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Ellapennella

Who is Hoda Muthana?

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Gromdor
1 minute ago, Big Jim said:

Her crime may be against the United States, but the amendment you cited states that a person must be tried "wherein" the crime was committed.  I'm no legal scholar, but there seems to ample wiggle room between those two terms.

Possibly.  But the wiggle room would be in her favor and not towards imprisonment without a trial.  She could argue that American law can't apply because it occured in Syria and it is not a US state or district.

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Big Jim
1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Possibly.  But the wiggle room would be in her favor and not towards imprisonment without a trial.  She could argue that American law can't apply because it occured in Syria and it is not a US state or district.

I would argue that she in an enemy combatant, by her own choice, and should be treated as such.  She has no more right to a US trial, with all its protections, than the other terrorists she joined and fought with.

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Gromdor
2 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

I would argue that she in an enemy combatant, by her own choice, and should be treated as such.  She has no more right to a US trial, with all its protections, than the other terrorists she joined and fought with.

Unfortunately, when they wrote up the rules they left in this one word: “No alien unlawful enemy combatant subject to trial by military commission under this chapter may invoke the Geneva Conventions as a source of rights.”

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Ellapennella
12 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Possibly.  But the wiggle room would be in her favor and not towards imprisonment without a trial.  She could argue that American law can't apply because it occured in Syria and it is not a US state or district.

Really? She can argue that American Law doesn't apply to what she did including her digital footprints as well. Gee, wonder why she wants to come back to the U.S...

Syria ISIS woman American

eta

 Looks like she'll say anything it takes for her to get back here though I doubt her heart is patriotic. 

Edited by Ellapennella

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Big Jim
2 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Unfortunately, when they wrote up the rules they left in this one word: “No alien unlawful enemy combatant subject to trial by military commission under this chapter may invoke the Geneva Conventions as a source of rights.”

I'm not sure I understand that.  If a trial were to occur in the US, with her considered a US citizen, wouldn't US law supersede the Geneva Convention?  As far as I'm concerned, she's a traitor, pure and simple, and should be treated as such.  

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Gromdor
2 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

Really? She can argue that American Law doesn't apply to what she did including her digital footprints as well. Gee, wonder why she wants to come back to the U.S...

Syria ISIS woman American

eta

 Looks like she'll say anything it takes for her to get back here though I doubt her heart is patriotic. 

American law will apply.  Big Jim was just looking for loop holes to send her to Guantanamo is all.  I was merely pointing out that those potential loopholes would work against his ideas is all.

 

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Gromdor
1 minute ago, Big Jim said:

I'm not sure I understand that.  If a trial were to occur in the US, with her considered a US citizen, wouldn't US law supersede the Geneva Convention?  As far as I'm concerned, she's a traitor, pure and simple, and should be treated as such.  

Many people feel the same about Trump, however what truly matters is the letter of our law.  The path I see for her, if Trump wants to truly have people return to their home countries, is she comes here, gets tried for providing material aid and whatever else they want to throw at her, serves her time, and is released back to Alabama.

I imagine that there are similar discussions going on around the world about their various ISIS fighters and what to do with them.

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Big Jim
1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

American law will apply.  Big Jim was just looking for loop holes to send her to Guantanamo is all.  I was merely pointing out that those potential loopholes would work against his ideas is all.

 

Not Guantanamo, but the gallows.   I wasn't so much looking for loopholes as zeroing in on the exact meaning of words.  If that creates loopholes, then so be it.

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Big Jim
2 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Many people feel the same about Trump, however what truly matters is the letter of our law.  The path I see for her, if Trump wants to truly have people return to their home countries, is she comes here, gets tried for providing material aid and whatever else they want to throw at her, serves her time, and is released back to Alabama.

I imagine that there are similar discussions going on around the world about their various ISIS fighters and what to do with them.

This was interesting until you brought up Trump in a discussion about something else entirely.

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Ellapennella
Just now, Gromdor said:

American law will apply.  Big Jim was just looking for loop holes to send her to Guantanamo is all.  I was merely pointing out that those potential loopholes would work against his ideas is all.

 

Do not let these women who are married to terror come home

These are the women who leave their homes, families, friends and countries to marry the world's worst terrorists.

They have sex with them, they breed with them, they cook for them, they clean for them, they love them and they worship them.

And while they are all doing this, their husbands are engaged in rape, torture, stoning, beheading, and murdering people.

 

These ISIS brides are as ineffable as those horrible women who write love letters to infamous serial killers in prison.

They have no attention or concern for the poor victims of their despicable monsters – they are simply agitated by the murderous brutality.

https://whatsnew2day.com/do-not-let-these-women-who-are-married-to-terror-come-home/

 

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Gromdor
Just now, Big Jim said:

This was interesting until you brought up Trump in a discussion about something else entirely.

I was merely pointing out how personal opinion is worthless compared to the letter of the law.  He is the one publicly stating that countries should be bringing them all back, however.

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CrimsonKing

Play stupid games,win stupid prizes...

Leave her ass in Syria and let their justice system work out what they will for enemy combatants.

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Gromdor
26 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

Play stupid games,win stupid prizes...

Leave her ass in Syria and let their justice system work out what they will for enemy combatants.

Trump was talking about just letting them all go if their home countries didn't take them back: https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/17/politics/donald-trump-isis-fighters-europe-intl/index.html

Edited by Gromdor
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Sir Wearer of Hats

Bring her back, try her, lock her up in solitary, don’t tell her which way is Mecca until the end of her life and bury her with a dog. 

