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ellapenella

Communism , Totalitarianism & Atheism

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Piney
7 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

Wow!  We seem to have a lot in common.

 

I have the highest respect for you when it comes to environmental science and forestry management. I only took that 3 month course at Rutgers and went to fire school at Lackland and Hunter. Your the man with Foresters. 

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Doug1o29
21 minutes ago, Piney said:

The Finns and Swedes settled among us in 1635. That's where our splint baskets originated and possibly our sweat lodges.  But they weren't Vikings.

There are potentially lots of ways a sweat lodge could come to North America.

 

There are about 3000 North American place names that can be phonetically translated into English using an Icelandic dictionary.  These are nearly all in the Northeast.

The Iroquois long house very much resembles a Norse long house.  The Norse had saunas; the Iroquois had sweat lodges.

"Iroquois" means "people who live in the south."  "Surokwa" means "people who live in the south."  Where would you live if you considered the Iroquois to be southerners?

There is a confirmed Norse settlement at L'Anse au Meadows, Newfoundland.  Architecture is consistent with 8th, 10th and 12th century Norse construction.

There are a series of deadfall pits on Newfoundland that resemble deadfall pits used by the Norse to hunt reindeer.  Caribou are native to Newfoundland.

A runic carving on a rock on No Man's Land Island says "Leif was here."  Is it authentic?

There was a small runestone found in my hometown (Ashtabula, Ohio) on a lump of land called Fort Hill.  But nobody bothered to copy down what was on it and it has now been lost.

A Norse spearpoint was found on the southern shore of Lake Ontario.

A Norse penney was found on the coast of Maine.

The Kensington Stone tells the story of some lost Vikings trapped by winter on a Minnesota island.

The Heavener Runestone says:  "Glom's land" in Elder Futhark.

The Caves of Anu on the Arkansas River have ogham carvings.

The Norse were here and could easily have spread the sweat lodge all over eastern North America.  But did they?

Doug

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Doug1o29
8 minutes ago, Piney said:

I have the highest respect for you when it comes to environmental science and forestry management. I only took that 3 month course at Rutgers and went to fire school at Lackland and Hunter. Your the man with Foresters. 

That's probably more praise than I deserve, but I'll take it.

Thanks,

Doug

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Piney
14 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

"Iroquois" means "people who live in the south."  "Surokwa" means "people who live in the south."  Where would you live if you considered the Iroquois to be southerners?

That was a Northern Algonquian term. A lot of them lived above the Haud. In Lenape it's Shaawanaa. But we applied it the the Southeast Algonquians.

17 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

The Caves of Anu on the Arkansas River have ogham carvings.

You can search this site. They have been debunked amny times over.

18 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

There was a small runestone found in my hometown (Ashtabula, Ohio) on a lump of land called Fort Hill.  But nobody bothered to copy down what was on it and it has now been lost.

That's a proven fake.

19 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

There are a series of deadfall pits on Newfoundland that resemble deadfall pits used by the Norse to hunt reindeer.  Caribou are native to Newfoundland.

Deadfall pits for elk are found all over the Northeast. Some dating to the Archaic.

20 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

The Iroquois long house very much resembles a Norse long house.  The Norse had saunas; the Iroquois had sweat lodges.

So did the one's used by Southeastern Algonquians (Chawanoc) which date to the 900s. The gable roof longhouse came long after English contact. About the 1740s.

23 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

The Kensington Stone tells the story of some lost Vikings trapped by winter on a Minnesota island.

That was a way too obvious fraud. 

25 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

There are about 3000 North American place names that can be phonetically translated into English using an Icelandic dictionary.  These are nearly all in the Northeast.

Some were made by "mass comparsion" by sloppy researchers who were not linguists. The other ones originated with "New Sweden" in New Jersey and Delaware (cir1635) and some of them planted themselves in New York. 

I am conversational in Unami, Algonkin, and studied the reconstructed Proto-Algonquian. We have some Swedish loan words but not many. 

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Doug1o29
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Piney said:

That was a Northern Algonquian term. A lot of them lived above the Haud. In Lenape it's Shaawanaa. But we applied it the the Southeast Algonquians.

You can search this site. They have been debunked amny times over.

That's a proven fake.

Deadfall pits for elk are found all over the Northeast. Some dating to the Archaic.

So did the one's used by Southeastern Algonquians (Chawanoc) which date to the 900s. The gable roof longhouse came long after English contact. About the 1740s.

That was a way too obvious fraud. 

Some were made by "mass comparsion" by sloppy researchers who were not linguists. The other ones originated with "New Sweden" in New Jersey and Delaware (cir1635) and some of them planted themselves in New York. 

I am conversational in Unami, Algonkin, and studied the reconstructed Proto-Algonquian. We have some Swedish loan words but not many. 

