wise man posted, and I am paraphrasing most horribly, "Why continue to try?" Words I took to heart as I reflected on my reasons, and made a decision to no longer debate, question, or try to understand others beliefs. As has been pointed out, faith is apparently a very personal thing, and cannot be demonstrated to another.

 

So, my question: 

Why do YOU continue to argue this issue?

In turn I’d ask why do cynic’s continue to insist they are only here because they want to find evidence of the things they don’t believe in? As if finding such a thing here on a message board is even possible. It’s funny, I’ve seen several times where an OP would flat out say that their particular thread isn’t about trying to convince anyone, yet right away are asked for proof, and evidence. And it’s insisted upon through the entire thread. Why?

Edited March 31, 2019 by preacherman76

[preacherman76]

On 2/25/2019 at 2:44 AM, freetoroam said:

Oh its not a problem.  

I was sitting outside work one day having my coffee and was approached by a Jesus person from the happy clappy church,, very nice lady, but she just would not have it that i did not want her leaflet as i do not believe. It was all very amicable, but boy did keep going on..until she realised i was not budging and when i questioned her about evolusion and nature, she then decided to call it a day. Cheeky mare then said "may god be with you" as she walked off, i just laughed.

It’s funny how people can see things so differently. Back when I insisted on preaching to everyone, you bringing up nature, would have been great. To me nature demands the idea of a creator. 

Anyhow, to each their own

[Jodie.Lynne]

14 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

I’ve seen several times where an OP would flat out say that their particular thread isn’t about trying to convince anyone, yet right away are asked for proof, and evidence. And it’s insisted upon through the entire thread. Why?

Because, if a person makes a claim about something, they should expect to back it up?

 

If I asked, "Who is the greatest baseball player ever?", I'm sure there would be a hundred answers, yeah?

Then my follow up question would be: "Why is he the best?" If your answer is "because", or "because I know" does that response mean anything?

Especially if someone else claims a different 'best player' and can back it up with stats and facts.

Personally, I really don't give a farthing what anyone believes anymore. As long as they don't try to enforce their religion, or their religious laws on me.