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God without scriptures?

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Will do
5 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

They are allegedly the words of God. 

 

Yes. But words aren't God.

 

 

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Will do
41 minutes ago, Habitat said:

human concepts of God are not restricted to those promoted in religious texts.

 

And concepts or ideas, aren't necessarily accurate about what and who God actually is too.

We have lots of ideas about lots of things that aren't necessarily accurate about what's true.

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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Will do

 

You can worship words.

But that doesn't necessarily mean you'll be worshipping God.

 

 

Edited by Will Due

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Sherapy
3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

lol No I was referring to the different laws in each state and the different political and  social demographics.

While some laws are covered by federal jurisdiction, many are covered by state laws.

However mainly it is social attitudes, reflected in surveyed  political choices and religious affiliations which makes the difference 

There are better sources but, as usual, wiki covers the basics nicely. Check, especially, the maps. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_States

quote

Why are there more gay people in California?

 

So a quick Reverse Google Image Search came up with this: Gallup Special Report: New Estimates of the LGBT Population in the United States

The summary there says:

The percentage of adults in the United States who identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT) ranges from 1.7% in North Dakota to 5.1% in Hawaii and 10% in the District of Columbia ...  While LGBT communities are clearly present in every state in the union, their visibility is generally higher in states with greater levels of social acceptance and LGBT supportive legal climates.

Social climates that promote acceptance of or stigma toward LGBT individuals could affect how many adults disclose an LGBT identity. LGBT people who live in places where they feel accepted may be more likely than those who live in places where they feel stigmatized to reveal their sexual orientation or gender identity to a survey interviewer.

...

The states with proportionally larger LGBT populations generally have supportive LGBT legal climates. With the exception of South Dakota, all of the states that have LGBT populations of at least 4% have laws that prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity and allow same-sex couples to marry, enter into a civil union, or register as domestic partners. Of the 10 states with the lowest percentage of LGBT adults, only Iowa has such laws.

...

Higher proportions of LGBT individuals in a state could also suggest that LGBT individuals move there in higher proportions than the general population does. While highly concentrated (and mostly male) LGBT neighborhoods exist in many cities and are certainly in part a result of this type of migration, little is known about the broader migration patterns of the LGBT community. Given prior Gallup findings showing that the LGBT population is disproportionately young, female, and nonwhite -- all of which are groups with economic disadvantages that could limit their abilities to move -- it seems unlikely that migration is the primary reason for variation in LGBT identification across states.

end quote

Still I could have chosen a state other than texas 

While California has  one of the highest percentage of gays in the usa there are many  mid-eastern states with lower percentages 

naturally, DC has the highest, at 10% 

California; 4%

Texas; 3.3 %

South Dakota  1.7%

 

quote

ll my life I’ve loved Texas: those big skies, big steaks and big attitudes. I’m there several times a year.

But Texas doesn’t love me back. Certainly its lawmakers don’t, and lately they’ve been hellbent on showing that.

In June the governor signed a bill allowing child welfare groups to refuse adoptions that contradict their “sincerely held religious beliefs.” They can turn away gay men like me.

That same month, the Texas Supreme Court approved a lawsuit challenging the city of Houston’s provision of equal benefits to all married employees, including those with same-sex spouses. Although the United States Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage nationwide in 2015, Texas bucks and balks.

Not New York. My state loves me something fierce. What it did in June was finalize the design of a monument to L.G.B.T. citizens in downtown Manhattan. New York legalized same-sex marriage back in 2011 without any federal nudge.

There’s no such thing as L.G.B.T. life in America, a country even more divided on this front than on others. There’s L.G.B.T. life in a group of essentially progressive places like New York, Maryland, Oregon and California, which bans government-funded travel to states it deems unduly discriminatory. Then there is L.G.B.T. life on that blacklist, which includes Texas, Kansas, Mississippi and South Dakota.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/25/opinion/sunday/worst-and-best-places-to-be-gay.html

 

 

 

 

My advice is don’t beleive everything you read.

