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Ajay0

Interesting correlation between God and light

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Cookie Monster

Nothingness is the absence of everything.

As things can only exist if they are made from something, as nothingness cannot be made from anything, then nothingness has never and will never exist. At the very minimum there has always been one thing.

In most religions there is first a potential which allows all things to come into existence. That is even in Christianity if people read an original Hebrew Bible rather than their King James. As one thing must always exist then that brings into existence from the potential the one thing itself, the duality needed for it to exist, and the polar opposites in that duality.

That means God comes into existence from the potential automatically because nothingness is impossible. Along with it the duality upon which its existence is based, and the polar opposites in that duality which is us, also came into existence. The two poles in the duality are framed in religion as light and darkness, as giving and receiving, as God and his creatures, etc.

Illumination is when we figure out that the universe is not the complete unified potential. Our universe is instead the result of a separation, a division, a duality, which came into existence from the potential. One in which God has been separated off from us leaving us on our own.

In mysticism there are certain practices to counter that original duality, to in some ways glue its two poles back together making the light and dark one, making the giving and receiving equivalent to each other, unifying God with his creatures. The practice is quite simply:

God is the giver, we are the receiver. Our job is to allow ourselves to receive all pleasures from God. Not for ourselves, but to give God pleasure back. Hence we give to God and force it to receive back. Then both poles in the duality have achieved equivalence of form.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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joc
2 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

That means God comes into existence from the potential automatically because nothingness is impossible. Along with it the duality upon which its existence is based, and the polar opposites in that duality which is us, also came into existence.

Came into existence....

....from what...something that already was?  What was it?  And how did it come into existence?

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Cookie Monster
1 minute ago, joc said:

Came into existence....

....from what...something that already was?  What was it?  And how did it come into existence?

In philosophy explaining non-duality while getting the language exact is a very hard task.

Non-duality is not a material object, it is not a physical thing, and it is not a form of energy. It has no existence in any way, shape, or form. All things that exist are built upon duality relationships, where as with non-duality there are no duality relationships. Thats the best I can do, if you require any further clarity then you need to talk to an expert on Hinduism or Buddhism.

I have argued that as nothingness is impossible that at the very minimum one thing must have always existed. I have put the label of God on it. When I say God came from the potential I do not mean a form of temporal causation because there never was a time before God. When I say the duality that the existence of God created resulted in its polar opposite also existing then we cannot identify a point when that happened too. Thats because God and the duality have always existed, there was no starting point, there is no end point. One thing must always exist and the duality that goes with it always exists.

One thing existing requires other things to exist too. All things that exist can only exist if they have somewhere to exist, exist at a point in time, and are made out of something. So space, time, and matter, also exist. Both for God and for its polar opposite which is us. The flow of time is the continued existence of God, its polar opposite being us, and the universe that is.

We can never unify every duality into the non-existent state of non-duality, its impossible as one thing must always exist. But we can counteract dualities by making polar opposites the same as each other. The receiver can become the giver using practices which force God into the role of receiving.

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joc
8 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

In philosophy explaining non-duality while getting the language exact is a very hard task.

Non-duality is not a material object, it is not a physical thing, and it is not a form of energy. It has no existence in any way, shape, or form. All things that exist are built upon duality relationships, where as with non-duality there are no duality relationships. Thats the best I can do, if you require any further clarity then you need to talk to an expert on Hinduism or Buddhism.

I have argued that as nothingness is impossible that at the very minimum one thing must have always existed. I have put the label of God on it. When I say God came from the potential I do not mean a form of temporal causation because there never was a time before God. When I say the duality that the existence of God created resulted in its polar opposite also existing then we cannot identify a point when that happened too. Thats because God and the duality have always existed, there was no starting point, there is no end point. One thing must always exist and the duality that goes with it always exists.

One thing existing requires other things to exist too. All things that exist can only exist if they have somewhere to exist, exist at a point in time, and are made out of something. So space, time, and matter, also exist. Both for God and for its polar opposite which is us. The flow of time is the continued existence of God, its polar opposite being us, and the universe that is.

We can never unify every duality into the non-existent state of non-duality, its impossible as one thing must always exist. But we can counteract dualities by making polar opposites the same as each other. The receiver can become the giver using practices which force God into the role of receiving.

Which came first Something or Nothing?  As I stated earlier...it has always been...is not really an answer.  

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Cookie Monster
29 minutes ago, joc said:

Which came first Something or Nothing?  As I stated earlier...it has always been...is not really an answer.  

This sound to me like you have lack of awareness about the different forms of causation known to exist.

