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Jodie.Lynne

I don't believe you

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Aquila King
4 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

AK, you are definitely going to have to cite some sources. That is too far-fetched!

Say no more:

Quote

Graham crackers were originally invented in the early 1800s by a Presbyterian minister by the name of Sylvester Graham, who introduced this snack item as part of his then-radical vegetarian diet which eschewed white flour and spices.

Why? Graham hoped to end what he believed to be the scourge of his time: m********ion.

https://nowiknow.com/the-curious-history-of-graham-crackers-and-corn-flakes/

 

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joc
3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Beliefs can motivate actions. The belief that X is okay in one persons mind, while X is wrong in another's. We do in many ways see the world through our beliefs, beliefs create our model of reality. Which is why Person A thinks god is evil, while Person B doesn't. 

Belief can motivate actions.  Unbelief can motivate actions as well.  But I maintain that a person is going to do what a person is going to do regardless of belief.  

I might hand a twenty to a homeless person because I think God wants me to.  I might also hand a twenty to a homeless person because I think he needs it.  I also might not give anything to the homeless person because I am not why he is there and therefore have no responsibility to him at all.

But at the end of the day...no one really believes what they say they believe or even think they believe.  At the end of the day...who you are is who you are and you will do what you do because you want to...right, wrong, doesn't matter...all that matters in the end is achieving one's own selfish desired will.  One can dress it up with all kind of religious or spiritual skirts and robes....but naked is naked...and our own selfish desires always rule the day.

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XenoFish

I'd figure someone who is celibate would have some major anger issues. I guess they can't "Oh, god" in the private moments.:lol:

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, joc said:

But at the end of the day...no one really believes what they say they believe or even think they believe.

I've been struggle with beliefs quite a lot here lately. Torn between the cold harshness of reality or indulging in the imaginary for the lulz of it. 

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Aquila King
3 minutes ago, joc said:

But at the end of the day...no one really believes what they say they believe or even think they believe.  At the end of the day...who you are is who you are and you will do what you do because you want to...right, wrong, doesn't matter...all that matters in the end is achieving one's own selfish desired will.  One can dress it up with all kind of religious or spiritual skirts and robes....but naked is naked...and our own selfish desires always rule the day.

I'm gonna try to respond to this in an apolitical manner, though it's gonna be difficult...

I think you're essentially taking the nature vs nurture debate, and completely rejecting any notion of nurture being a factor in a person's behaviors.

I don't think things can be simplified in that way. At least not to that degree. I don't think people just "are who they are" deep down no matter what, nor do I think that everyone can be perfectly foldable clay that can be shaped into anything whatsoever.

Essentially, I find nature vs nurture to be a false dichotomy. We're all a mix. Some of what makes us us is all nature, some of it's all nurture. And a **** ton of it's somewhere in the middle.

Humans and our behaviors are complex. I at least try not to simplify it so much.

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joc
3 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

I'm gonna try to respond to this in an apolitical manner, though it's gonna be difficult...

I think you're essentially taking the nature vs nurture debate, and completely rejecting any notion of nurture being a factor in a person's behaviors.

I don't think things can be simplified in that way. At least not to that degree. I don't think people just "are who they are" deep down no matter what, nor do I think that everyone can be perfectly foldable clay that can be shaped into anything whatsoever.

Essentially, I find nature vs nurture to be a false dichotomy. We're all a mix. Some of what makes us us is all nature, some of it's all nurture. And a **** ton of it's somewhere in the middle.

Humans and our behaviors are complex. I at least try not to simplify it so much.

I said at the end of the day...but let's look at it another way....At the beginning of the thought process....

Let's use the homeless person.  What was the first, the very first synaptic snapping of a thought concerning the homeless person just seen?  Was it...that poor person...or was it...fresh out of prison, probably murdered someone...or was it...I was homeless once...or was it...everybody needs help sometime...what was it?  Most assuredly we cannot even truly say...because as soon as that first thought emerges...a wave of thought washes in over it....But that first thought...that is who we are....and ultimately what we will do is what that first thought dictated to us...and we can't even remember what it was.

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Aquila King
18 minutes ago, joc said:

I said at the end of the day...but let's look at it another way....At the beginning of the thought process....

Let's use the homeless person.  What was the first, the very first synaptic snapping of a thought concerning the homeless person just seen?  Was it...that poor person...or was it...fresh out of prison, probably murdered someone...or was it...I was homeless once...or was it...everybody needs help sometime...what was it?  Most assuredly we cannot even truly say...because as soon as that first thought emerges...a wave of thought washes in over it....But that first thought...that is who we are....and ultimately what we will do is what that first thought dictated to us...and we can't even remember what it was.

Not gonna lie, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying exactly...

But in an effort to try and respond to what I think you're getting at...

Homelessness can come as a result of any number of issues, many or even most of which have nothing to do with any in-built inherent nature to that person. Most homeless people suffer from mental illness. Many became homeless as a result of some financial tragedy, like their house burning down, or some sudden massive necessary expense like medical bills, etc. Some become homeless due to addiction, and then as you said, many are former criminals who for that reason alone have extreme difficulty getting a job.

