I don't believe you

[+Pettytalk]

29 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Yeah, just like with everything.

It's the Way. 

 

 

It's the way back to where we really belong, one and all, but only after the game is over, and the rewards and punishments are dished out on that special day; Judgment Day. Not till then, will anyone be allowed to go back to our native stars. And we all have our own star to go back to.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Pettytalk

[XenoFish]

49 minutes ago, Essan said:

You can see the attraction of some Christian sects though:  I can rape and murder dozens of children, steal and lie and cheat, be totally nasty to everyone,every day of my life, even be responsible for wiping out the human race*, and yet all I have to do is say sorry on my death bed and I go to heaven. 

Wait a minute. What if all that nastiness was really god's will all along? 

[XenoFish]

Here's something to think about. Since God can not be known or defined. Then all believers are worshiping false gods. Every single one of them. 

[Will Due]

17 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Ephesians 1:7 

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Romans 6:23 

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Peter 1:18-19 

Knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

1 Peter 2:24

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

 

The same book you are quoting to show this supposed 'misconception' does a good job of supporting it also.

 

Haven't you pointed out that there are errors and misconceptions in the book?

 

 

[eight bits]

24 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

The same book you are quoting to show this supposed 'misconception' does a good job of supporting it also.

Par for the course

[+Pettytalk]

42 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Ephesians 1:7 

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Romans 6:23 

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Peter 1:18-19 

Knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

1 Peter 2:24

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

 

The same book you are quoting to show this supposed 'misconception' does a good job of supporting it also.

Paul and his teaching has led many astray. Paul relentlessly persecuted the first Jews to become Christians. He schemed a way to bar the doors for all future Christians by faking his conversion. And he had such a fanatic dislike and hate for the early Jew converts that he, like a suicide bomber of our times, went as far as be willing to become a martyr for his cause, and not Christ's cause.

Peter was one that denied Christ 3 times, because he was afraid of death, and the founder, along with Paul, of the greatest evil since the Pharisees and the Scribes, the Roman Catholic Church.

What was cited before is considered as being uttered by Jesus Himself, directly. 

Edited May 24, 2019 by Pettytalk

[+Pettytalk]

33 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Here's something to think about. Since God can not be known or defined. Then all believers are worshiping false gods. Every single one of them. 

Speak for yourself, I know God personally, and He is my Father, as well as yours. And unfortunately that makes us brothers.

[+Pettytalk]

45 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Wait a minute. What if all that nastiness was really god's will all along? 

God works in Mysterious ways, as well as in nasty ways. He teaches His children both sides of the coin. The world of opposites, you know?

[XenoFish]

Religious fanatics are odd people.

[+Pettytalk]

28 minutes ago, eight bits said:

Par for the course

9 holes course for most. Especially for those that "yawn"

As far as payment, with eight bits you can get out of 8 holes, but that still leaves you in Limbo. Which means you have to wait till Jesus returns to get out of hell all together.

[+Pettytalk]

3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Religious fanatics are odd people.

Are we even?

[+Liquid Gardens]

43 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Haven't you pointed out that there are errors and misconceptions in the book?

I have.  Not sure what your point is?  Why are you mentioning this to me and not Pettytalk, whose selected quotes from the same error strewn book I am replying to?

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I have.  Not sure what your point is?  Why are you mentioning this to me and not Pettytalk, whose selected quotes from the same error strewn book I am replying to?

 

There are always things in holy books (regarding their accuracy) that need to be reckoned with. Just like with a lot of other things in life. 

My point is that there are many things in the Bible that are regularly commented on as being hard to believe. Blood sacrifice is perhaps the main one. So if the other things can be dismissed, why not that too.

Then what's left, is for a person to come to terms with what's actually true in a holy book. Which of course, are many things.

 

 

[+Pettytalk]

9 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I have.  Not sure what your point is?  Why are you mentioning this to me and not Pettytalk, whose selected quotes from the same error strewn book I am replying to?

The Books are intentionally written that way, as it's part of the game. Those that are able to decipher the content and put it in the correct perspective are those that will reap more of the rewards, while avoiding much of the punishments.

[+Liquid Gardens]

29 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

What was cited before is considered as being uttered by Jesus Himself, directly. 

Not by actual historians it's not.  What I cited is considered to be the word of God and divinely inspired scripture.  If you have some way to differentiate between which 'consideration' is the accurate one, and have some evidence for it, I'm all ears.  Mere stories about what Jesus said and meant are no better than mere stories about what Paul said Jesus said and meant. 

If the theory is that words in the New Testament are exact quotes from 2000 years ago from Jesus, that pretty much requires divine intervention to have survived this long in translation from oral to written form without inaccuracies being introduced.  That divine intervention didn't seem to fully take in all cases as even the gospels seem to have discrepancies. Once divine intervention is in play, then that means that Peter and Paul may have been divinely inspired to record the 'true' meaning; again, if you have some way to argue that Jesus' words have been divinely retained but P&P's were not divinely inspired, beyond your personal faith of course, I'd be interested to see it.

[+Pettytalk]

2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

There are always things in holy books (regarding their accuracy) that need to be reckoned with. Just like with a lot of other things in life. 

My point is that there are many things in the Bible that are regularly commented on as being hard to believe. Blood sacrifice is perhaps the main one. So if the other things can be dismissed, why not that too.

Then what's left, is for a person to come to terms with what's actually true in a holy book. Which of course, are many things.

 

 

What is left is the meat of of the thing. Jesus "boiled" it down to just two of the ten main commandments. And we have blood sausage.

The Greatest Commandment

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ ^c 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ ^d 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

[Will Due]

 

Always expecting someone to "give you" the evidence doesn't work.

