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DNA breakthrough hints at exotic alien life

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sci-nerd

I see one problem in that: Nature always chooses the path of least resistance.

If DNA is easier to make, it will be first choice. And from what we can see here on earth, a first and only choice.

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aniknonymous
2 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

I see one problem in that: Nature always chooses the path of least resistance.

If DNA is easier to make, it will be first choice. And from what we can see here on earth, a first and only choice.

i agree but that's on earth. we don't really know what other elements are out there and our knowledge is only limited by our understanding of what's here. we can hardly imagine an alternative formation of life because we simply don't know/understand of how such a thing could be. in far away places there may be other conditions or even laws of physics and we will probably never understand/find everything that's out there. it does make me wonder tho!

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sci-nerd
33 minutes ago, aniknonymous said:

i agree but that's on earth.

We have the same laws of physics and elements here, as everywhere else. When atoms get too big a nucleus they become unstable here, and everywhere. So the basics do not change. There are no new elements out there.

A different planet can have different gravity and pressure, but that does not change the weak nuclear force. The one that makes molecules like those in DNA.

What can change is artificial molecules, like the article is about. I doubt that will happen in nature. No matter which galaxy you live in.

Edited by sci-nerd
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Trelane

As long as we don't have any flute playing androids involved I think we'll be ok.

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DirtyDocMartens

Dang, that Steven Benner must be one smart son-of-a-gun. Well done!

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stereologist
On 2/23/2019 at 6:22 PM, sci-nerd said:

We have the same laws of physics and elements here, as everywhere else. When atoms get too big a nucleus they become unstable here, and everywhere. So the basics do not change. There are no new elements out there.

A different planet can have different gravity and pressure, but that does not change the weak nuclear force. The one that makes molecules like those in DNA.

What can change is artificial molecules, like the article is about. I doubt that will happen in nature. No matter which galaxy you live in.

Small clarification, it's EM that makes molecules not the weak force.

There is an issue to consider and that is the robustness of a molecule. Some virus use RNA but most life uses DNA probably because DNA is less fragile.

Maybe there is a less fragile molecule that could replace DNA just as DNA replaced RNA. Maybe there are other molecules that could exist in situations that DNA cannot exist in.

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psyche101
7 hours ago, stereologist said:

Small clarification, it's EM that makes molecules not the weak force.

There is an issue to consider and that is the robustness of a molecule. Some virus use RNA but most life uses DNA probably because DNA is less fragile.

Maybe there is a less fragile molecule that could replace DNA just as DNA replaced RNA. Maybe there are other molecules that could exist in situations that DNA cannot exist in.

I'm not sure if I'm reading it right, but they have made more complex alternatives to DNA have they not? 

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sci-nerd
11 hours ago, stereologist said:

Small clarification, it's EM that makes molecules not the weak force.

We are actually both wrong. Molecules are held together by covalent bonds.

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stereologist
4 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

We are actually both wrong. Molecules are held together by covalent bonds.

Covalent bonds are due to the EM force, but you are certainly correct in being more specific about the types of bonds in molecules.

Thanks for that.

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spud the mackem

Could there be an alternative to carbon based life forms.

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Captain Risky
3 hours ago, spud the mackem said:

Could there be an alternative to carbon based life forms.

Silicon based life.

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sci-nerd
6 hours ago, stereologist said:

Covalent bonds are due to the EM force

No sir, they are not. But instead of me keep saying no, and you keep saying yes, show me the evidence :tu:

The wiki page about covalent bonds I linked to above, does not mention EM at all. Not even once!

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psyche101
4 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Silicon based life.

More complex, inefficient, less bonding friendly and therefore unlikely. 

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AstralHorus

Not to get too philosophical, what is life? What is consciousness? Can it only be experienced through a DNA construct? 

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Buzz_Light_Year
14 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Silicon based life.

horta.jpg

The Devil in The Dark.

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Captain Risky
30 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

horta.jpg

The Devil in The Dark.

we come in peace...

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSUu9Y-f-eYRDEhb8Y3Ssx

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bison

Silicon is known for its heat resistance. Silicon-based life might exist in environments too hot for carbon-based life. It could take the form of silicone; polymer chains of alternating silicon and oxygen molecules. These can form liquids or solids. Some of the latter are quite flexible, and elastic, much like our living tissues. The former might serve the same purpose as water- based fluids do in our own biology.  