You literally google searched articles that serve to support your biased opinion.

I prepare taxes MW please see the following link. 

So you have an issue with gays, or you have a need for attention, why not work on finding healthier ways to help yourself. 

This is from the IRS.

A1. For federal tax purposes, the IRS looks to state or foreign law to determine whether individuals are married. The IRS has a general rule recognizing a marriage of same-sex spouses that was validly entered into in a domestic or foreign jurisdiction whose laws authorize the marriage of two individuals of the same sex even if the married couple resides in a domestic or foreign jurisdiction that does not recognize the validity of same-sex marriages.

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/answers-to-frequently-asked-questions-for-same-sex-married-couples

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Mr Walker
1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

I would say they are as that's the only place the idea of God is recorded. Whether one recognises God ad imaginary, or thinks god is real changes nothing there. 

They are allegedly the words of God. 

really?  What about all the other recorded gods, from Egypt, Mesopotamia,  Greece, Rome, China, japan, Africa, pacific ocean meso america etc ? 

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Mr Walker
28 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

My advice is don’t beleive everything you read.

You literally google searched articles that serve to support your biased opinion.

I prepare taxes MW please see the following link. 

So you have an issue with gays, or you have a need for attention, why not work on finding healthier ways to help yourself. 

This is from the IRS.

A1. For federal tax purposes, the IRS looks to state or foreign law to determine whether individuals are married. The IRS has a general rule recognizing a marriage of same-sex spouses that was validly entered into in a domestic or foreign jurisdiction whose laws authorize the marriage of two individuals of the same sex even if the married couple resides in a domestic or foreign jurisdiction that does not recognize the validity of same-sex marriages.

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/answers-to-frequently-asked-questions-for-same-sex-married-couples

No silly I already knew these things from my reading and education I only googled them to prove my point to YOU seeing as you don't believe it when i just tell you anything 

You wanted to argue facts with me. That is NEVER a smart thing to do 

There is no bias in this.  The statistics and difference in laws and attitudes  are clear and the opinion of the GLBT etc writer was very clear,  

Dont you DARE attribute either bias or prejudice to me.

Did you or did you not read my post and sources?

I actually pointed out that, in general, federal law is supportive of gay rights; and tax falls under federal law 

While federal legislation (so far)  is supportive of gays, state legislation varies a lot and it is often state legislation which affects such things as housing. If you were correct, your own state of California would not need to refuse to subsidise govt travel to states which are NOT supportive of the rights of gays . 

So i shouldnt believe a gay writer, I shouldn't believe gallup poll results, and i shouldn't believe that  the actual laws of states affect gay people adversely but i should believe YOU ???? 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/02/19/united-states-state-laws-threaten-lgbt-equality

 

United States: State Laws Threaten LGBT Equality

(New York, February 19, 2018) – The rash of new “religious exemption” laws passed by state legislatures around the United States represent a thinly-veiled assault against the rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. In the absence of robust nondiscrimination protections, these laws function as a license to discriminate rather than a good faith attempt to protect religious liberty and should be repealed.

The 41-page report, “‘All We Want is Equality’: Religious Exemptions and Discrimination against LGBT People in the United States,” documents how recent laws carve out space to discriminate against LGBT people in adoption and foster care, health care, and access to some goods and services. These laws fail to balance moral and religious objections to LGBT relationships and identities with the rights of LGBT people themselves, Human Rights Watch found. The findings illustrate that these exemptions encourage discriminatory refusals, discourage LGBT people from seeking out services, and harm people’s dignity.

The majority of the interviews took place in three states. In Mississippi, state law permits a wide array of individuals, businesses, and service providers to discriminate based on their religious or moral objections to same-sex marriage, extramarital sex, and the recognition of transgender identity. In Tennessee, a recent state law permits mental health counselors to turn away clients based on their religious beliefs. And in Michigan, adoption and foster care agencies that receive support from the state are explicitly empowered to refuse to place children with LGBT parents on account of the agencies’ own moral or religious objections. Alabama, North Dakota, South Dakota, Texas, and Virginia also have adoption and foster care exemptions in place.