Linear Causation: Linear causation requires a beginning and an end. It requires an initial cause leading to an end effect at some later point in time. This is the only form of causation that the whole population know about and is temporal (one thing coming after the other).

Non-Linear Causation: This is when a cause and effect occur at the same time and are dependent on each other. It can be called interdependent causation, dependent causation, or dependent arising. It is also termed non-local causation in physics. This type of causation people get from university and is non-temporal.

Inverted Causation: This can be linear or non-linear. Its when the lack of something is the cause of something else. For instance if we make an electronic circuit using a NAND or NOR gate then we can produce a particular outcome.

In your reply you are asking a temporal question about a non-temporal entity. Thats why it doesnt make sense to you and why you have passed over the answer which already exists in my previous post. You cannot frame God as arising from temporal causation because there was no before it. Nothingness is impossible, God has always existed.

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joc
12 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Nothingness is impossible, God has always existed.

Please demonstrate your understanding by sharing very real world Linear Causation examples as well as very real world Inverted Causation examples. Thank you.

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Cookie Monster
51 minutes ago, joc said:

Please demonstrate your understanding by sharing very real world Linear Causation examples as well as very real world Inverted Causation examples. Thank you.

If you are a primary school student in the early years of your education then I will gladly help you out by giving you an example of linear causation. If however you are an adult (as I suspect) then your need to ask for such an example is so utterly ridiculous that I wont answer you.

You have already had an example of inverted causation but as that one is more specialist in knowledge I will explain further.

AND Gates: 11 input results in a 1 output.

NAND Gates: This inverts the outcome of AND gates meaning that a 00, 01, or 10, input gives a 1 output. A 00 input (no input at all) provides an output which might turn a motor on (as an example).

Going further there is Boolean Algebra which is a system of logical reasoning that college and university students get taught (depending on their subjects) and can be applied to many things in the real world. There is inversion in it too, and because of this it is often used in electrical engineering when building complex networks of logic gates as needed.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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joc
1 minute ago, RabidMongoose said:

If you are a primary school student in the early years of your education then I will gladly help you out by giving you an example of linear causation. If however you are an adult (as I suspect) then your need to ask for such an example is so utterly ridiculous that I wont answer you.

my bad...I meant non-linear

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Cookie Monster
Just now, joc said:

my bad...I meant non-linear

Lets consider the following example:

You plug the kettle in, turn it on, it boils, it turns off, you make a brew.

That is an example of linear causation with linear meaning each step occurs one after the other in a sequence of time. Non-linear causation doesnt involve time. Instead all steps occur together. If you want to read up on it I would recommend Buddhist sources on dependent origination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratītyasamutpāda

If you want examples of non-linear causation at work I would recommend looking into Einstein`s spooky action at a distance. Here is a link on it: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/04/einstein-s-spooky-action-distance-spotted-objects-almost-big-enough-see. If you are feeling brave watch some YouTube videos on Two Atom Correlation experiments or Quantum teleportation which both work of spooky action at a distance. 

Another example of non-linear causation would be how you exist at a specific location rather than across the universe. You know this to be true because its logically absurd to be everywhere at once. You being here and not there instantaneously occur together, no steps in a sequence of time need to occur.  Thats also dependent origination when you can logically say something true about one thing and this causes something to be logically true about something else. If you are located at home you cannot also be located in the supermarket.

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joc
1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

Lets consider the following example:

You plug the kettle in, turn it on, it boils, it turns off, you make a brew.

That is an example of linear causation with linear meaning each step occurs one after the other in a sequence of time. Non-linear causation doesnt involve time. Instead all steps occur together. If you want to read up on it I would recommend Buddhist sources on dependent origination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratītyasamutpāda

If you want examples of non-linear causation at work I would recommend looking into Einstein`s spooky action at a distance. Here is a link on it: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/04/einstein-s-spooky-action-distance-spotted-objects-almost-big-enough-see. If you are feeling brave watch some YouTube videos on Two Atom Correlation experiments or Quantum teleportation which both work of spooky action at a distance. 

Another example of non-linear causation would be how you exist at a specific location rather than across the universe. You know this to be true because its logically absurd to be everywhere at once. You being here and not there instantaneously occur together, no steps in a sequence of time need to occur.  Thats also dependent origination when you can logically say something true about one thing and this causes something to be logically true about something else. If you are located at home you cannot also be located in the supermarket.

That's what I thought...you can't give a real life situation of non-linear causation because it isn't a real thing.  Kettle, on, boils, off.  That's real...and linear...and we call that reality...I call non-linear Woo!  If anyone else wants to give me a real life working model of non-linear...I'm all ears. :)

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Cookie Monster
1 hour ago, joc said:

That's what I thought...you can't give a real life situation of non-linear causation because it isn't a real thing.  Kettle, on, boils, off.  That's real...and linear...and we call that reality...I call non-linear Woo!  If anyone else wants to give me a real life working model of non-linear...I'm all ears. :)

Your lack of ability to read what is in my posts and pretending that things arent in them as now resulted in you going onto my ignore list as there is no point in debating with you.