Never has. Never will.

Still, everyone is responsible for it personally. The decisions made on the evidence a person makes available themselves.

 

 

[+Liquid Gardens]

11 minutes ago, Will Due said:

There are always things in holy books (regarding their accuracy) that need to be reckoned with. Just like with a lot of other things in life. 

My point is that there are many things in the Bible that are regularly commented on as being hard to believe. Blood sacrifice is perhaps the main one. So if the other things can be dismissed, why not that too.

Ha, you don't need to tell me that holy books can be dismissed, I already do that. 

There's nothing more that we 'need' to reckon with in the holy books we're referring to than there is to reckon with Game of Thrones, and GOT has a lot better story while being no less believable.  For the Bible I mostly agree with the old saying, 'what's good in the Bible is not new; what's new in the Bible is not good'; I can get the only things of value I think it contains from many other sources.

[+Pettytalk]

6 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Not by actual historians it's not.  What I cited is considered to be the word of God and divinely inspired scripture.  If you have some way to differentiate between which 'consideration' is the accurate one, and have some evidence for it, I'm all ears.  Mere stories about what Jesus said and meant are no better than mere stories about what Paul said Jesus said and meant. 

If the theory is that words in the New Testament are exact quotes from 2000 years ago from Jesus, that pretty much requires divine intervention to have survived this long in translation from oral to written form without inaccuracies being introduced.  That divine intervention didn't seem to fully take in all cases as even the gospels seem to have discrepancies. Once divine intervention is in play, then that means that Peter and Paul may have been divinely inspired to record the 'true' meaning; again, if you have some way to argue that Jesus' words have been divinely retained but P&P's were not divinely inspired, beyond your personal faith of course, I'd be interested to see it.

See it? There are only two commandments that anyone should looked at, as the rest of those books you can make toilet paper out of the pages, if one is not so delicate and spoiled by having used charming words, or charming toilet paper all their lives.

[+Liquid Gardens]

1 minute ago, Pettytalk said:

See it? There are only two commandments that anyone should looked at, as the rest of those books you can make toilet paper out of the pages, if one is not so delicate and spoiled by having used charming words, or charming toilet paper all their lives.

No, I don't see it, and this doesn't really address my objection.  My same questions apply to the only two commandments you personally think should be looked at.  You agree that some of it is toilet paper and is incorrect and evil, but some of it is not.  How are you telling the difference?  If you don't have an answer to this, then it's difficult not to see the above and some of your other comments as mere preaching.

[Will Due]

46 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Ha, you don't need to tell me that holy books can be dismissed, I already do that. 

There's nothing more that we 'need' to reckon with in the holy books we're referring to than there is to reckon with Game of Thrones, and GOT has a lot better story while being no less believable.  For the Bible I mostly agree with the old saying, 'what's good in the Bible is not new; what's new in the Bible is not good'; I can get the only things of value I think it contains from many other sources.

 

https://youtu.be/qsmYUqzWHn4

 

 

Edited May 24, 2019 by Will Due

[lightly]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Here's something to think about. Since God can not be known or defined. Then all believers are worshiping false gods. Every single one of them. 

.....or,  if "God can not be known"   People are worshiping unknown Gods?

i'm a believer of sorts.. Mostly due to life experiences and feelings.  To me "God" is the mystery of all existence and creation.

i always come back to the same idea...if the universe was ONE..(a singularity).  it still IS.    I can't explain God or the Universe.

 

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, lightly said:

I can't explain God or the Universe.

 

You just did.

 

 

[+Pettytalk]

8 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Ha, you don't need to tell me that holy books can be dismissed, I already do that. 

There's nothing more that we 'need' to reckon with in the holy books we're referring to than there is to reckon with Game of Thrones, and GOT has a lot better story while being no less believable.  For the Bible I mostly agree with the old saying, 'what's good in the Bible is not new; what's new in the Bible is not good'; I can get the only things of value I think it contains from many other sources.

But the game of thrones is nothing compared with our game of life. But if you can get a good understanding of the rules of this game from others sources, which there are for certain, then you are well on the road to true happiness. However, deciphering things of value, which in effect are just the rules of our game, are a bit tricky because of all the traps that have been laid out by our Master game maker, God. I always recommend Socrates as the best source for things of value. There are others, no doubt!

And here, my dear Glaucon, is the supreme peril of our human state; and therefore the utmost care should be taken. Let each one of us leave every other kind of knowledge and seek and follow one thing only, if peradventure he may be able to learn and may find some one who will make him able to learn and discern between good and evil, and so to choose always and everywhere the better life as he has opportunity.

[+Pettytalk]

22 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

No, I don't see it, and this doesn't really address my objection.  My same questions apply to the only two commandments you personally think should be looked at.  You agree that some of it is toilet paper and is incorrect and evil, but some of it is not.  How are you telling the difference?  If you don't have an answer to this, then it's difficult not to see the above and some of your other comments as mere preaching.

Come on you know I don't preach! I do warn though. Warn of things to come. That's my perceived mission in life. I'm under the direct control of Providence. And I may be the last to give out the last warning to mankind, the last call for drinks at a bar that is approaching the closing hour. The hour is fast approaching. 

Anyway, as far as your perception of my having selecting those two commandments, it was not mine to select, clearly, as it was Jesus, if we can rely on Providence as the inspiration for those writs. Again, it's all a game, and there is nothing incorrect in the holy texts, all of them and of every religion, and not just the ones in question here. Everything was written by our Creator before man jotted it down on paper or stone or wood, or anywhere else in nature, and every word has a specific function, and serves the overall mission of the game of life.