Currently, only 19 states and the District of Columbia explicitly prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity in employment, housing, and public accommodations. Another three states offer partial protections; New Hampshire and Wisconsin prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation but not gender identity, and Utah prohibits discrimination in employment and housing but not public accommodations. The other 28 states lack statutory provisions that explicitly prohibit discrimination against LGBT people.

 

 

and while it is a bit old, this article is still informative

 

 https://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2012/may/08/gay-rights-united-states

Edited by Mr Walker

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Habitat
7 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

really?  What about all the other recorded gods, from Egypt, Mesopotamia,  Greece, Rome, China, japan, Africa, pacific ocean meso america etc ? 

Give P101 a break, stop wheeling out more Gods than a man can be expected to demolish in a fair day's work !  What we do know, and has been avidly adopted by the atheist crusade, is that they cannot all be right, there being numerous contradictions between their reported properties. I agree with the atheists, on this, but because the flaws can be pointed out  in all these Gods, does not mean much, we know they are basically rationalizations of something that can't be explained by rationalizations,  which only means they are effectively non-existent for rational purposes, not that God is non-existent, but a rationally explicable one is.

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Mr Walker
3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Give P101 a break, stop wheeling out more Gods than a man can be expected to demolish in a fair day's work !  What we do know, and has been avidly adopted by the atheist crusade, is that they cannot all be right, there being numerous contradictions between their reported properties. I agree with the atheists, on this, but because the flaws can be pointed out  in all these Gods, does not mean much, we know they are basically rationalizations of something that can't be explained by rationalizations,  which only means they are effectively non-existent for rational purposes, not that God is non-existent, but a rationally explicable one is.

My point was that  he specifically claimed there were no other RECORDED gods.

So obviously untrue. 

You could spend a life time just studying the writings about the Egyptian gods  

greco roman gods are very well recorded and there are some records of Norse, meso american, and other gods.  Lots written about Chinese and Japanese god forms. 

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Habitat
9 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

My point was that  he specifically claimed there were no other RECORDED gods.

So obviously untrue. 

You could spend a life time just studying the writings about the Egyptian gods  

greco roman gods are very well recorded and there are some records of Norse, meso american, and other gods.  Lots written about Chinese and Japanese god forms. 

People will always fill in a blank, with something, anything being thought better than nothing.

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Sherapy
30 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

No silly I already knew these things from my reading and education I only googled them to prove my point to YOU seeing as you don't believe it when i just tell you anything 

You wanted to argue facts with me. That is NEVER a smart thing to do 

There is no bias in this.  The statistics and difference in laws and attitudes  are clear and the opinion of the GLBT etc writer was very clear,  

Dont you DARE attribute either bias or prejudice to me.

Did you or did you not read my post and sources?

I actually pointed out that, in general, federal law is supportive of gay rights; and tax falls under federal law 

While federal legislation (so far)  is supportive of gays, state legislation varies a lot and it is often state legislation which affects such things as housing. If you were correct, your own state of California would not need to refuse to subsidise govt travel to states which are NOT supportive of the rights of gays . 

So i shouldnt believe a gay writer, I shouldn't believe gallup poll results, and i shouldn't believe that  the actual laws of states affect gay people adversely but i should believe YOU ???? 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/02/19/united-states-state-laws-threaten-lgbt-equality

 

United States: State Laws Threaten LGBT Equality

(New York, February 19, 2018) – The rash of new “religious exemption” laws passed by state legislatures around the United States represent a thinly-veiled assault against the rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. In the absence of robust nondiscrimination protections, these laws function as a license to discriminate rather than a good faith attempt to protect religious liberty and should be repealed.