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joc
17 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Your lack of ability to read what is in my posts and pretending that things arent in them as now resulted in you going onto my ignore list as there is no point in debating with you.

I'm honored!  I feel like I won a prize!  :)  Oh wait...I did...I won the argument! :sk:gun:

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Rlyeh
On 1/1/2020 at 3:20 AM, RabidMongoose said:

This sound to me like you have lack of awareness about the different forms of causation known to exist.

Sounds like to me you're just making stuff up.  For starters logic gates operate on a signal or signals, that's causation not "inverted causation".

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lightly

Thanks AjayO. . .I think it's interesting too....  enlightened or 'blessed' beings in various religiious and spiritual belief systems are often pictured as being  Radiant  or sometimes 'wear' a   Halo.    

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Horta
On 2/26/2019 at 3:52 AM, Ajay0 said:

 

Hi All, :)

I have come across some observations which depict an interesting correlation between God and light....

In Hinduism, the Vedas and Hindu scriptures consider the Shivalinga as representing a cosmic pillar of light. The Dharmic monotheistic sect the Prajapita Brahmakumaris consider God to be a point of light.


In Islam, Allah has 100 name's, and one of them is Alnoor ( the Light).

“God is light,” says 1 John 1:5, in the Bible in Christianity.

In Judaism, Psalm 76:4 says of God, “You are radiant with light.”

So this correlation between God and light, is a common denominator in these four major world religions.

Imo, the fire worship in Zoroastrianism may be illustrating this correlation between God (Ahura Mazda ) and light as well, light being emitted by the fire.

If you find any further proofs or evidences in this regard, please do share it here. smile.gif


Thanking you all in advance.
 

First off, I would like to point out that I'm an atheist lol (where popular religious myths are concerned).

Though I find this interesting from experience. An experience that started as a "point of light" that became all encompassing, and a feeling of being one with the light itself. No personal identity, no thought, just a feeling and experience of existing as eternal and infinite light and stillness. A beauty that can't be described and that had, and still does have profound effects on the way I view certain things.

Though neuroscience might have more answers for this than religion (although I don't know that). It might be a happy accident of neurons, or it might hint at some greater aspect to existence. It's certainly a stretch to conflate such a thing with god (especially the "bigoted idiot in the sky" of popular religion).

Interesting subject though. Often wondered if the universe could be experienced from the pov of light, how would time and space appear? Would there be any such thing?

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Habitat
4 minutes ago, Horta said:

Interesting subject though. Often wondered if the universe could be experienced from the pov of light, how would time and space appear? Would there be any such thing?

Whilst we say light from a distant galaxy took billions of years to get to us, is it not so that from the POV of the photon, it was instantaneous ?

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Horta
4 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Whilst we say light from a distant galaxy took billions of years to get to us, is it not so that from the POV of the photon, it was instantaneous ?

Yes it is habitat (afaik). From the pov of light no time would elapse and the distance would shrink to 0 (in direction of travel). Could be my misunderstanding though, if so I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will correct me.

It is a fascinating idea. There are ancient mystical/spiritual traditions devoted solely around this type of experience (eastern). So people have been experiencing it for a while.

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Mr Walker
On 1/1/2020 at 7:45 AM, RabidMongoose said:

Your lack of ability to read what is in my posts and pretending that things arent in them as now resulted in you going onto my ignore list as there is no point in debating with you.

joc has a point.

I suspect there is no scientific evidence for non linear causation.

Indeed the name itself is an oxymoron.  Even  quantum entanglement probably has a linear element

The rest is down to perception and the point of observation/measurement, which can affect our perception of time etc.  

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Mr Walker
On 2/3/2020 at 4:21 PM, Habitat said:

Whilst we say light from a distant galaxy took billions of years to get to us, is it not so that from the POV of the photon, it was instantaneous ?

lol photons dont have a pov (see my post above) Time occurred even "for" the photon, and even travelling at the speed of light. Other wise light would not be limited to a speed but would spread everywhere instantly 

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Habitat
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

lol photons dont have a pov (see my post above) Time occurred even "for" the photon, and even travelling at the speed of light. Other wise light would not be limited to a speed but would spread everywhere instantly 

I don't agree, from the POV of an observer at light speed, there is no interval of time.

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Mr Walker
Just now, Habitat said:

I don't agree, from the POV of an observer at light speed, there is no interval of time.

