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Jodie.Lynne

I don't believe you

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Aquila King

Lord Bigot gets political out of nowhere, and no matter how hard I try we can't seem to avoid the topic ever since... :mellow:

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Hammerclaw
8 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Lord Bigot gets political out of nowhere, and no matter how hard I try we can't seem to avoid the topic ever since... :mellow:

I'm Not Wild About Harry, either--just for the record.

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I'm Not Wild About Harry, either--just for the record.

I don't think any of us are and I hate politics. 

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XenoFish

I don't think I should mention my weekly pay. But I do know that a comfortable living can be created by micro managing money. Just depends on what defines comfortable. 

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Will do
44 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

none of the employees will ever be millionaires.

 

They could be, if they start their own business. 

 

 

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Mr Walker
8 hours ago, Aquila King said:

Odd that you want to flip the "disparaging narrative" like that. My entire argument is that you are the ones being disparaging towards those who've worked just as hard but are simply less fortunate than you by slandering them as "lazy" for "not working hard enough."

I'm not saying that people's hard work isn't a significant factor in their success, so if you think I'm trying to take that sense of accomplishment away from people then I'm sorry, but I can assure you I'm not.

I'm merely saying that there are plenty of people who work just as hard in life and don't have the same outcomes as others. Not everyone has an equal opportunity, that just isn't a natural in-built guarantee. So to suggest that it is, is to disparage the less fortunate.

Good points

However, in the end, the difference in outcome goes to the differences in the people.

As i explained with my family, we all improved on our parent's position financially, but one is in the very rich category two, in the rich category and i am in the comfortable category.

This happened because we were all different people  with different priorities and drives.

The richest of us married, and is a partner with,  a  bloke who began work as a young country mechanic,   who  built his own 40 foot steel hulled fishing boat  in his back yard, over about 10 years, and went fishing in the great Australian Bight.  During that time she bought and ran a number of school buses, taking kids to govt schools in the country. They then sold up those  businesses, remortgaged their home and invested in oyster farming.   It took another 30 years of hard work by them both,  but they are  now probably worth close to 100 million dollars with an income of   several million per year.  

I was looking for a more secure, less risky, job and i loved school and learning , so i became a teacher.  The others all left school before completing high school, yet made a lot more money than i ever did  because they risked everything to do so  :) My younger brother went fishing form the age of about 16 Despite being very sea sick and losing several stone in weight every season,  he persevered for a few years and made enough money to buy a good block of land which became collateral for his first house.  He then went as a worker on highway construction before joining the railways and working his way up to a train examiner. With his spare cash he invested in property and now owns about a million dollars worth. including an apartment in Melbourne's CBD       

Edited by Mr Walker

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Mr Walker
8 hours ago, Aquila King said:

So, in an effort to get things back on track...

No they're not. Not anymore anyway.

Faith as is commonly used, refers to believing something without any rational basis or evidence to do so. There may be a rational basis for why doing so in the days of hunters-gatherers might be beneficial. Essentially, how superstition often puts people on high alert to avoid dangers. But in the modern world, it's completely unnecessary.

Today's threats mostly come in the form of illnesses, or financial troubles, etc. We aren't hunting on the plains of Africa anymore where we can be attacked by wild lions or whatnot.

Psychology and reality say they are 

Religious faith is just one aspect of human faith and belief.

If you  have no faith in yourself your social and political systems your friends your future etc., you will not survive, or at least will never be happy and prosperous.  

Our minds tell us many possibilities and disasters which may befall us They warn us that death awaits us all.   Hope and faith allow us to believe that we will survive each day, prosper, and be happy, or at least content.

A very interesting fact is that as societies become more materially prosperous, humans become less mentally  well, and less happy. Thus, in many western societies suicide and depression is at record levels, with suicide often being the most common cause of death among younger people (In Australia it is the greatest cause of death under 40 ) 

Faith is taking things on trust, and via  belief in them. without requiring proofs. We almost all operate using this principle without even realising it. But when we lose hope and faith in ; life, purpose, meaning,  and self, we lose our reason for living. 

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Mr Walker
7 hours ago, danydandan said:

You are missing the point. You're either being deliberately disingenuous (deceptive) and trying to sway a conversation a certain way or you're not as shwerd as you imagine yourself to be.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD.

It is about reading a book, in this case the Bible, accepting it in it's entirety as truthful with not one other supporting document or sources. Then turning around and trying to adhere to the application of the scientific method in your profession or other aspects of your life. It's completely inconsistent!

IMO it is you who doesn't get it, or the thinking of those people

They believe somethings in faith

Otherwise they operate using science

There is no inconsistency Our minds are actually evolved to use this duality of thinking  (as well as other methods such as intuition and emotional intelligence) 

You would like us to ONLY think in scientific ways.  The problem with this is that science doesn't answer some of the questions our minds ask, or meet some of the needs we have as human beings.

 Iit does not  "enable"  creativity, imagination, compassion, altruism,  etc., either.  

