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ellapenella

Communism , Totalitarianism & Atheism

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Stubbly_Dooright
39 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:
1 hour ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

And that’s another thing, how can one be told flat out, don’t do this or you’ll be punished, and expect them to think that is how one learns. Understanding why, is the bigger key. 

Hi Stubbly

One day I told my mom that if you kicked your dog every time you walked passed it and one day you walked by it when it was laying down and kicked it and it didn't even look up that you had kicked it to the point that it didn't matter anymore. She missed the point,:huh:

jmccr8

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
7 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

My position on modern slavery is that it is immoral.  That’s it.  

Congratulations you are more moral than God. :tu:

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Rlyeh
9 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Well, hello!  If it wasn’t respectable back then, then no one would practice it.  If it wasn't respectable then all the great empires in those days wouldn’t have practiced it.  In fact many would have been motivated to invade neighbors to put an end to it.  I don’t recall seeing that done.  Maybe invade neighbors and enslave them.  Earth calling Rlyeh, Earth calling Rlyeh, come back down and live in the real world for a while.

So according to you everything from prostitution to public executions are respectable practices then.  Stop before you say something else stupid.

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Rlyeh
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

It’s not that GOD isn’t concerned.  He is, that is why he sent his son.  The running of this world is now in our hands.  We no longer have to worry about the wrath of GOD wiping out sinful populations.  A new paradigm was put in place by the Resurrection.

His son is unconcerned too.

We've never had to worry about the wrath of God wiping out "sinful" populations.  I mean he let your murdering raping prophets live.

Edited by Rlyeh
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jmccr8
8 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

His son is unconcerned too.

We've never had to worry about the wrath of God wiping out "sinful" populations.  I mean he let your murdering raping prophets live.

 Hi Rlyeh

If god took care of all the sinners who would be left? Obviously, god forgives itself.

jmccr8

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jmccr8
5 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

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Hi Stubbly

It was a years of observation/abuse that made it clear to me.:)

jmccr8

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Rlyeh
3 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

 Hi Rlyeh

If god took care of all the sinners who would be left? Obviously, god forgives itself.

jmccr8

The divine hypocrite.  In order for god to forgive someone is getting fked.

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Stubbly_Dooright
3 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Stubbly

It was a years of observation/abuse that made it clear to me.:)

jmccr8

I think of my secular experience growing up, and see how this somehow can play a part in how we cannot just over night, believe something just like that. Though, in your example, you saw how your life around you is not proving that things written in the Bible makes sense. And that was a good many years of your life, that brought out the conclusion. (In my feeling through my observations) 

My example, have not constant and consistent knowledge at all in my growing up years, (and remembering how there weren’t really anything that would make me consider that this was something that I would then later recognize in other people’s religions.) so when presented (most through uninvited approaches) with something that is said to be true, is not for me. Especially, there is confusion, when only knowing the creation of the universe, Earth, our beginnings as a scientific through secular education, and then being told, we came from a couple who instantly was made by someone else even higher. 

(And I’m really shocked to think I am supposed to believe that all of us, came from just two people) I mean, the limited gene pool that is given to us in this ‘picture’ and what we have of it today. How can some expect me to believe in something, that my life since up to this point, shows no evidence that it can, could, will happen. 

There seems to be an almost shared understanding, that yes, a person cannot be forced to believe or not believe in something. Especially, if their instinctly beliefs or what they don’t belief is the opposite. So, why then assume one can expect that can happen, when you tell them yet you can’t compensate for why they have years of not seeing it? 

 

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Rlyeh
4 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Congratulations you are more moral than God. :tu:

Doubtful.  RavenHawk sees modern slavery immoral, I wouldn't be surprised if they fully support Biblical slavery being practiced today.  After all our morality hasn't changed.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Doubtful.  RavenHawk sees modern slavery immoral, I wouldn't be surprised if they fully support Biblical slavery being practiced today.  After all our morality hasn't changed.

I have never been a religious person myself, but I imagine it can be very difficult to defend the morals of bronze age Middle Eastern sheppards, when they so clearly conflict with modern moral standards. 

In order to be a good christian conservative you need to practice a lot of doublethink on a broad range of subjects. 

Edited by Noteverythingisaconspiracy
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Aquila King
29 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

I have never been a religious person myself, but I imagine it can be very difficult to defend the morals of bronze age Middle Eastern sheppards, when they so clearly conflict with modern moral standards. 

