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Ellapennella

Communism , Totalitarianism & Atheism

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Ellapennella

 Communism & Totalitarianism are one in the same. 

When Atheist argue that they do not want religion , what do they think they will get ? 

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spartan max2

Communism is not the same as totalitarianism.

But communism always leads to totalitarianism. 

Edited by spartan max2
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Carlos Allende

I'm not sure whether it's cool or uncool that users of //unexplained mysteries.com hash and rehash these matters over and over again. What I'd say is that, while not subjective, each one of these philosophies so intrinsically attaches themselves to a person's fundamental thinking (or lack of, no offence capitalists) that we may _as well_ call them subjective. As someone who's inclined toward communism, however, it BEHOVES me to point out that communism as described by Marx (but practitioned by basically no one) is a logical, utilitarian system for organising society for the greatest good. Yeah?  

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Will Due
1 hour ago, Ellapennella said:

 Communism & Totalitarianism are one in the same. 

 

Few things are one and the same Ella. But some things do go hand in hand sometimes.

 

Quote

When Atheist argue that they do not want religion , what do they think they will get ? 

 

Secular totalitarianism.

Pretty close to the same thing as the religious totalitarianism of time immemorial. But worse in my opinion.

Without secularism doing the hard work of freeing everyone from the religious oppression and persecution of old, we wouldn't have the religious freedom we all enjoy today. Like being free to discuss these issues in a place like this for example without ending up being burned at the stake. 

But now this very same secular mindset is vehemently attempting to sell us all into a new type of bondage. Slavery to something at least as bad if not worse (because of who is doing it); secular totalitarianism

And we're already seeing how some secularists are now using all of their tools to oppress, persecute and "burn at the stake" anyone who opposes them in their quest.

 

 

Edited by Will Due

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Piney
3 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

I'd also like to see a second season of 'Firefly'

I'd like to see it run about 5.:tu:

 

4 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

and find a fat-free ice cream that actually tastes good.

and doesn't screw up your digestive bacteria and enzymes. :yes:

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Imaginarynumber1
5 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Religion, in and of itself, doesn't bother me over much, although the more rabid believers who try to impose their particular god views on others makes me nervous.

What I would like to see is the human race outgrowing the need for deific validation for their existence, and to learn to accept that we ourselves are responsible for our lives.

I'd like to see people accepting people AS people, and not as some arbitrarily labeled constructs like 'theist', 'atheist', 'republican', 'democrat', 'straight' or 'gay', etc., etc.

I'd like to see people mind their own business about what other people do in their bedrooms, and with whom, as long as they are consenting adults. 

I'd also like to see a second season of 'Firefly' and find a fat-free ice cream that actually tastes good.

And bees. Dont forget bees.

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Jodie.Lynne
4 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

And bees. Dont forget bees.

 

I didn't forget the bees. :)

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Carlos Allende
19 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

That common flaw is, of course, the human element.

Well, yes. This goes without saying, mate. But surely, if you can describe something clearly enough, and practically enough, it _must_ be a noble effort? Human conceit, human laziness, human prejudice ...these are already accounted for to a certain degree through our laws and societal norms. Why not go the extra distance and apply a higher standard to our economic supply chain?

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Jodie.Lynne
12 minutes ago, Carlos Allende said:

Why not go the extra distance and apply a higher standard to our economic supply chain?

Ever hear the phrase "Everyone is equal. Some are just more equal than others"?

How do you go about engineering a system that not only accounts for the human penchant for personal greed and advancement, but makes it impossible for one (or a few) to circumvent the system?

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Rlyeh
1 hour ago, Ellapennella said:

 Communism & Totalitarianism are one in the same. 

When Atheist argue that they do not want religion , what do they think they will get ? 

What do you think is the point of this question?

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spartan max2
56 minutes ago, Carlos Allende said:

I'm not sure whether it's cool or uncool that users of //unexplained mysteries.com hash and rehash these matters over and over again. What I'd say is that, while not subjective, each one of these philosophies so intrinsically attaches themselves to a person's fundamental thinking (or lack of, no offence capitalists) that we may _as well_ call them subjective. As someone who's inclined toward communism, however, it BEHOVES me to point out that communism as described by Marx (but practitioned by basically no one) is a logical, utilitarian system for organising society for the greatest good. Yeah?  

Theory dosen't matter to me much when it's been a disaster everywhere it was tried.

Economic theory is basically just thought experiments lol

China managed to stay afloat by allowing Hong Kong to have a lot of autonomy. 

There are not really any true believers in Communism anymore, the closest people get is the "democractic socialism".

 

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Carlos Allende
19 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

There are not really any true believers in Communism anymore, the closest people get is the "democractic socialism".

Yes. ___Bleak___, isn't it? 

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papageorge1
2 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

 Communism & Totalitarianism are one in the same. 

When Atheist argue that they do not want religion , what do they think they will get ? 

They also do not want religious institutions to be an independent force that people can rally around and challenge the one party's authority. I think the Catholic Church in Poland was actually a strong force in starting the descent of the Soviet empire.

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Carlos Allende
33 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

How do you go about engineering a system that not only accounts for the human penchant for personal greed and advancement, but makes it impossible for one (or a few) to circumvent the system?

If I remember rightly, JL, you participated in the debate over my own solution for making it impossible for 'one (or a few) to circumvent the system'. Basically, it uses the following truism: no one wants to appear greedy. We therefore agree a universal standard of what constitutes hard work and then publicly monitor ourselves. No one yet is so schizophrenic that they can dismiss someone who has a blatantly terrible job out-of-hand, and so that's where we start.

Remember this bad boy? I thought we'd seen the back of it:

 

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and then
1 hour ago, Carlos Allende said:

it BEHOVES me to point out that communism as described by Marx (but practitioned by basically no one) is a logical, utilitarian system for organising society for the greatest good. Yeah?  

He just left out the whole "human nature" component that is inescapable.

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Carlos Allende
1 minute ago, and then said:

He just left out the whole "human nature" component that is inescapable.

Far from being inescapable, I think the whole "human nature" component is as easy to resolve as Bill and Ted beating Death at Battleships.

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EnderOTD

 

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EnderOTD

Any system that doesn’t acknowledge and accept that humans are individuals, greedy, and tribal will inevitably need to turn to violence or the threat of violence to maintain control.

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and then
5 minutes ago, Carlos Allende said:

Far from being inescapable, I think the whole "human nature" component is as easy to resolve as Bill and Ted beating Death at Battleships.

I'd like to agree with you Carlos but if it's easy, it sure has been a LONG time coming, innit?

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danydandan

What hell does any of this have to do with spirituality vs scepticism?

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and then
Just now, EnderOTD said:

Any system that doesn’t acknowledge and accept that humans are individuals, greedy, and tribal will inevitably need to turn to violence or the threat of violence to maintain control.

And the men who argued for days and weeks while writing our founding documents understood this.  That's why that Constitution kept us civil and sane for as long as it did.  It wasn't until we decided that education and morality were optional that we began the inevitable slide into dissolution.

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