I don't believe you

[Piney]

18 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Why should I trust the words of a chainsaw wielding bunny?

That's why I stopped helping the haunted. You really can't take that avatar serious...

[XenoFish]

I wonder that in some cases another person beliefs "harm" us in some way. I don't mean all the time, but in certain cases and in certain ways. What is it about various beliefs that urk us so?

I know that the brain treats belief as fact. When a belief is challenged it creates a threat response. Which usually ends up in an argument about said belief. I know that beliefs typically have an emotional value. In the case of religious/spiritual beliefs it probably purely emotional. But why? Why hold onto a belief so firmly that anything that challenges it, is consider a violation?

We all saw what political beliefs can do in this thread. (Lets not repeat that okay)

[Piney]

3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

But why? Why hold onto a belief so firmly that anything that challenges it, is consider a violation?

My beliefs changed as I learned new things, so I never understood this. I think it might be because I was taught early to question everything and not have blind faith. 

But people should still have a little bit of pragmatism and see facts but they don't, and I could never wrap that around my head. 

[Jodie.Lynne]

5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Why hold onto a belief so firmly that anything that challenges it, is consider a violation?

You already have the answer: a challenge to what we hold dear invokes a threat response in the one challenged. 

No one likes to be told they are wrong, or are making a mistake, so we double down on those positions we hold.

[Piney]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

 But I'm not like a lot of you. I don't have a college degree in anything

I just thought of something....What exactly would I do with my seminarian certificate?

Build a altar out of Lego, make my Satanist chick harem wear nun hats and start the "Church of Cute and Fluffy Murderous Chainsaw Bunnies"?  

 

 

......wait a minute.....

[+Sherapy]

13 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I wonder that in some cases another person beliefs "harm" us in some way. I don't mean all the time, but in certain cases and in certain ways. What is it about various beliefs that urk us so?

I know that the brain treats belief as fact. When a belief is challenged it creates a threat response. Which usually ends up in an argument about said belief. I know that beliefs typically have an emotional value. In the case of religious/spiritual beliefs it probably purely emotional. But why? Why hold onto a belief so firmly that anything that challenges it, is consider a violation?

We all saw what political beliefs can do in this thread. (Lets not repeat that okay)

I think for some challenging their beliefs is like challenging who they are, their identity and this creates anxiety which triggers the  flight or fight response. 

For me, towards the end of my Atheist stage there was so much of me invested in the stance I don’t think I could see myself any other way. It also like fighting the fight after the threat was long gone, so there is habit involved too. There is an emotional attachment thing going on too, like hanging on to a relationship that you have outgrown.

In reality, there were no fireworks when I shifted to Agnosticism. 

For me, taking Philosophy was cathartic, my take away was I should never allow myself to be so invested in a belief system that I didn’t  question it or couldn’t let it go, if I can’t let it go then I need to figure out why. 

[XenoFish]

I think there is a difference between an educated assumption (belief) and a faith based belief. I do get the emotional appeal of certain beliefs. There value is in the meaning they give, same for purpose. A "higher ideal" in regards to our finite existence. Perhaps it makes the sting of death much easier to bear.

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

In reality, there were no fireworks when I shifted to Agnosticism. 

None for me either when I started studying the Taoist teachings in Tendai and stopped believing in spirits. 

[XenoFish]

Just now, Sherapy said:

I think for some challenging their beliefs is like challenging who they are, their identity and this creates anxiety which triggers the  flight or fight response. 

For me, towards the end of my Atheist stage there was so much of me invested in the stance I don’t think I could see myself any other way. It also like fighting the fight after the threat was long gone, so there is habit involved too. There is an emotional attachment thing going on too, like hanging on to a relationship that you have outgrown.

In reality, there were no fireworks when I shifted to Agnosticism. 

For me, taking Philosophy was cathartic, my take away was I should never allow myself to be so invested in a belief system that I didn’t  question it or couldn’t let it go, if I can’t let it go then I need to figure out why. 

This I fully get. Mindset plays a major part in all this. Many theist can't see an atheist point of views. Some atheist can not understand a theist perspective, agnostic really just don't know either way (probably the best stance). 

Agnosticism in my eyes is an either-or stance. Balanced. It's not directly assuming a yes or no answer, but a open curiosity towards either direction. Apatheist is not worrying about it. Yet each of these ideas cultivate it's own mindset. A model of reality. What I've noticed is that those who believe in ghost "see more ghost", because they are looking for them and the mind will fabricate them. It's the same thing that allows people to see "god" in everything. 

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, Piney said:

None for me either when I started studying the Taoist teachings in Tendai and stopped believing in spirits. 

Once my occult view was shattered, I think I was filled with raw hatred for it. Though the perk was a learned a lot about the mind. At least I've got the working for me.