It would be very difficult to prove much of anything about the runestone from my hometown, as the only mention of it is in the Williams Brothers history of 1893.  Before it could be tested, it would have to be found.  My guess:  it's in the debris piles along the east or south sides of Fort Hill.

The hypothesis is that the Norse heavily influenced the Algonquians.  Norse did not kill the peoples they found.  They married into them and adopted local customs.  Norse armor, shields and spears were no match for Indian bows and arrows where the shooter could stand well back from his target and aim at the head and neck.  That is why the Norse couldn't dominate the Indians.

The Norse and Swedes were not friends in Europe, why would they be friends here?

There are very early accounts of a band of blond-haired, blue-eyed Cree living on the east side of Hudson's Bay.  Way too late to test this, but...

Besides the Heavener Runestone, there are three other runestones from near there, but they do not contain full sentences; they're just fragments, like somebody started carving them and gave up.  Translations have been attempted, but none are very convincing.

The Caves of Anu also have Coptic inscriptions.  What if we could learn to read them?

I think many of those need some more debunking.

Doug

Edited by Doug1o29

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Piney
2 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

There are very early accounts of a band of blond-haired, blue-eyed Cree living on the east side of Hudson's Bay.  Way too late to test this, but...

It's funny but the Blond-Blue gene originated with the Uralics.  We have a "silver" hair gene that runs in Algonquians and Siouians. It could be a exaggeration. 

If you could provide  links to those accounts I would like to see them

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Piney

@Doug1o29  I'm going to start a thread in the right section after I'm done my work. Let's not derail more. 

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Doug1o29
12 minutes ago, Piney said:

It's funny but the Blond-Blue gene originated with the Uralics.  We have a "silver" hair gene that runs in Algonquians and Siouians. It could be a exaggeration. 

If you could provide  links to those accounts I would like to see them

Sherwin, R. T.  1940.  The Viking and the red man:  the Old Norse origin of the Algonquin language.  Funk and Wagnalls, New York and London.

I note that in Ohio and farther west, translation of place names using Icelandic doesn't work.

There is a claim that Old Norse replaced Algonquin, but I find this hard to believe.  More likely, a pidgen would have developed and might have replaced both parent languages.  There is a gap of about 300 years between the Norse and the French/English/Dutch settlement.  A lot can happen in 300 years.

Also, there is some question as to whether Sherwin's translations are a decent rendering of Old Norse.  I'm wondering what a professional linguist would say about this.

Doug

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Doug1o29
19 minutes ago, Piney said:

@Doug1o29  I'm going to start a thread in the right section after I'm done my work. Let's not derail more. 

OK.  I'll be waiting, but you've already heard most of my input.

Doug

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Piney
1 hour ago, Doug1o29 said:

There is a claim that Old Norse replaced Algonquin, but I find this hard to believe.  More likely, a pidgen would have developed and might have replaced both parent languages.  There is a gap of about 300 years between the Norse and the French/English/Dutch settlement.  A lot can happen in 300 years.

 

Don't believe it. The "trade talk" William Penn spoke was outright Southern Unami. 

I'm currently studying the connections between the Algic languages and one of the Jurchen languages. (Nivkh) which would makes us close cousins to the Manchu. 

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Piney
1 hour ago, Doug1o29 said:

OK.  I'll be waiting, but you've already heard most of my input.

Doug

Cool, I want rest up anyway. I have a herd of creatures called 9 and 10 year olds this week and they are energy draining. 

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)

Hmmm..

It has dawned on me a certain type of animal (predominantly alt rightish Christian denomination?) seems to maintain an unhealthy, irrational level of fear for thesame '(existential) threats':

- 'Communism / Socialism' (which are equated by thesame);

- 'Leftists';

- 'Islam';

- 'Migrants'.

Now why would that be I wonder.. The reason cant be rightwing 'mainstream media', because they dont watch 'mainstream media / fake news'.. So what do they watch?

( ..:D.. )

Wild guess: Fox, Breitbart, Rush, FaceBook

Edited by Phaeton80
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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, Doug1o29 said:

OK.  I'll be waiting, but you've already heard most of my input.

Doug

Good, me too  I look forward to a congenial and enlightening discussion.   There is a lot to dig into.  Best regards.

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Tatetopa
4 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:
On 3/16/2019 at 4:52 PM, Tatetopa said:

Not from me friend. Sadly, it wasn't my call, and its safer not to criticize the boss. I did write the instructions for reconstituting brine shrimp though.   I was only a junior design engineer in the arthropod department.  I did trilobites and mantis shrimp and helped a friend out with tardigrades .  We did it after work on our own time when we were supposed to be resting.  The boss got onto us for working through break . Still, rather proud of that tardigrade . It was a hoot.