In order to be a good christian conservative you need to practice a lot of doublethink on a broad range of subjects. 

I think a lot of it actually comes down to the majority of Christians simply being completely unaware of what's actually in their own sacred religious texts.

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Rlyeh
31 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

I have never been a religious person myself, but I imagine it can be very difficult to defend the morals of bronze age Middle Eastern sheppards, when they so clearly conflict with modern moral standards. 

In order to be a good christian conservative you need to practice a lot of doublethink on a broad range of subjects. 

Apologetics is the art of mental gymnastics.

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RavenHawk
48 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

I have never been a religious person myself, but I imagine it can be very difficult to defend the morals of bronze age Middle Eastern sheppards, when they so clearly conflict with modern moral standards. 

Not at all, because I understand.  You are trying to make a false equivalency.  Comparing apples to oranges.  You’re going someplace that you shouldn’t.  Not because it is forbidden but that it is meaningless.  You think that because times have changed that morals have too??  They have not (not GODs).  I must admit that I do not have the words to open your eyes to that.  The only words I have is that you are Fncking wrong!  I apologize as that is not meant as an attack but the onus is not only on me, you need to intellectually come half way, which you have no inclination in doing.  That just seems so intellectually dishonest.  In your incredulity, I am just dumbfounded on your resistance to learn??  Are you afraid that you’ll change your mind?  Very quickly, back in its day, there was no issue of slavery being immoral or even moral (and that statement is not supporting slavery).  But now in today’s world, we collectively see slavery as immoral which is an indication that we are learning what GOD has been teaching.  This is really a test that we’ve passed in learning respect (or beginning to).  Can you imagine how it would have caused society to collapse if GOD had chosen to tell Man that slavery was immoral?  We’d still be in the Stone-Age today.  It would be almost as bad as AOC’s Green New Deal.

 

In order to be a good christian conservative you need to practice a lot of doublethink on a broad range of subjects. 

Actually from the point of view of your so-call Christian Conservative, it is the atheist that must practice a lot of doublethink in order to remain ignorant.

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danydandan

Yeah your correct morals values haven't changed. Slavery is morally incorrect now, was thousands of years ago and always will be. 

So what are people arguing about? 

Are people trying to say the Author's of the Gospels weren't morally perfect? 

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Rlyeh
Posted (edited)

RavenHawk, you're just making **** up now.  God nor Jesus taught slavery was immoral.

Edited by Rlyeh
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RavenHawk
1 minute ago, Rlyeh said:

God nor Jesus ever taught slavery was immoral.

The point isn’t whether GOD taught us that slavery was immoral but he did teach us the difference between right and wrong, and now today, we are applying that to slavery.  We didn’t need to be told it was immoral.  We have come a long way and are beginning to learn the lesson.

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Rlyeh
Just now, RavenHawk said:

The point isn’t whether GOD taught us that slavery was immoral but he did teach us the difference between right and wrong, and now today, we are applying that to slavery.  We didn’t need to be told it was immoral.  We have come a long way and are beginning to learn the lesson.

Actually humanity was familiar with of the concepts of right and wrong before your God was ever invented.  But keeping with the narrative, Yahweh was a-ok with slavery, perfectly fine with killing heretics.  Most of us now see this as wrong, Yahweh gets no credit for that.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

Not at all, because I understand.  You are trying to make a false equivalency.  Comparing apples to oranges.  You’re going someplace that you shouldn’t.  Not because it is forbidden but that it is meaningless.  You think that because times have changed that morals have too??

Yes ! 

You have even said yourself that slavey today is unacceptable, so at some level you know that morals have changed. Yet then we have this:

Quote

  They have not (not GODs).  

So god still believe that is is okay to have slaves. He must do because that is clearly what is written in the bible.

You have thus managed to both say that god, who advocated slavery, is right and that you think slavery is wrong. 

Quote

I must admit that I do not have the words to open your eyes to that.  The only words I have is that you are Fncking wrong!

What have I said that is wrong ? 

Quote

I apologize as that is not meant as an attack but the onus is not only on me, you need to intellectually come half way, which you have no inclination in doing.

Give a good reason for why owning other people is ever moral and we can begin an honest conversation. 

Quote

That just seems so intellectually dishonest. 

I'm simply going by whats in the book you think is a good moral guide. Not really my fault that you have such a hard to to tell me why its a good moral guide.