[+Sherapy]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I think there is a difference between an educated assumption (belief) and a faith based belief. I do get the emotional appeal of certain beliefs. There value is in the meaning they give, same for purpose. A "higher ideal" in regards to our finite existence. Perhaps it makes the sting of death much easier to bear.

For me, death isn’t so scary that I need a belief construct to cope with the anxiety. 

But, it could be for some. 

My atheism helped me cope with my childhood as I was living through it, if I would have put my faith into “god” my sisters and I would have starved. 

It motivated me

For me, Atheism lit a fire under me, but then there came  a time I didn’t need to survive anymore, the threat was gone, the time was to let it go and move on.

I have moved on to incredible peace. 

And, I might be a weirdo but for me there will come a day that I will be ready to let go of this life too. 

 

[XenoFish]

A loss of faith (spiritual) could cause someone to become depressed, most due to the emotional energy they've put into their belief. It gave meaning to their existence. Though I would hope that if they found a new faith, they would temper it with reason and logic. 

[+Sherapy]

8 minutes ago, Piney said:

None for me either when I started studying the Taoist teachings in Tendai and stopped believing in spirits. 

For me, it was like well let’s do this I am a Zen Buddhist now ( don’t know shyt about it ) but that it is peaceful and that is all I need to know. Lol 

I am done with the dogma, just going natural now.

[+Sherapy]

7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Once my occult view was shattered, I think I was filled with raw hatred for it. Though the perk was a learned a lot about the mind. At least I've got the working for me.

For me, humility was born, I really don’t know and I am fine with it. It was years getting to this though. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Sherapy

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

For me, death isn’t so scary that I need a belief construct to cope with the anxiety. 

But, it could be for some. 

My atheism helped me cope with my childhood as I was living through it, if I would have put my faith into “god” my sisters and I would have starved. 

It motivated me

For me, Atheism lit a fire under me, but then there came  a time I didn’t need to survive anymore, the threat was gone, the time was to let it go and move on.

I have moved on to incredible peace. 

And, I might be a weirdo but for me there will come a day that I will be ready to let go of this life too. 

 

Magick to me was about having control and power in my life. Because I felt powerless constantly. It was also an act of spiritual defiance. I found atheism to be too cold for my liking. Even my nihilism was just an extension of a pessimistic mindset that allowed me to drown out all my feelings into nothingness. Yet that was also a dead end. 

Now I'm focused on more "Just do it" than woo. Sure if new information that would change my view is presented, I'd adjust. Till then I'm kinda "meh" towards it all. 

I consider death "the long sleep". 

[Guyver]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Why are farts funny? 

While serving in the United States Army, I watched a guy named “Gus” light a fart on fire.

Its one of those things you can’t “unsee” and you will never forget it.  

[+Sherapy]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Magick to me was about having control and power in my life. Because I felt powerless constantly. It was also an act of spiritual defiance. I found atheism to be too cold for my liking. Even my nihilism was just an extension of a pessimistic mindset that allowed me to drown out all my feelings into nothingness. Yet that was also a dead end. 

Now I'm focused on more "Just do it" than woo. Sure if new information that would change my view is presented, I'd adjust. Till then I'm kinda "meh" towards it all. 

I consider death "the long sleep". 

I think you have done a fine job of looking within, and finding your own wisdom. 

For me, I just wanted peace at the end of my rainbow and I was delaying it myself with my own mental static.

I did yoga a lot thru my transitory phase, my mat and the poses became my sanctuary and with my inner wisdom I learned to listen and get out of my own way, I would just  breathe, ground myself and let go to the moment whatever it was. 

In time Life became peaceful and when it isn’t, I just breath, ground and let go. 

[+Hammerclaw]

2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Sure it's peaceful enough. But I'm not like a lot of you. I don't have a college degree in anything, did horrible in school, and don't really have anything brag worth. Sure I've done quite a few things, but sometimes I feel like the dumbest guy in the room. 

Only smart people think they're stupid. Stupid people are too dumb to even know. You are an exceptional human being; unlike half the population, you have excellent reading and composition skills.

[+Hammerclaw]

4 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I wonder that in some cases another person beliefs "harm" us in some way. I don't mean all the time, but in certain cases and in certain ways. What is it about various beliefs that urk us so?

I know that the brain treats belief as fact. When a belief is challenged it creates a threat response. Which usually ends up in an argument about said belief. I know that beliefs typically have an emotional value. In the case of religious/spiritual beliefs it probably purely emotional. But why? Why hold onto a belief so firmly that anything that challenges it, is consider a violation?

We all saw what political beliefs can do in this thread. (Lets not repeat that okay)

Anything one has an irrational fear of is harmful--not the thing, the fear. Such fears usual arise from sources intimate yet external to oneself. Sometimes it's a bad thing that happened that something is a reminder of, which causes one anguish and fear. Sometimes, it's  something otherwise innocent and innocuous that evokes memories of departed dear one's. One such of mine is watermelon, a beloved summer treat my father enjoyed and shared with us. I can't eat any now, because of the pain and realization of his absence it causes. Foolish and irrational and quintessentially human of me.