We area able to believe what we choose to believe based on what we need to believe, without this affecting how we deal with work or the material aspects of our existence.

I am not the best one to argue this as i cant believe in things on faith but most people can and do.

There is no reason you cant be a brilliant physicist, yet believe there are fairies in the bottom of your garden. 

 The two forms of thought don't interfere with each other   Science requires proofs; belief requires none. 

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Sherapy
2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I don't think I should mention my weekly pay. But I do know that a comfortable living can be created by micro managing money. Just depends on what defines comfortable. 

I agree, I would not ask or volunteer my pay. It has no bearing on anything and is completely off topic.

 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Mr Walker
7 hours ago, Aquila King said:

I have "left the nest" actually, and failed. Thus I came back, and am still working on my own personal issues with a therapist and psychiatrist now.

I've been perfectly honest and open on here about my past history of sexual abuse by my father from the brain's most developmental ages from 3 to 4, how I've suffered through extreme stress and anxiety in anticipation of a trial during my high school years only for it to be dismissed by a judge in a backroom, etc. I've suffered through the years with varying degrees of PTSD, ADD, Social Phobia, Panic Attacks, Agoraphobia, severe bouts of Depression and Anxiety, numerous thoughts of and an attempt at Sucide, etc. And all of these things have lead to natural struggles through school and with work alike.

I essentially suffer from a certain uncontrollable circumstance called mental illness, which is unfortunately used by most people as a derogatory slur, but it is what it is. If I were physically I'll most people wouldn't think a thing of it, but mental illness is unfortunately so often viewed as a moral failing on your part.

I have several legitimate issues that have made it difficult for me to work and function in the real world, and yes, the internet with platforms like this are what often helps me to heal and grow as a person. I shouldn't feel ashamed of what my father did to me, nor will I allow people like you to shame me for being in the state that I'm currently in.

I know from experience, that there are hard working people who struggle every day to do basic things that most other people just take advantage of. If my problem was "laziness," then I wouldn't have spent such a long time in the past working 10 to 12 hour shifts every day in a factory lifting steel wheels all day, on top of running near daily church programs after work at the time. My problem isn't "laziness," I'm sick. As are millions of other people.

I know not only statistically, but through personal experience, that there are millions of people who work their asses off and struggle to make ends meet, yet still live in poverty their entire lives. That's just how the system currently works. Personal attacks on me mean nothing to demolish that basic fact.

And furthermore, it appears as though you'd say the same thing no matter who it is, so long as they challenge the current system. If you're a millionaire or middle class, then you're a hypocrite. If you're working class or in poverty, you're just envious. What you really are is making excuses for why you won't provide an equal opportunity to those less fortunate than you in order to maintain your feeling of superiority.

I am working on my issues, and have become far stronger to even discuss this here with you in a completely calm unemotional manner. So say what you want. It's only ever ill informed words.

Thank you for this post 

it gives me perspective and understanding about why you feel as you do and  hold the values you do 

Mental illness is a physical disability just like all others and should not be stigmatised or used against a person. It can limit success and progress in life just as a physical illness can, and so far treatments have been less than perfect 

I suspect we have been speaking of "normal"  human beings in this debate (and i dont mean this as disparaging)

Those with physical and mental  "disabilities"  or challenges, require different treatment and extra help from society without taking away from them their abilty to be independent and stand on their own two feet as much as possible 

I would say that In a country like Australia there is little reason for a person to be truly poor  ie hungry homeless and without access to education health care  etc.   unless the y choose a way of living which makes them "poor" Even the poorest of us lives better lives than my parents did during their lives and the state supports the poorest to a considerable extent. I am not qualified to say why some people refuse help or choose to live the lives they do, but some do chose to be independent at any cost.

Everyone has an"equal" base level opportunity in a country like Australia to better themselves,  but some people choose to make more of their opportunities 

(to be clear rich people have EXTRA opportunities but poor people have adequate opportunities)  Free education, free health care, subsidised  housing,  good social welfare payments etc, ensure the basic necessities are met for all.

What you do above that depends on your own; energy, drive, determination, and natural talents; your courage,  preparedness to take risks, and meet new challenges, and how flexible  you are in where you  live and what work you do   

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Mr Walker
15 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I agree, I would not ask or volunteer my pay. It has no bearing on anything and is completely off topic.

 

 

Actually it can be very relevant.

If a poster claims to be able to live well on, for example, the age pension, or  other welfare,   then readers need to know what that pension or benefit is, in order to make an accurate assessment of the poster's claim. You actually ASKED me (and you did some research ) what my wage would have been, after i claimed we had given away around a million dollars over the last 43 years . 

The figures i gave, including tax reductions and rebates for donations,  showed my abilty to give that much away over that time .  

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Mr Walker
5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

There is no reality were it's all rainbows and kitty cats all the time. Life is an ugly chaotic mess and we've only got a finite amount of time to do something. Whatever that something is. Hell, success for some people is just getting out of bed in the morning or finishing a to-do list before days end. 