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Golden Duck
5 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

Were they vetted in the first place? "merit based immigration". 

How retrospective are you going to get? 

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CrimsonKing
5 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Trump was talking about just letting them all go if their home countries didn't take them back: https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/17/politics/donald-trump-isis-fighters-europe-intl/index.html

I don't care what Trump thinks or wants...

Wrap her in bacon and feed her to the pigs!

I don't want this piece of trash coming back here and being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by adoring media for interviews for "her story" and book deals...she can rot in Syria,hell after her "denouncing" maybe send her back to her former crew and see how they deal with her.

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Tatetopa
46 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

I don't care what Trump thinks or wants...

Wrap her in bacon and feed her to the pigs!

I don't want this piece of trash coming back here and being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by adoring media for interviews for "her story" and book deals...she can rot in Syria,hell after her "denouncing" maybe send her back to her former crew and see how they deal with her.

I think that is why we have codified laws that apply to all people rather than personal vendettas and revenge killings.  Once that starts, its hard to stop.  Punishment is supposed to be based on crime, not the individual.  Side note, I thought it was illegal for criminals to make money on books about their crimes.

 

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CrimsonKing
16 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I think that is why we have codified laws that apply to all people rather than personal vendettas and revenge killings.  Once that starts, its hard to stop.  Punishment is supposed to be based on crime, not the individual.  Side note, I thought it was illegal for criminals to make money on books about their crimes.

 

Treason has been punishable by death,we've just watered many of our punishments down to the point many don't care if they break the laws because they know it will amount to a slap on the wrist...

This woman called for the bloody death of Americans while camped out with the enemy...would you prefer 3 hots and a cot for 30 days and a stern talking too over a cup of chamomile tea?...

As for the sidenote...well it all depends,i have zero doubt our blessed media will try and make her out to be a victim and some lawmakers will stand in defense of that BS aswell!

Edited by CrimsonKing

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Tatetopa
6 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

Treason has been punishable by death,we've just watered many of our punishments down to the point many don't care if they break the laws because they know it will amount to a slap on the wrist...

This woman called for the bloody death of Americans while camped out with the enemy...would you prefer 3 hots and a cot for 30 days and a stern talking too over a cup of chamomile tea?...

Nope, a fair and impartial trial and an appropriate penalty suits me just fine.  Life imprison or the death penalty.is probably the proscribed penalty if found guilty.  I don't know about the chamomile tea, that may be going too far.

Bottom line for me is this; I really want to believe our Constitution  and our jurisprudence system is  the best the world has to offer.  It is be broad enough to apply to all crimes without going around it..

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, CrimsonKing said:

As for the sidenote...well it all depends,i have zero doubt our blessed media will try and make her out to be a victim and some lawmakers will stand in defense of that BS aswell!

I guess I am not yet that cynical. I think it can be handled fairly.  Surely both sides love to play the victim card and depend on tear-jerkers to make their points rather than facts.  Could this person really be seen as a victim in any light?

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CrimsonKing
12 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I guess I am not yet that cynical. I think it can be handled fairly.  Surely both sides love to play the victim card and depend on tear-jerkers to make their points rather than facts.  Could this person really be seen as a victim in any light?

I've already been hearing PLENTY of "she's beyond sorry" and "she was brainwashed"...

Yep another case of "brainwashing" from thousands of miles away and of ones own time spent clicking and reading lol

 

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CrimsonKing
19 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Nope, a fair and impartial trial and an appropriate penalty suits me just fine.  Life imprison or the death penalty.is probably the proscribed penalty if found guilty.  I don't know about the chamomile tea, that may be going too far.

Bottom line for me is this; I really want to believe our Constitution  and our jurisprudence system is  the best the world has to offer.  It is be broad enough to apply to all crimes without going around it..

I'm not really sure this is our problem,or if we have the all powerful say so in this matter anyway...

She was with IS in Syria,the US constitution doesn't cover her being an enemy combatant to the host country on top of being a traitor to the US...Perhaps Assad or others in control of the region could show her a better time than evil tax paying Americans footing the bill for her the rest of her days in a cell ;)

I've heard she renounced her citizenship,not positive but read it elsewhere...

Meh i just don't have the same faith in our justice system as you do...When some get 25+ for drug offenses and others walk after a year or two on parole for much more heinous crimes...it's become a sick joke.

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Golden Duck
8 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

I don't know about that. I think there's something more to it. As far as I'm concerned she can stay over there . I don't believe her,  I  see her as a danger and more of a danger since she lost her beloved husband. If we let her back she'll do the things she told others to do .

She said these things. She should not be allowed back. She's a threat to our nation. She can't come back here.

 

What about the 14th amendment of your constitution?

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, CrimsonKing said:

Meh i just don't have the same faith in our justice system as you do...When some get 25+ for drug offenses and others walk after a year or two on parole for much more heinous crimes...it's become a sick joke.

Yeah, I know.  This may seem like a lame excuse, I think the justice system is soundly written, but applied by less than stellar humans.  We have no philosopher kings, and maybe too many political hacks.

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and then
14 hours ago, Gromdor said:

She's from Alabama, her dead husband was from Australia and the Lion King is from East Africa (Kenya or Tanzania).

I don't imagine sistah girl wants to show herself back in these parts.  It mightn't be overly healthy for her.

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