The 41-page report, “‘All We Want is Equality’: Religious Exemptions and Discrimination against LGBT People in the United States,” documents how recent laws carve out space to discriminate against LGBT people in adoption and foster care, health care, and access to some goods and services. These laws fail to balance moral and religious objections to LGBT relationships and identities with the rights of LGBT people themselves, Human Rights Watch found. The findings illustrate that these exemptions encourage discriminatory refusals, discourage LGBT people from seeking out services, and harm people’s dignity.

The majority of the interviews took place in three states. In Mississippi, state law permits a wide array of individuals, businesses, and service providers to discriminate based on their religious or moral objections to same-sex marriage, extramarital sex, and the recognition of transgender identity. In Tennessee, a recent state law permits mental health counselors to turn away clients based on their religious beliefs. And in Michigan, adoption and foster care agencies that receive support from the state are explicitly empowered to refuse to place children with LGBT parents on account of the agencies’ own moral or religious objections. Alabama, North Dakota, South Dakota, Texas, and Virginia also have adoption and foster care exemptions in place.

Currently, only 19 states and the District of Columbia explicitly prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity in employment, housing, and public accommodations. Another three states offer partial protections; New Hampshire and Wisconsin prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation but not gender identity, and Utah prohibits discrimination in employment and housing but not public accommodations. The other 28 states lack statutory provisions that explicitly prohibit discrimination against LGBT people.

 

 

and while it is a bit old, this article is still informative

 

 https://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2012/may/08/gay-rights-united-states

I would not believe or consider your opinion about the US as valid. 

Things have changed significantly since 2012.

Find someone else to rant to. 

I am moving on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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psyche101
2 hours ago, Habitat said:

We already know that people's constructs of God, are human constructs. That is like saying grass is green because humans call things the colour of grass, green. But human concepts of God are not restricted to those promoted in religious texts.

How is that just not more shades of green? 

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Habitat
Just now, psyche101 said:

How is that just not more shades of green? 

Have you seen any organized religion promote the idea that nothing can meaningfully be said about God ? People typically want a narrative that expands on a subject, not one that shuts it down. Religions tell stories to people.

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psyche101
2 hours ago, Will Due said:

Yes. But words aren't God.

Yes they are. That's all God is. Words, an idea. That's why God only exists in human literature. There's nothing in the universe that supports God's existance. 

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psyche101
3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Have you seen any organized religion promote the idea that nothing can meaningfully be said about God ? People typically want a narrative that expands on a subject, not one that shuts it down. Religions tell stories to people.

Yes, stories. That's all they are. Nothing that actually matters in the real world. 

And some don't mind them shutting ideologies down. For some of us, the mundane truth is better to learn than the most elaborate fantasies. 

More shades of green. 

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psyche101
2 hours ago, Will Due said:

You can worship words.

But that doesn't necessarily mean you'll be worshipping God.

You don't know that at all. That's a personal view that only applies to you. Many have very full lives satisfied with words being as close to their God as they will ever get. You deny religious teachings based on your interpretation of the UB so you're not any different even though you think you are. That's just ego. 

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Habitat
7 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Yes, stories. That's all they are. Nothing that actually matters in the real world. 

And some don't mind them shutting ideologies down. For some of us, the mundane truth is better to learn than the most elaborate fantasies. 

More shades of green. 

You seem to confuse religion, particularly organized religion, with God. Better not to.

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Sherapy
8 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

You don't know that at all. That's a personal view that only applies to you. Many have very full lives satisfied with words being as close to their God as they will ever get. You deny religious teachings based on your interpretation of the UB so you're not any different even though you think you are. That's just ego. 

Some don’t include god’s at all and are quite happy and enriched. The difference is there is no compulsion to constantly post about it. 

How are you doing? I am sure great!

 

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Unfortunately

I think the important thing to remember here is that humans have a distinct fear of the unknown. By naming and labeling things that we can't comprehend in realistic terms we are attempting to diffuse said fear. 

It's for that reason I personally believe that some "unknown forces" would be personified into deities & gods despite an absence of scripture.

They would have different names, different faces and different personas but the concept would still be the same. ("God of the gaps," as some like to call it. A blunt but accurate statement in my opinion.)