 

On 3/16/2019 at 5:02 PM, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

You are right to be proud of the tardigrade. Thats one tough critter ! :P

Ok, I’m confused. :(  

YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN!!!!!!!!!

Sorry Stubbly.  for whatever reason, I felt whimsically inclined to respond to Noteverythingisaconspiracy in a whimsical, Monty Python, "Time Bandits" vein.  

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Golden Duck
 
 
 
2
14 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 

Well, this is the first time I have ever heard of the Platinum rule. (Diamond rule too as well, for that matter) And, I see a bit of a conundrum there. So, how is those who wish to be treated well, going to get that if we can’t read minds? Are they going to tell us? 

(If this makes sense) 

I tried to make it clear earlier that we are, for the most part, subject to codified rules of conduct under criminal or administrative law.  Proclaiming you adhere to some Gold, Platinum or Diamond standard, of behaviour, in an effort to prove you're at the peak of morality is meaningless. 

However, it is my contention that codified standards of behaviour will more likely resemble the Platinum standard than the Gold.  IMO, the various employment contracts I've signed obviously support this contention. Many of the links regarding this subject in the last few days appear to be written more for an HR environment; and, they suggest ways to resolve this your concern.

I suggested examples of a generalised test, in the spirit of the Hicklin Test, and Australias Racial Vilification Laws.  If Ego's treatment of another is questioned, Ego's comfort with that (reciprocal) treatment is irrelevant.  Here you would be subject to the standard of the community or 'the other' - not 'the self'.

Another scenario - that is unenforceable - is the local train network.  There is a provision of 'quiet carriages' where commuters can expect not to be disturbed by loud conversation or music.  If a commuter offends another, I expect they will be informed.  If the commuter chooses to continue to behave with regard only for themselves, I expect the environment would become increasingly uncomfortable until they either complied or moved.

Yet another scenario we might look at is the issue of JW's and blood transfusion.  In this situation, I admit, my beliefs are conflicted.  But, there are policies and procedures in place to mandate how this situation is handled.

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Podo
22 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

Hmmm..

It has dawned on me a certain type of animal (predominantly alt rightish Christian denomination?) seems to maintain an unhealthy, irrational level of fear for thesame '(existential) threats':

- 'Communism / Socialism' (which are equated by thesame);

- 'Leftists';

- 'Islam';

- 'Migrants'.

Now why would that be I wonder.. The reason cant be rightwing 'mainstream media', because they dont watch 'mainstream media / fake news'.. So what do they watch?

( ..:D.. )

Wild guess: Fox, Breitbart, Rush, FaceBook

I would have guessed their own shrivelled insides, since they spend so much time with their heads firmly lodged in their own...y'know. 

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Doug1o29
On 3/18/2019 at 12:20 PM, Piney said:

Don't believe it. The "trade talk" William Penn spoke was outright Southern Unami. 

I'm currently studying the connections between the Algic languages and one of the Jurchen languages. (Nivkh) which would makes us close cousins to the Manchu. 

Sounds interesting.  Let us know what you come up with.

Doug

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RavenHawk
On 3/16/2019 at 2:06 PM, Doug1o29 said:

She did pretty good for a first draft.

Only in a Progressive wet dream.

 

How many drafts has the Bible been through without getting rid of the mistakes?

In this sense, the Bible has never been in a draft state.  It is a collection of works that probably were edited real-time during the original writing.

 

Have you actually read the Green New Deal (There are two versions.  You can read both in 30 minutes.), or are you just spouting right-wing claptrap?

No, I haven’t read it and I am spouting logical claptrap.  I know the points and the first thing that came to mind is, “who is going to pay for all of it?”  Everything listed can be taken care of by the free market.  Government is not the solution.  This Green New Deal is a recipe for poverty and misery (except of course for the ruling elite).  None of it is sustainable.

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Doug1o29
34 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Only in a Progressive wet dream.

There are a few problems with it.

1.  She doesn't seem to know how Federal funding of research works.  The Feds do the basic research, then industry/business takes over and turns basic research into usable products.  If she is sincerely interested in having the Feds do all the work, then that will require more investment in product development.  A better idea would be to license parts of basic research to industry with the Feds keeping the profit.  But that won't do anything about drug prices.

Her beef seems to be that drug prices are way too high.  Some glaring abuses come to mind:  an Epi-pen that sold for $10 suddenly went to $600.  Why?  Because patent rights gave the manufacturer a monopoly.  The solution:  anything over X% profit voids the patent.  There would have to be a standardized formula for computing profit.  Manufacturers could then walk a balancing act, keeping their product prices low enough to protect their patents and keeping competitors out of the market.

Drug companies claim that research and development costs are high, so they have to charge a lot.  BUT:  most of their R&D costs are about how to get around somebody else's patent, not to produce new drugs.