That's what i said in my "post above"

It is not reality but perspective 

Otherwise, for example, the universe would not be continuously expanding over time.

it would have instantly expanded everywhere 

Light travels a t a fixed speed thus, while it might appear to you that you got somewhere instantly, it actually took the time it took for the light to get there. Travel back to your starting point  again, at the speed of light,   and (depending on the distance travelled)  everyone you knew would be long dead due to the passage of time 

In reality you would also still be aging just more slowly by comparison to those on earth 

quote

Alpha Centauri is technically 4.5 light-years away, but Wolfram Alpha won’t let me do that calculation, so I’ve set the value for 4. Traveling at 99.9c for 4 years (Earth time) means you’d experience a trip of about 2 weeks (14 days). Yes, everyone on Earth will have aged four years and you will have aged only 2 weeks. To imagine this dilation effect for this particular trip, you can think of it one of two ways; either time on the ship is moving 110 times slower than ‘normal’ or you’re traveling a distance 110 times shorter – as far as spacetime is concerned, it’s the same thing.

 

https://futurism.com/physical-concequences-of-light-speed-travel

Ps not sure if the maths is exactly right Here is a different calculation

quote 

If before you started, you decided to travel to a destination that was 50 light-years away and you took off at 99.9% of the speed of light, it would take just over 50 years to get there according to the earth's rest frame. However, time for you would be dilated by a factor of 22.366 so you would age by only 50/22.366 which is 2.24 years so you would not look 70+ years but rather 22.24 years and it would feel like a 2.24 year journey. You would only have to bring 2.24 years worth of supplies, assuming that you could re-supply at your destination.

Source https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/aging-when-travelling-near-the-speed-of-light.794802/

 

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Horta
7 hours ago, Habitat said:

I don't agree, from the POV of an observer at light speed, there is no interval of time.

Agreed.

Time and space don't exist for something travelling at the speed of light.

I thought this was basic to relativity?

From a PhD Astrophysicist (who has a good blog).

Quote

For an observer here on Earth, the light will be emitted from the Sun some eight minutes (more like 8:20) before we receive it, and if we could “watch” the photon travel, it would appear to move at the speed of light throughout its entire journey. But if there were a “clock” on board this photon, it would appear to be entirely stopped to us. While those just-over-eight-minutes would pass as normal for us, the photon would experience absolutely no passage of time.

This gets particularly disturbing when we look at distant galaxies in the Universe. The light emitted from them takes billions of years to reach us from our point of view as observers in the Milky Way. During this time, the expansion of the Universe causes space to stretch, and the energy of the emitted photons to drop tremendously: a cosmological redshift. Yet despite this incredible journey, the photon itself experiences none of what we know as time: it simply is emitted and then instantaneously is absorbed, experiencing the entirety of its travels through space in literally no time. Given everything that we know, a photon never ages in any way at all.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2016/09/30/how-do-photons-experience-time/#308eed80278d

 

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Habitat
53 minutes ago, Horta said:

Agreed.

Time and space don't exist for something travelling at the speed of light.

I thought this was basic to relativity?

From a PhD Astrophysicist (who has a good blog).

 

That seems to be the case, we get mentally strained thinking of billions of years, in reality that light is as fresh as a daisy !

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Crikey
On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 4:52 PM, Ajay0 said:

I have come across some observations which depict an interesting correlation between God and light....
If you find any further proofs or evidences in this regard, please do share it here. smile.gif

I can toss these verses into the playpen if you like-

"God goes by me but I see him not.......Men cannot see the bright light in the clouds" (Bible: Job 9:10,Job 37:21)

 

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Mr Walker
21 hours ago, Horta said:

Agreed.

Time and space don't exist for something travelling at the speed of light.

I thought this was basic to relativity?

From a PhD Astrophysicist (who has a good blog).

 

The examples i gave only went up  to 99.9% light speed but did show that there is still a passage of time 

maybe theory in physics says that no time passes. But again, that is ONLY with reference to the particle.

Time continues to pass and it takes the particle a certain time to travel a certain distance  even at light speed.   Are you  arguing that if i could travel 500 million light years at the speed of light i wouldn't notice any time and would arrive the same age as when i left?    

When i have considered this as part of instantaneous teleportation i have been howled  down 

It would also suggest that, on attaining the abilty to travel at the speed of light ,  humans could travel anywhere in the universe without aging,  although  they could never come back to the place they left   

Of course the matter of matter(increased mass)  would have to be solved  

I have a strange feeling that Einstein is as wrong on this as were those who said that travelling faster than a horse could travel would put such strains on the human body that you would die 

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