This does not reflect the reality of my own life which, indeed, is all rainbows, kitty cats, and of course 3 wonderful dogs :)  

It has NEVER been a "chaotic mess" . I simply would not tolerate that, and for the last 40 years my wife would have made me clean any such mess up, before i went to bed.   :) 

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Mr Walker
5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

A diamonds only value is the belief in its worth.

Lots of industrial uses :) 

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Mr Walker
5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

For sure, the problem with Carson though is he cannot plead ignorance. His accomplishments show he has access to greater understanding. 

Ignorance I can understand, deliberate ignorance is another thing altogether though. Ignorance can be overcome  not so much with deliberate ignorance. 

How can it be ignorant to choose a form of belief construct, when belief has no connection to  knowledge. eg you can KNOW everything there is to know about biology and evolution and still chose to BELIEVE that it is ALL a process initiated by a god and that all the evidences for evolution  were put in place by a god.

  The only place where it becomes truly difficult to justify  is if you believe humans are only 6000 years old.

The evidences that this is not true are pretty conclusive . 

You believe what you believe,  because you have reasons to do so. This is certain to be the same with Dr Carsons

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Mr Walker
5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Ben Carson is supposedly going to attempt presidency. It's a worry that such a deliberately ignorant personality can get so far. That's a big flaw in the system IMHO. 

I suspect he would have made a more acceptable president than Trump, to many Americans :) 

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danydandan
1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

IMO it is you who doesn't get it, or the thinking of those people

They believe somethings in faith

Otherwise they operate using science

There is no inconsistency Our minds are actually evolved to use this duality of thinking  (as well as other methods such as intuition and emotional intelligence) 

You would like us to ONLY think in scientific ways.  The problem with this is that science doesn't answer some of the questions our minds ask, or meet some of the needs we have as human beings.

 Iit does not  "enable"  creativity, imagination, compassion, altruism,  etc., either.  

We area able to believe what we choose to believe based on what we need to believe, without this affecting how we deal with work or the material aspects of our existence.

I am not the best one to argue this as i cant believe in things on faith but most people can and do.

There is no reason you cant be a brilliant physicist, yet believe there are fairies in the bottom of your garden. 

 The two forms of thought don't interfere with each other   Science requires proofs; belief requires none. 

You're still arguing against a point I'm not making. Well done. 

Next time why don't you just post your own premise to argue against. Stop wasting your breath on what you have no comprehension of. 

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Sherapy
49 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I suspect he would have made a more acceptable president than Trump, to many Americans :) 

No, he would not have. He wasn’t even on the radar, in that sense.

To me he was like a Sarah Pallin only smart. 

Hell, maybe he will get his own reality show the fundies approach to Science and you can watch it. Lol 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Sherapy
41 minutes ago, danydandan said:

You're still arguing against a point I'm not making. Well done. 

Next time why don't you just post your own premise to argue against. Stop wasting your breath on what you have no comprehension of. 

I almost posted the same thing, he literally argues his own points with himself. 

He should just  start a blog and argue with himself. Lol 

Edited by Sherapy
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danydandan
13 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I almost posted the same thing, he literally argues his own points with himself. 

He should just  start a blog and argue with himself. Lol 

Or purchase a mirror. 

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Sherapy
3 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Or purchase a mirror. 

Yeah, great idea! 

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psyche101
1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

I suspect he would have made a more acceptable president than Trump, to many Americans :) 

Not enough for him it seems as Trump won the right to candidacy and somehow won the election. Still amazed at that, Trumps also endorsed him for his latest attempt from what I read. I think his mindset would be a bad thing for the US. One that incompetent might even consider religion in schools. 

Edited by psyche101
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Sherapy
10 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Not enough for him it seems as Trump won the right to candidacy and somehow won the election. Still amazed at that, Trumps also endorsed him for his latest attempt from what I read. I think his mindset would be a bad thing for the US. One that incompetent might even consider religion in schools. 

He would not become President with the hats in the ring these days, he would be beat out by other candidates. 

Trump trampled him, the person to beat is Trump. 

We have Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren running, they would beat out Carson no problem. 

 

 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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psyche101
3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

He would not become President with the hats in the ring these days, he would be beat out by other candidates. 

Trump trampled him, the person to beat is Trump. 

We have Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren running, they would beat out Carson no problem. 

 

 

I can't say I know the candidates myself, but that still seems a relief.

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danydandan
3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

He would not become President with the hats in the ring these days, he would be beat out by other candidates. 

Trump trampled him, the person to beat is Trump. 

We have Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren running, they would beat out Carson no problem. 

 

 

With all the time Trump is spending with Putin, and the North Korean lad, I'd bet you anything he is looking at ways to .....let's say..... prolong his presidency permanently. 

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Sherapy
Just now, psyche101 said:

I can't say I know the candidates myself, but that still seems a relief.

Yeah, no worries, we had a set back with Trump, but we will get it together. 

 

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