I don't believe you

[Harte]

16 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Oh come now Sheri darling. Look at all the proof. You've seen it. Surely a person such as myself barely has any working brain cells. Since I can not possible comprehend anything at all ever. I mean what the hell have I been doing all this time. (that's sarcasm)

How dare I even question such spiritual masters? 

Try writing some animal names backwards first.

Harte

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Harte said:

This has been discussed to death.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/325690-i-dont-believe-you/?page=152&tab=comments#comment-6743311

Harte

Now it's undead.

[+Hammerclaw]

43 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I've come to the conclusion due to the past couple of pages that I must be an epic moron. Yep, a bonafide idiot.

Maybe he left the second M out.

[GoldenWolf]

1 hour ago, Essan said:

A point I have made numerous times.

In order to discuss God one must first define what God is.

If God is just an anthropomorphism of nature - which it appears in most cases to be, and certainly was originally - then I think everyone believes in God. 

 

I reject the idea of anthropomorphism of God and nature, that is an insult to animists.  "God" is a narcissistic human, like thousands of cult leaders the world over.  Self styled.

[Will Due]

14 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Yawn.

 

Short it is then.

 

 

[Ozymandias]

2 hours ago, oslove said:

The trouble with everyone here is that they are not intelligent enough as to first and foremost work as to concur on the concept of God.

That is what I find to be always un-intelligent with folks who write endlessly against the others on an issue, like the existence of God - they always all of them refuse to work first and foremost as to concur on the concept over which they are debating endlessly on its existence or non-existence, in the present context, the concept or definition of God.

So, I challenge everyone here to tell me what is their respective concept of God Which they are arguing forever to be existing, or to be not existing.

Dear readers, let us all sit back and await with bated breath to read if any at all, anyone coming forth to tell us what is their concept of God.

Here is my concept of God:

In concept God is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

I tell you, if you don't have this concept of God, then you are un-intelligent with talking pro or anti the existence of God.

Even for folks here who  fancy themselves to be apatheist, they are also un-intelligent for at all reading on the debate God exists or not; to be intelligent at all you guys should not at all read anything about the debate, unless as I said you are un-intelligent: intelligence requires you to be totally out and away altogether from this debate - the fact that you are reading is an indication that you are not apatheist, but observing at least to discern who is intelligent and who not, starting however with yourselves first - you are not intelligent because you as you proclaim yourselves to be apatheist, then you are un-intelligently wasting your time and trouble to read the debate.

Wow!!! That is such a complicated and contorted dive into gymnastic verbosity that you seem to have drowned yourself in a pool of waffle.

[Bolded] - so by your own criteria you are not intelligent

[+Pettytalk]

4 hours ago, oslove said:

Only un-intelligent humans deny the existence of motor vehicles, because they are not intelligent enough to comprehend how it works with a fellow human operating it

 

[+Pettytalk]

4 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I can't even fathom the mind of god. Since there is no set god, and not proof of it, and every religion has its own idea of it. It's more a philosophical question than a science based one. Since there isn't a set idea of god then no one know god, which means people are just making it up. If you can't define god, then why do people define god? If god can not be know, why do people claim to know? I mean who think of stuff like this? 

I have seen Him!

 

[+Pettytalk]

Most of the posts on this thread seem to make more sense after a few glasses of wine. Or if sober, after seeing the movie, O God..

 

[SHaYap]

On 5/23/2019 at 6:37 AM, DieChecker said:

Does a thundershower count as busting a nut?

The left or the right? 

~

On 5/23/2019 at 8:55 AM, Harte said:

Who's that looking at the crack of dawn?

Harte

They who watches for the river of blood... 

~

[+DieChecker]

20 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Why repent if Jesus has already died for and paid for all sins?  Doesn't that alone make you as clean as you can ever possibly be?

Yes and no. The short of it is we still sin and need to confess. Jesus's dead created the auto-forgive for those sins that are confessed.

So all sins are always forgiven. But the sinner must ask.

Here is a similar themed article.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/if-all-my-sins-are-forgiven-why-must-i-continue-to-repent/

[+DieChecker]

6 hours ago, third_eye said:

The left or the right? 

~

The Right. Always do the right thing.

[+Liquid Gardens]

3 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Yes and no. The short of it is we still sin and need to confess. Jesus's dead created the auto-forgive for those sins that are confessed.

So all sins are always forgiven. But the sinner must ask.

Fair enough, but that's a significant qualification on 'paid for all sins'.  'All sins' are not 'always' forgiven if the sinner must also confess; unconfessed sins are apparently not forgiven, which amounts to a lot of sins.  To me this makes Jesus a little more superfluous; too bad the Father couldn't have just allowed confessed sins to be forgiven period and save Jesus quite a bit of needless agony.

