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RabidMongoose

Mysticism Help Needed

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RabidMongoose

In my opinion we have everything backwards in life. In Abrahamic mysticism there are four levels of being - receiving, giving to receive, receiving to give, and giving.

According to its mystical traditions receiving is the lowest form of being and is basically only being interested in oneself. The highest form of being is giving and is supposed to be something impossible for a human to achieve because our egos prevent it. But there are techniques for receiving to give which can be successfully applied. And I wonder if there are any for purely giving?

For me I was born into a low socio-economic family who were quite selfish and self-centred. They were your stereotypical socialism supporting council estate family thinking they were entitled to everything in life as their birth right. And when they didnt receive it they blamed the rich and successful for being corrupt and cheating them out of it.

One day I kind of realised they were only interested in receiving and had a lot of hate towards the world when they failed to receive. I outgrew them and came to realise receiving to give is far superior. Now I am highly successful in life. I realised that socialism is the lowest form of being and to elevate oneself then we have to become capitalists.

In capitalism we receive money to give products and services back (receiving to give). I gained some unusual insights that the whole of society and the universe is setup to punish receivers, but those who receive to give climb far higher. Its like Abrahamic mysticism runs through the very essence of everything from the economy to even interpersonal relationships. 

What I dont understand is giving. I dont understand how simply giving could elevate me even higher? The only forms of giving I can think off is going out of my way to do something for something else with nothing in return. And giving products and services, and money, for free. But with all of them I dont understand how it leads to be climbing even higher. Does anybody else have giving insights that lead to climbing even higher?

Is it about becoming a politician and giving people the policies that they want? (Instead of myself).

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ouija ouija

You seem obsessed with climbing!

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bison

To give without the expectation of receiving anything in return is to renounce the supposed separation of the giver and the receiver. It is to regard others as fellow-beings, as worthy of receiving as we are, ourselves.

If all gave freely, there would be no inequity in the world. All needs would be met. We would transcend the 'law of the jungle', and the motive of personal gain, and achieve something higher. 

Humanity is apt to have to work quite some time yet, before it accomplishes that goal. Every action of giving without expectation is a step in that direction. 

Edited by bison
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RabidMongoose
15 minutes ago, bison said:

To give without the expectation of receiving anything in return is to renounce the supposed separation of the giver and the receiver. It is to regard others as fellow-beings, as worthy of receiving as we are, ourselves. If all gave freely, there would be no inequity in the world. All needs would be met. We would transcend the 'law of the jungle', and the motive of personal gain, and achieve something higher.  

From a practical viewpoint I can see that people give to their children without condition (if they are normal loving parents). So I kind of guess thats why reproduction exists from a religious perspective. Some people also give freely to friends. So are those the only forms of giving open to ordinary people?

I supposed some people might join the army to give to their country, or some other roles where they can serve other people. To me the most giving possible which I can think of is to become a politician. It allows one to give to large numbers of people.

How on earth could someone give to the entire universe? Is that even possible?

Edited by RabidMongoose

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bison

If a prospective politician had the aim of being a true public servant, and did not advance himself, or herself,  by attacking others seeking the same office, this could be a form a giving. If there is a spiritual unity in the universe, as I believe, then any giving action is, in effect, giving to the whole universe. If the action doesn't seem to be appreciated locally, it presumably is on a higher level, even when this is not apparent. 

 

 

 

 

 

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travelnjones

Well being unbound by the distraction of that object and thus the material concerns.  Though that said those people that are a thing often have the trappings of that thing ie astronomers have telescopes.  Don't get rid of the tools of your path, whatever it may be is my thought.

Rather than giving away all your stuff maybe try some sort of physical / mental exhaustion.  Mysticism often has traditions of this, The sun ritual, sweat lodges.  I have done some branding which didn't have much of an effect other than clarity.  Wandering around all over a hillside until my fat ass was exhausted worked better. 

But if you are getting rid of Atari cartridges I'll take em.

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Goddess of the Mist

There are other things that can be given (other than material things).  For instance, you can give someone a compliment - or a smile.  Something so small can have the effect to turn someone's whole day around.  In turn, they can be a better person to those around them.  When you do something like that, it all gets passed down the line.  I don't think it has to be complicated or extravagant.  

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third_eye

Giving does not work without the receiving, a receiving cannot happen without a giving. The divine gift that when given, when is received, is eternal, there is nothing from or to, it is just the gift of constant giving and receiving.