^_^.

 

(Not having a go at anyone, just my personal thoughts on the OP :))

Edited by Unfortunately
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DieChecker
4 hours ago, psyche101 said:

They are allegedly the words of God. 

They are the words of God, in the same way that a church is a place of God, and worshippers are people of God. Representative, but not "of" God.

2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Yes they are. That's all God is. Words, an idea. That's why God only exists in human literature. There's nothing in the universe that supports God's existance. 

Disagree. God is, in part, emotion, feelings and desires.  Much of how people interact with God is outside the Bible. The Bible is only one of several methods of interacting with God.

Edited by DieChecker

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and then
On 2/26/2019 at 7:05 PM, Mr Walker said:

The scriptures are just a selection of  descriptions of a god, and its desires for humanity, based on human encounters and faith.

So you discount or deny any veracity at all to prophecy?  Prophecy is literally the proof that non-believers continually insist that they need yet they deny it without investigation.  A great example is Ezekiel predicting a confederation of nations coming against Israel in the end times.  An Israel, BTW, that has returned to the land after their dispersion for their sin.  The nations are easily identifiable.  Turkey, Iran, a nation or people group referred to as "Gog of Magog" who dwell to the furthermost north of Israel and a few other nations that today all share the same religion - Islam.  Other nations are mentioned that protest the invasion but don't attempt to help Israel. Spoiler alert... 5/6 of all those invaders die on the mountains of Israel.

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Will do
6 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Yes they are. That's all God is. Words, an idea. That's why God only exists in human literature. There's nothing in the universe that supports God's existance. 

 

6 hours ago, psyche101 said:

You don't know that at all. That's a personal view that only applies to you. Many have very full lives satisfied with words being as close to their God as they will ever get. You deny religious teachings based on your interpretation of the UB so you're not any different even though you think you are. That's just ego. 

 

All of these words can be worshipped. 

 

 

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Mr Walker
7 hours ago, Sherapy said:

I would not believe or consider your opinion about the US as valid. 

Things have changed significantly since 2012.

Find someone else to rant to. 

I am moving on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol your standard response when you pick a fight and lose badly :) 

One of the sources i gave was from 2018 but i expect you didn't actually read the sources. The one i said was a bit old was from 2015  Yes federal  marriage laws has been improved in recent years  But it is not federal laws which are the problem 

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Mr Walker
4 hours ago, and then said:

So you discount or deny any veracity at all to prophecy?  Prophecy is literally the proof that non-believers continually insist that they need yet they deny it without investigation.  A great example is Ezekiel predicting a confederation of nations coming against Israel in the end times.  An Israel, BTW, that has returned to the land after their dispersion for their sin.  The nations are easily identifiable.  Turkey, Iran, a nation or people group referred to as "Gog of Magog" who dwell to the furthermost north of Israel and a few other nations that today all share the same religion - Islam.  Other nations are mentioned that protest the invasion but don't attempt to help Israel. Spoiler alert... 5/6 of all those invaders die on the mountains of Israel.

Prophecy is both too nuanced and too imprecise to be presented as argument. IMO

Plus the future is not fixed and god works with humans to alter one future to a better one   Not even god can know or predict the future with accuracy because iti s unknowable from  the present 

"god" has given me video accurate dreams of future events He has also steered me to safety from disasters and dangers along one timeline so i am a little ambivalent and not absolute on this,

I think god can provide images of many potential futures to use them to help people and to warn them of danger   

However biblical prophecy is very fraught and hindsight allows us to construct links which are not really there. 

Once the jews regained their homeland (which was always an historical imperative for them,) then suddenly many biblical prophecies appeared to be much more probable. 

 

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GoldenWolf
7 hours ago, and then said:

Prophecy is literally the proof that non-believers continually insist that they need yet they deny it without investigation.

There will be earthquakes, there will be wars.  This is common sense, not prophecy.

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DieChecker

Cats and dogs living together.... 

 

Edited by DieChecker
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