[+DieChecker]

12 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Fair enough, but that's a significant qualification on 'paid for all sins'.  'All sins' are not 'always' forgiven if the sinner must also confess; unconfessed sins are apparently not forgiven, which amounts to a lot of sins.  To me this makes Jesus a little more superfluous; too bad the Father couldn't have just allowed confessed sins to be forgiven period and save Jesus quite a bit of needless agony.

Imagine it like a horse race. Where all horses always win, so all bets made always win. But if you never put down a bet, you can't win.

You can't be auto forgiven unless you ask.

[+Pettytalk]

44 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Imagine it like a horse race. Where all horses always win, so all bets made always win. But if you never put down a bet, you can't win.

You can't be auto forgiven unless you ask.

To be sure not to die without having confessed a sin, my approach is to always confess before committing the sin.

[+Liquid Gardens]

11 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Imagine it like a horse race. Where all horses always win, so all bets made always win. But if you never put down a bet, you can't win.

Hmm, I'm missing the analogy. Jesus died so that all horses win, who cannot sin anyway?  To me, it seems like the scenario is that if Jesus did not come here and die, people could be repenting and confessing their sins and it wouldn't make any difference, God would not forgive them.  Jesus did come here and die but to be more accurate he only made a down-payment for our sins, we aren't forgiven unless we repent. It's more like Jesus said, "c'mon Dad, don't be so heartless, at least give them a chance', which to me is quite a distance from 'paid for all our sins'.

42 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

You can't be auto forgiven unless you ask.

'Asking' is a manual operation and required for forgiveness, so that provides a big qualifier on 'auto' forgiven.  To contrast, I was born in the US and thus am automatically a citizen, I didn't have to do anything, it was truly 'auto'.

[+Pettytalk]

1 minute ago, Liquid Gardens said:

To contrast, I was born in the US and thus am automatically a citizen, I didn't have to do anything, it was truly 'auto'.

Trump will undo that too, automatically. Only those born in wealth, besides in the USA, will automatically be considered citizens. He may also put further qualifications into the equation, such as color of skin, color of eyes, etc...

[Will Due]

 

How about we all get past the "Jesus died for our sins" bit.

He didn't die to atone for sin. That's a misconception. It isn't true.

He was murdered because he taught liberation from church authority. And the priests did not like that.

Jesus taught the way to make progress in how to do God's will. And being free to take responsibility for it personally. No priest, no church authority required.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2019 by Will Due

[Essan]

You can see the attraction of some Christian sects though:  I can rape and murder dozens of children, steal and lie and cheat, be totally nasty to everyone,every day of my life, even be responsible for wiping out the human race*, and yet all I have to do is say sorry on my death bed and I go to heaven. 

Whereas goody two shoes who spent his entire life being nice and caring and helping others, but stole a small bar of chocolate from the supermarket when he was 16. and then forgot all about it, goes to hell for being an unrepentant sinner.





* admittedly this would possibly be a very very very good thing.  Unless you are a human  

[+Pettytalk]

The only way sins are paid is by serving time in hell. It's a misconception that Jesus pays for others' sin. If he shed his blood to cleanse all of us, as put forth by the biggest sinners of all, the preachers and teachers of this biggest sin of all, then what is the meaning of these kind of passages, if one has only to confess and ask to be forgiven?

The Narrow Door
…23“Lord,” someone asked Him, “will only a few people be saved?” Jesus answered, 24“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able. 25After the master of the house gets up and shuts the door, you will stand outside knocking and saying, ‘Lord, open the door for us.’ But he will reply, ‘I do not know where you are from.’…

A Tree and its Fruit
…21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’…

Reconcile quickly with your adversary, while you are still on the way to court. Otherwise he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny. 27You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.…

The only way to avoid spending a great deal of time in hell is to do God's will as much as possible. Still, hell is for everyone, even if only for a day. What is doing God's will?  Well that's another thread!

[Will Due]

 

The Father forgives sin BEFORE you ask.

Contingent that you forgive those who transgress against you.

 

 

[+Desertrat56]

Just now, Will Due said:

 

The Father forgives sin BEFORE you ask.

Contingent that you forgive those who transgress against you.

 

 

There is always a catch isn't there.

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

There is always a catch isn't there.

 

Yeah, just like with everything.

It's the Way. 

 

 

[+Pettytalk]

12 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

There is always a catch isn't there.

Apparently life is not free, as there is a catch to it. We must die to have life, besides suffering a lot, and enjoying much less. In other words, looking at life from a physical perspective, which may just turn out to be the only perspective, we are born only to die. They say that the end justifies the beginning, and all that is in between. Therefore death is the reason as to why we are born. Therefore, again, death is our goal in life!

It would seem that our objective is really to die well, in contrast with dying badly.

[+Liquid Gardens]

40 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

It's a misconception that Jesus pays for others' sin.

Ephesians 1:7 

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Romans 6:23 

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Peter 1:18-19 

Knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

1 Peter 2:24

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

 

The same book you are quoting to show this supposed 'misconception' does a good job of supporting it also.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Liquid Gardens