What is to be, what is have been, what is being, is as 'one' , breathing in and out as existence, becomes the living breath, not merely a life still breathing

~

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Coil

O son of Kunti, all that you do, all that you eat, all that you offer and give away, as well as all austerities that you may perform, should be done as an offering unto Me.
In this way you will be freed from all reactions to good and evil deeds, and by this principle of renunciation you will be liberated and come to Me.
Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, offer obeisances and worship Me. Being completely absorbed in Me, surely you will come to Me.'

Therefore, always perform your duty efficiently and without attachment to the results,because by doing work without attachment one attains the Supreme.

O Arjuna, there is nothing in the three worlds that should be done by Me, nor there is anything unobtained
that I should obtain, yet I engage in action.
All works are being done by the Gunas of nature, but due to delusion of ego people assume themselves to be the doer.
Dedicating all works to Me in a spiritual frame of mind, free from desire, attachment, and mental grief, do your duty.

Bhagavat Gita, Chapter 9 and chapter 3

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RabidMongoose
10 hours ago, Coil said:

O son of Kunti, all that you do, all that you eat, all that you offer and give away, as well as all austerities that you may perform, should be done as an offering unto Me.
In this way you will be freed from all reactions to good and evil deeds, and by this principle of renunciation you will be liberated and come to Me.
Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, offer obeisances and worship Me. Being completely absorbed in Me, surely you will come to Me.'

Therefore, always perform your duty efficiently and without attachment to the results,because by doing work without attachment one attains the Supreme.

O Arjuna, there is nothing in the three worlds that should be done by Me, nor there is anything unobtained
that I should obtain, yet I engage in action.
All works are being done by the Gunas of nature, but due to delusion of ego people assume themselves to be the doer.
Dedicating all works to Me in a spiritual frame of mind, free from desire, attachment, and mental grief, do your duty.

Bhagavat Gita, Chapter 9 and chapter 3

Thats not giving though, its receiving to give.

So what about the fourth state? The state of pure giving? There is no screen to use to do that which I can find anywhere so whats the technique?

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ouija ouija
13 hours ago, Coil said:

O son of Kunti, all that you do, all that you eat, all that you offer and give away, as well as all austerities that you may perform, should be done as an offering unto Me.
In this way you will be freed from all reactions to good and evil deeds, and by this principle of renunciation you will be liberated and come to Me.
Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, offer obeisances and worship Me. Being completely absorbed in Me, surely you will come to Me.'

Therefore, always perform your duty efficiently and without attachment to the results,because by doing work without attachment one attains the Supreme.

O Arjuna, there is nothing in the three worlds that should be done by Me, nor there is anything unobtained
that I should obtain, yet I engage in action.
All works are being done by the Gunas of nature, but due to delusion of ego people assume themselves to be the doer.
Dedicating all works to Me in a spiritual frame of mind, free from desire, attachment, and mental grief, do your duty.

Bhagavat Gita, Chapter 9 and chapter 3

 

2 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Thats not giving though, its receiving to give.

So what about the fourth state? The state of pure giving? There is no screen to use to do that which I can find anywhere so whats the technique?

I wonder why you interpret that extract from the Bhagavad Gita as ' receiving to give'? And surely the state of pure giving is the easiest to understand(if not always the easiest to perform). IMHO, if you need to ask for a technique you have misunderstood the action.

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Coil
14 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Thats not giving though, its receiving to give.

So what about the fourth state? The state of pure giving? There is no screen to use to do that which I can find anywhere so whats the technique?

I understand that true action is disinterested action as an offering to God of the results of labor and our thoughts, which becomes a real giving.

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jmccr8
On 2/20/2019 at 4:20 PM, RabidMongoose said:

supposed some people might join the army to give to their country, or some other roles where they can serve other people. To me the most giving possible which I can think of is to become a politician. It allows one to give to large numbers of people

Hi Rabidmongoose

Are politicians your messengers from god if so then there is not much point in a discussion here as politicians are mortal men. I have no gods men or otherwise

jmccr8

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jmccr8
On 2/20/2019 at 4:20 PM, RabidMongoose said:

I supposed some people might join the army to give to their country, or some other roles where they can serve other people. To me the most giving possible which I can think of is to become a politician. It allows one to give to large numbers of peopl

Supposing is different than reality. Let's suppose you gave a sheet about your fellow man for a minute but wouldn't give your life for them, should I trust you/

jmccr8

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