[eight bits]

6 hours ago, Habitat said:

The "Walker Stalkers" are still "on the case" !  Despite being portrayed as a fantasizing "hick" wasting his days telling dubious tales on the internet, it is obvious he holds an irresistible fascination for some. No, I don't understand it at all.  But I guess its a mutually satisfying arrangement. and I should keep out of it ! Which I do, till the nastiness creeps in.

You should think about why nastiness attracts you,

But the Walker phenomenon isn't a deep mystery. Much of what skeptics get out of the UM game is solving puzzles. Day in and day out are the short-form kibble puzzles: the errant camera straps, the ouija boards that ... well, anything with a ouija board. They're fun, but not a nourishing diet, and let's face it, when you've seen one orb, you really have seen 'em all.

In contrast, Mr Walker offers a Russian novel of woo. Where else can you find in the same thread God manifesting as truck headlights, the scoop on how slavery is an enlightened but misunderstood institution, why Eve didn't mind Adam throwing her under the bus, plus a tutorial on maximizing your tax advantage when making charitable gifts in Australia? There's nothing else like it on the whole web!

And while on other boards here at UM there is constant complaining about "drive-by" posters, Mr Walker has been at this for years and years. There's always something new - it looks like maybe we're going to have a gangster story arc sometime soon. All that, and he can prove that ten years ago he was sane.

What is rare is valued, and only a very few other posters have ever put half as much effort into playing the fox for us beagles to chase. I assume that from the foxy point of view, the fun is in making the beagles work (and that ultimately, we can't really bite).

You know this is BS; it couldn't possibly be anything but BS, BUT you can't prove that it's BS, so I win.

Or can we? And the game is on.

It's a sport, Habbie. You're at a football (soccer) match, and you're wondering "Why do all those folks in the red shirts want to kick the ball at the nice man in the blue shirt who's dancing in front of the net?"

It's fun. Fun for the folks in the red shirts, and I suspect fun for the nice man in the blue shirt, too. In all these years, he's only been scored upon twice. Prove him wrong about that.

[jmccr8]

57 minutes ago, eight bits said:

You should think about why nastiness attracts you,

But the Walker phenomenon isn't a deep mystery. Much of what skeptics get out of the UM game is solving puzzles. Day in and day out are the short-form kibble puzzles: the errant camera straps, the ouija boards that ... well, anything with a ouija board. They're fun, but not a nourishing diet, and let's face it, when you've seen one orb, you really have seen 'em all.

In contrast, Mr Walker offers a Russian novel of woo. Where else can you find in the same thread God manifesting as truck headlights, the scoop on how slavery is an enlightened but misunderstood institution, why Eve didn't mind Adam throwing her under the bus, plus a tutorial on maximizing your tax advantage when making charitable gifts in Australia? There's nothing else like it on the whole web!

And while on other boards here at UM there is constant complaining about "drive-by" posters, Mr Walker has been at this for years and years. There's always something new - it looks like maybe we're going to have a gangster story arc sometime soon. All that, and he can prove that ten years ago he was sane.

What is rare is valued, and only a very few other posters have ever put half as much effort into playing the fox for us beagles to chase. I assume that from the foxy point of view, the fun is in making the beagles work (and that ultimately, we can't really bite).

You know this is BS; it couldn't possibly be anything but BS, BUT you can't prove that it's BS, so I win.

Or can we? And the game is on.

It's a sport, Habbie. You're at a football (soccer) match, and you're wondering "Why do all those folks in the red shirts want to kick the ball at the nice man in the blue shirt who's dancing in front of the net?"

It's fun. Fun for the folks in the red shirts, and I suspect fun for the nice man in the blue shirt, too. In all these years, he's only been scored upon twice. Prove him wrong about that.

Hi Eight bits

Well said and I couldn't give a laugh and thank you

so here it is.

jmccr8

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by jmccr8
not sure but did it anyway

[+Hammerclaw]

Personally, I think Mr Walker is a good fellow, a garrulous old charlatan who posts outrageous stuff and delights in the ensuing controversy and relishes the attention. It's all harmless fun and he presents an irresistible windmill for myriad posters to take a tilt at.  It does go without question that some take him far too serious.

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

Personally, I think Mr Walker is a good fellow, a garrulous old charlatan who posts outrageous stuff and delights in the ensuing controversy and relishes the attention. It's all harmless fun and he presents an irresistible windmill for myriad posters to take a tilt at.  It does go without question that some take him far too serious.

 And I quite like him. 

 

2 hours ago, eight bits said:

 he's only been scored upon twice.

[Habitat]

2 hours ago, eight bits said:

You should think about why nastiness attracts you,

I notice it, it doesn't attract me.

[XenoFish]

Pretty much sums up every thread.