The Federal govt usually initiates basic research, such as the space program, such as wind and solar and battery research.  This does not produce a new product, but shows what is needed by a new product.  Private industry then takes over and developments better windmills, better solar panels and better batteries.  It's actually a fairly-efficient system.

2.  Her goal of initiating terraforming of the atmosphere before 2030 is too ambitious.  We haven't developed the basic research yet.  We can't start the car until we get a motor to put in it.  So the 2020s need to see a lot of research on how to bring down CO2.  Wait until the 2030s before we go into production work.  Remember Obama's solar plant?  The technology wasn't ready and the plant failed.  Did this surprise anybody?  Better to start a little late than to fall on your face and discredit your whole program.

3.  Her cap-and-trade proposal won't work.  All cap-and-trade does is move pollution around.  We need to bring it DOWN.  She has fallen for the industrial fall-back position.  So what to do?  A carbon production fee charged at the mine mouth, well head or port-of-entry.  Distribute these fees to citizens on a per capita basis.  To get people to buy alternate products, we must be sure they have money and alternate products available.  Carbon taxes only take money; they don't give any back.  Industry will provide alternate products - but she needs a free market for that to work.  So we have to make sure that industry is not artificially controlling the market.  A free market is a delicate thing.  Somebody needs to take care of it, or big companies gobble it up for their own profit.

 

Aside from those, it's mostly a workable and practical solution to a great many of our problems.  We are going to be doing something to reform our way of life pretty soon because it is not working as things are.

 

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

No, I haven’t read it and I am spouting logical claptrap.

I couldn't have said it better.

Doug

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RavenHawk
On 3/15/2019 at 7:45 PM, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

I think this is a very relevant video in regards to this discussion:

I know you probably won't see this video @RavenHawk but you really should. 

I watched it.  It was a very interesting video and the one word that came to me was ‘ignorance’.

 

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.” - 1 Corinthians 2:14

 

I think I could spend an entire week just debunking it, but I’m not all that motivated to do so.  Aron Ra mentions some contradictions.  I really don’t think they are contradictions.  Then in another spot he talks about GOD should provide a number system and calendar and that not doing so doesn’t make him a good GOD.  But it is little things like this that Aron Ra shows his ignorance.  In Genesis 2:20, Adam names the animals.  This begins Man’s curiosity and the sciences.  The number system and calendar are for Man to invent.  He also says that early Man would not have understood the sciences that we have today and yet he mentions that GOD should have given man those things.  But that is what we see in Genesis 1:1.  This is a top-level description of evolution written in Adam’s point of view via a dream state.  He couldn’t understand what he saw but he recorded it as best as he could.  Well, this was before writing so he had to make it a story in prose with mnemonics.

 

These are just initial thoughts.  If you have a particular spot you want me to comment on, then bring it up.  I have no doubt that in his heart of hearts, Aron Ra believes that he is being honest.  But he comes across as somebody that is full of it.

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Rlyeh
19 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.” - 1 Corinthians 2:14

If you don't agree with my superstitious stories then you don't have the magical gift to understand them.

Flawless logic.

 

19 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

I think I could spend an entire week just debunking it, but I’m not all that motivated to do so.  Aron Ra mentions some contradictions.  I really don’t think they are contradictions.  Then in another spot he talks about GOD should provide a number system and calendar and that not doing so doesn’t make him a good GOD.  But it is little things like this that Aron Ra shows his ignorance.  In Genesis 2:20, Adam names the animals.  This begins Man’s curiosity and the sciences.  The number system and calendar are for Man to invent.  He also says that early Man would not have understood the sciences that we have today and yet he mentions that GOD should have given man those things.  But that is what we see in Genesis 1:1.  This is a top-level description of evolution written in Adam’s point of view via a dream state.  He couldn’t understand what he saw but he recorded it as best as he could.  Well, this was before writing so he had to make it a story in prose with mnemonics.

For you an entire week clutching at straws isn't anything out of the ordinary.

We don't see anything remotely scientific in Genesis.  Genesis 1 depicts a geocentric creation myth.  And no Adam didn't write it, in fact Moses didn't either.

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Podo
2 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

For you an entire week clutching at straws isn't anything out of the ordinary.

We don't see anything remotely scientific in Genesis.  Genesis 1 depicts a geocentric creation myth.  And no Adam didn't write it, in fact Moses didn't either.

You're wasting your time. The Libertarian pill is firmly lodged into her throat, nothing can remove it.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
1 hour ago, Podo said:

You're wasting your time. The Libertarian pill is firmly lodged into her throat, nothing can remove it.

I did start to write a response to RavenHawk, but then I decided that it would be a waste of time.

He will probably take that as some kind of victory. If that makes him happy I'm fine with that, as he seem like a person who isn't happyvery often. 

 

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