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In your incredulity, I am just dumbfounded on your resistance to learn??  Are you afraid that you’ll change your mind? 

I'm never afraid to learn or change my mind, its just that I require a good reason to do so. 

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Very quickly, back in its day, there was no issue of slavery being immoral or even moral (and that statement is not supporting slavery). But now in today’s world, we collectively see slavery as immoral which is an indication that we are learning what GOD has been teaching.

But god never teaches that slavery is immoral. He gives guideline to how you can treat your slaves and who you can enslave, but he never said "Don't have slaves"

How can you say that gods morals never changes, yet you also say that what is considered moral have changed. You really don't see the inherent contradiction in your own beliefs ?

Either gods morals are infallible and in that case slavery is moral, or god changed his mind and thus isn't infallible. You can't have it both ways.

Quote

This is really a test that we’ve passed in learning respect (or beginning to).  Can you imagine how it would have caused society to collapse if GOD had chosen to tell Man that slavery was immoral?

You mean the way society collapsed after slavery was abolished in the Western world and we had the longest period of economic growth, human rights and scientific development in history ? 

Quote

We’d still be in the Stone-Age today.

Slavery doesn't lead scientific development, on the contrary slavery takes away much of the incentive for a society to innovate. 

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  It would be almost as bad as AOC’s Green New Deal.

 

That is completely irrelevant to the discussion and as I'm not from the US it's a non issue for me anyway.

Quote

Actually from the point of view of your so-call Christian Conservative, it is the atheist that must practice a lot of doublethink in order to remain ignorant.

So it requires doublethink to not believe in something that refuses to show evidence that it exists and can't get its morals straight ? I'm not sure I'm the one practicing doublething here Mr. RavenHawk.

Edited by Noteverythingisaconspiracy
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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

The point isn’t whether GOD taught us that slavery was immoral but he did teach us the difference between right and wrong, and now today, we are applying that to slavery.  We didn’t need to be told it was immoral.  We have come a long way and are beginning to learn the lesson.

God could have prevented slavery for thousands of years by simply saying it was wrong...... telling people not to eat shellfish was clearly deemed more important to him. :wacko: This is why I don't think the bible is a moral guide.

Edited by Noteverythingisaconspiracy
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GoldenWolf
Posted (edited)

I don't think the bible was ever meant for mass publication, I think it was just meant for the Clergy (his appointed enforcers).

Edited by GoldenWolf
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Doug1029
47 minutes ago, GoldenWolf said:

I don't think the bible was ever meant for mass publication, I think it was just meant for the Clergy (his appointed enforcers).

It would certainly not make it as a Ph.D. dissertation.  Too many inconsistencies, math mistakes, three different versions of the ten commandments, the same name (Pharaoh) applied to 42 different people....

Doug

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Piney
1 hour ago, GoldenWolf said:

I don't think the bible was ever meant for mass publication, I think it was just meant for the Clergy (his appointed enforcers).

The New Testament was a "Library" of maybe several hundred Gospels. Anthanasius ordered them all destroyed except for 27 of them. It was meant for people who could read, not necessarily the masses. 

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Tatetopa
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

You have thus managed to both say that god, who advocated slavery, is right and that you think slavery is wrong. 

I think RavenHawks point is that we are slow learners and that god never liked slavery, he was giving us with free will time to understand his lessons.  That would explain his view I think.

3 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

But now in today’s world, we collectively see slavery as immoral which is an indication that we are learning what GOD has been teaching.

Yes, according to RavenHawk we are still learning god's lesson.

 

3 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

It would be almost as bad as AOC’s Green New Deal.

 

I think RavenHawk makes a good argument here for man's lagging education. RavenHawk himself is stuck somewhere along the way.  For all RavenHawk knows, Socialism and the Green New Deal is how god teaches man to be a good stewards of the earth and his brother's keeper.  In which case, it is not bad but the gateway to Heaven.

Edited by Tatetopa
spelling error.
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Piney
2 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

telling people not to eat shellfish was clearly deemed more important to him. :wacko: This is why I don't think the bible is a moral guide.

Leviticus is a medical manual for soldiers on the march ripped from another source.

Shellfish was because of red tides. Just like rabbits was because of viral infections. 

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Doug1029
6 minutes ago, Piney said:

The New Testament was a "Library" of maybe several hundred Gospels. Anthanasius ordered them all destroyed except for 27 of them. It was meant for people who could read, not necessarily the masses. 

A few others did survive.

Doug

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