I don't think homelessness for the most part has anything to do with those people's inherent nature. There's a great deal of environmental factors that go into homelessness.

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joc
2 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Not gonna lie, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying exactly...

But in an effort to try and respond to what I think you're getting at...

Homelessness can come as a result of any number of issues, many or even most of which have nothing to do with any in-built inherent nature to that person. Most homeless people suffer from mental illness. Many became homeless as a result of some financial tragedy, like their house burning down, or some sudden massive necessary expense like medical bills, etc. Some become homeless due to addiction, and then as you said, many are former criminals who for that reason alone have extreme difficulty getting a job.

I don't think homelessness for the most part has anything to do with those people's inherent nature. There's a great deal of environmental factors that go into homelessness.

I'm not even talking about the homeless person...he/she is there.  I'm talking about the 'viewer' of the homeless person.  Let's personalize it and say it is you.  What is your first thought when you see the homeless person!  Did it even register?  Consciously?  Maybe maybe not...but that one thought extracted an avalanche of thought from your subconscious memory.  And then you think...everyone deserves kindness...and you whip out a twenty and hand it to the homeless person.  but what was the original thought?  My take is that..whatever that original first thought was...even if you don't remember what it was...that is your essence.  That is who you really are. And most likely you acted on the first thought rather than what the avalanche of thought afterwards prompted you to do because of belief or whatever. 

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Habitat
7 minutes ago, joc said:

I'm not even talking about the homeless person...he/she is there.  I'm talking about the 'viewer' of the homeless person.  Let's personalize it and say it is you.  What is your first thought when you see the homeless person!  Did it even register?  Consciously?  Maybe maybe not...but that one thought extracted an avalanche of thought from your subconscious memory.  And then you think...everyone deserves kindness...and you whip out a twenty and hand it to the homeless person.  but what was the original thought?  My take is that..whatever that original first thought was...even if you don't remember what it was...that is your essence.  That is who you really are. And most likely you acted on the first thought rather than what the avalanche of thought afterwards prompted you to do because of belief or whatever. 

Interesting observation joc !

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Aquila King
1 minute ago, joc said:

I'm not even talking about the homeless person...he/she is there.  I'm talking about the 'viewer' of the homeless person.  Let's personalize it and say it is you.  What is your first thought when you see the homeless person!  Did it even register?  Consciously?  Maybe maybe not...but that one thought extracted an avalanche of thought from your subconscious memory.  And then you think...everyone deserves kindness...and you whip out a twenty and hand it to the homeless person.  but what was the original thought?  My take is that..whatever that original first thought was...even if you don't remember what it was...that is your essence.  That is who you really are. And most likely you acted on the first thought rather than what the avalanche of thought afterwards prompted you to do because of belief or whatever. 

Okay, gotcha. :tu: I think I understand what you're saying now. I will say though, if what you say is true, then our "essence" can in fact change over time.

For instance back in the day when I saw a homeless person, I would think of basic ways of helping them like handing them money, or food, etc. Now days though as I've become more aware of the world around me, every time I see a homeless person I think of the unjust system that allows for homelessness to exist in the first place.

I can agree that our core "essence" as you called it, is a rather subconscious reaction to things in the environment. However I'd say that "essence" is in large part shaped by one's worldview, not based on some in-built nature.

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joc
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

I've been struggle with beliefs quite a lot here lately. Torn between the cold harshness of reality or indulging in the imaginary for the lulz of it. 

Hmmm...I swear I posted to this but it isn't there...oh well...

I think what I had said was...I think your signature says it all...

Religious beliefs, Political beliefs, Societal beliefs....meh....throw them all out the window...

What really matters is how you think about what happens in life.  And if you come down on the side of Nothing Matters...then, what is important really is how you think about nothing matters.

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XenoFish
5 minutes ago, joc said:

What really matters is how you think about what happens in life.  And if you come down on the side of Nothing Matters...then, what is important really is how you think about nothing matters.

Something might matter for a moment, but those moments pass. In the end none of it will matter. It'll only be one event in a massive collection of cause and effect. 

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Sherapy
7 hours ago, eight bits said:

And it's all my fault, according to the esteemed fellow member, Habbmmie, who posted a political cartoon and whose next post calls me out for being too political.

I didn't say anybody was "tetched in the head," either. You lied when you quoted me. Own your lie and retract it.

And @joc please accept my apologies if I offended you. But I would have said the same thing about some Hilary supporters, some  Obama supporters, and so on. There is a niche to political advocacy, right and left, where bigfoot and ancient aliens would feel right at home.

Of Trump, Hilary, and Obama, one of these is not like the others. One of them is currently a contender for a 2020 nomination. So, I went with him for my remarks. Shoot me.

I absolutely see how any political supporters after a certain point have a lot in common with the woo crowd. Hell this includes me, I can be known to be all in and raise that with a whole lot of wishful faithing come election time. 

I thought the comparison was genius, but this is just me. 

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Hammerclaw
8 hours ago, eight bits said:

And it's all my fault, according to the esteemed fellow member, Habbmmie, who posted a political cartoon and whose next post calls me out for being too political.