Edited by bison

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Rlyeh
21 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

No sir, they are not. But instead of me keep saying no, and you keep saying yes, show me the evidence :tu:

The wiki page about covalent bonds I linked to above, does not mention EM at all. Not even once!

Did you check what a chemical bond is?  That mentions the EM force.

 

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stereologist
22 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

No sir, they are not. But instead of me keep saying no, and you keep saying yes, show me the evidence :tu:

The wiki page about covalent bonds I linked to above, does not mention EM at all. Not even once!

I'll bet it doesn't. Hopefully this helps out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetism

Quote

The electromagnetic force governs all chemical processes, which arise from interactions between the electrons of neighboring atoms.

Basically, the world we encounter is EM and gravity. If it isn't gravity it is almost certainly due to the EM force.

I think that's pretty cool.

I do appreciate you reminding me of the different types of bonds, especially the covalent bond. :tu:

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sci-nerd
45 minutes ago, stereologist said:

I'll bet it doesn't. Hopefully this helps out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetism

Basically, the world we encounter is EM and gravity. If it isn't gravity it is almost certainly due to the EM force.

I think that's pretty cool.

I do appreciate you reminding me of the different types of bonds, especially the covalent bond. :tu:

I think I finally found a mutually satisfying answer: Electrostatics

More info:

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-electromagnetic-force-and-electrostatic-force
https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/710/fundamental-forces-behind-covalent-bonding

It is in the EM spectrum, but has its own exclusive properties. Like light.

Edited by sci-nerd

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sci-nerd
On 26.2.2019 at 9:47 PM, sci-nerd said:

It is in the EM spectrum

@stereologist I was mistaken. It is not in the EM spectrum after all. Wikipedia might suggest it, but it is a far more delicate matter.

The exact force we are talking about is called the Coulomb force: https://www.britannica.com/science/Coulomb-force

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stereologist
13 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

@stereologist I was mistaken. It is not in the EM spectrum after all. Wikipedia might suggest it, but it is a far more delicate matter.

The exact force we are talking about is called the Coulomb force: https://www.britannica.com/science/Coulomb-force

That is all part of the EM spectrum. The electromagnetic force covers almost everything we experience outside of gravity.

From  your link

Quote

Because of their positive charge, protons within nuclei repel each other, but nuclei hold together because of another basic physical force, the strong interaction, or nuclear force, which is stronger than the electric force. Massive, but electrically neutral, astronomical bodies such as planets and stars are bound together in solar systems and galaxies by still another basic physical force, gravitation, which though much weaker than the electric force, is always attractive and is the dominant force at great distances. At distances between these extremes, including the distances of everyday life, the only significant physical force is the electric force in its many varieties along with the related magnetic force.

Bolding mine.

You are looking into the specific issues that result from the EM force. That's cool.

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sci-nerd
29 minutes ago, stereologist said:

That is all part of the EM spectrum.

The EM spectrum is radiation only: Light, radio waves, microwaves a.s.o. I will keep researching whether or not electrostatics is considered a form of electromagnetism.
I've chatted briefly with a scientist on a physics forum, and he rejected it, but I'll have to get an elaboration, before I can explain why, to you.

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stereologist
2 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

The EM spectrum is radiation only: Light, radio waves, microwaves a.s.o. I will keep researching whether or not electrostatics is considered a form of electromagnetism.
I've chatted briefly with a scientist on a physics forum, and he rejected it, but I'll have to get an elaboration, before I can explain why, to you.

I meant the EM force. I thought you meant EM spectrum as in the range of forms that the EM force takes.

The EM force is mediated by photons. When you type on a keyboard you feel the keys and do not sink into them because the electrons of your fingers interact with the electrons of the keys. They interact with each other using photons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_carrier

Quote

In particle physics, force carriers or messenger particles or intermediate particles are particles that give rise to forces between other particles. These particles are bundles of energy (quanta) of a particular kind of field. There is one kind of field for every type of elementary particle. For instance, there is an electric field whose quanta are electrons, and an electromagnetic field whose quanta are photons.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Particles/expar.html

Quote

Photon is the name given to a quantum of light or other electromagnetic radiation. The photon energy is given in the Planck relationship. The photon is the exchange particle responsible for the electromagnetic force.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetism

Quote

Fundamental electromagnetic interactions occur between any two particles that have an electric charge. These interactions involve the exchange or production of photons. Thus, photons are the carrier particles of electromagnetic interactions.

The  light, radio waves, etc. are the quanta of the EM force as mentioned in these articles.

You can find more information by searching on something like "photons mediate the electromagnetic force"

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