I didn't say anybody was "tetched in the head," either. You lied when you quoted me. Own your lie and retract it.

And @joc please accept my apologies if I offended you. But I would have said the same thing about some Hilary supporters, some  Obama supporters, and so on. There is a niche to political advocacy, right and left, where bigfoot and ancient aliens would feel right at home.

Of Trump, Hilary, and Obama, one of these is not like the others. One of them is currently a contender for a 2020 nomination. So, I went with him for my remarks. Shoot me.

What's up with you, lately? Why are you getting so butt-hurt all the time? Yeah, I matched your hyperbole with hyperbole, and I own everything bit of it save for copywrited material.  No, you didn't offend me--I voted for none of the above. I thought the thread, sidetracked into the political wilderness, had reached it's nadir when you disparaged half the electorate. All the politically oriented posts--including this one--don't belong here--and I "own" that wholeheartedly.

Edited by Hammerclaw

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Habitat

All this political talk is "deplorable" !

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danydandan
4 hours ago, joc said:

I'm not even talking about the homeless person...he/she is there.  I'm talking about the 'viewer' of the homeless person.  Let's personalize it and say it is you.  What is your first thought when you see the homeless person!  Did it even register?  Consciously?  Maybe maybe not...but that one thought extracted an avalanche of thought from your subconscious memory.  And then you think...everyone deserves kindness...and you whip out a twenty and hand it to the homeless person.  but what was the original thought?  My take is that..whatever that original first thought was...even if you don't remember what it was...that is your essence.  That is who you really are. And most likely you acted on the first thought rather than what the avalanche of thought afterwards prompted you to do because of belief or whatever. 

I'd like to think we are better than our baser instincts. Some people obviously aren't, but most are I think. 

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eight bits
3 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Why are you getting so butt-hurt all the time?

I stand by the truth of what I actually posted, and stand by my calling you on having lied about what I posted. Your most recent post doubles down on the trash talk, and tells further lies about me, and about what I posted.

How many fingers am I holding up? Which one?

 

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Jodie.Lynne
7 hours ago, joc said:

Let's use the homeless person.  What was the first, the very first synaptic snapping of a thought concerning the homeless person just seen?  Was it...that poor person...or was it...fresh out of prison, probably murdered someone...or was it...I was homeless once...or was it...everybody needs help sometime...what was it?

I think I get what you mean.

Our thought processes can become stuck in a pattern. Be can be very judgmental of others, based on our perceptions, and backgrounds.

For a long time, I saw people as 'citizens', 'perps', or 'skells' because of my background. It took me an even longer time to stop viewing people that way, but it took a conscious effort to re-train my thought processes.

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joc
3 hours ago, danydandan said:

I'd like to think we are better than our baser instincts. Some people obviously aren't, but most are I think. 

I think we are our basic instincts.  I just think that most people don't even know what their basic instincts are.

1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

I think I get what you mean.

Our thought processes can become stuck in a pattern. Be can be very judgmental of others, based on our perceptions, and backgrounds.

For a long time, I saw people as 'citizens', 'perps', or 'skells' because of my background. It took me an even longer time to stop viewing people that way, but it took a conscious effort to re-train my thought processes.

That's just it.  We have to consciously recognize and be truthful with ourselves about who and what we actually are.  Then we can make conscious changes to affect that...at the same time...there are things within that we just cannot touch...DNA memory is one...recessed memory from our childhood is another.

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Sherapy
1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

I think I get what you mean.

Our thought processes can become stuck in a pattern. Be can be very judgmental of others, based on our perceptions, and backgrounds.

For a long time, I saw people as 'citizens', 'perps', or 'skells' because of my background. It took me an even longer time to stop viewing people that way, but it took a conscious effort to re-train my thought processes.

Skell’s?

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Habitat
14 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Skell’s?

Probably Noo Joysey talk.

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DieChecker
10 hours ago, joc said:

I'm not even talking about the homeless person...he/she is there.  I'm talking about the 'viewer' of the homeless person.  Let's personalize it and say it is you.  What is your first thought when you see the homeless person!  Did it even register?  Consciously?  Maybe maybe not...but that one thought extracted an avalanche of thought from your subconscious memory.  And then you think...everyone deserves kindness...and you whip out a twenty and hand it to the homeless person.  but what was the original thought?  My take is that..whatever that original first thought was...even if you don't remember what it was...that is your essence.  That is who you really are. And most likely you acted on the first thought rather than what the avalanche of thought afterwards prompted you to do because of belief or whatever. 

Probably true. But it is, IMHO, more important in who you are trying to be. 

There have been studies where people who act more happy eventually are more happy. This kind of self mind washing would seem to be true of most other mental constructs. So some trying to be less racist, will slowly become less racist.

This is true in religion also. Christians that sin and repent (honestly), are, over time, less likely to sin again. The urge may be there forever, but sin isn't about the urge, but the regret of the act.

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XenoFish

There truly is power in words. Thinking about how this thread trainwrecked over just a few post that created a domino effect.

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