the13bats Posted February 27, 2019 #1 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Seems overdue since sandra mansi sadly lost her battle with cancer in 2018, but here i go. Most crypto fans have seen this image of the alleged lake Champlain creature, The story differs depending on where you read it but basically in 77 her and her fiance and kids pulled over for a picnic and she sees a weird eel like creature and takes a picture, but doesnt show it off right away, the negative was lost or destroyed as some version of the story suggest they burned it or buried it out of superstitions which i guess the print didnt share because then she showed it off to everyone, when asked where is the exact spot of the picture, she says she forgot or wont tell fearing someone will harm the creature. Some tests if course came back that it can only be a lake monster other tests showed she greatly exaggerated the size, theories range from eel, drift wood, fish, duck, and plesiosaur, What i enjoy about this no one can prove its what they claim it likely is but that far from proves it a living lake monster, its a lake version of a blobsquatch, yet no one has shown just what it is, im not sure what it shows but it doesnt seem alive to me but i cant say why i feel that way. What do you think it shows, and again lets be respectful of all opinions. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted February 27, 2019 #2 Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, the13bats said: What do you think it shows, and again lets be respectful of all opinions. Well call me Mulder because I want to believe. Im gonna say that was a real deal cryptid. I cant offer any supporting argument other than to say that the Mansi's seemed sincere and their story of the sighting rings true to me- She wasnt scared at all just trying to figure out what she was seeing until he freaked out and screamed for her to get the kids out of the water. There is some good discussion on the photo analysis here : The Measure of a Monster: Investigating the Champ Photo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderOTD Posted February 27, 2019 #3 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) Could be a swimmer, the neck and head would be the right arm extending out of the water at the height of their stroke, the black mass at the surface of the water would be the body of the swimmer. It could be anything, like you say, blobsquatch of the lach. Her back story is suspect to say the least, it makes no logical sense unless she were a schizophrenic. Why is the original source always miraculously disappeared or hidden or destroyed. Edited February 27, 2019 by EnderOTD 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted February 27, 2019 Author #4 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Quote Her back story is suspect to say the least, it makes no logical sense unless she were a schizophrenic Right, i cant help but judge these cases by everything i have on them, and she hurts this one a lot, Ive looked at at many times and didnt see anything except a thing in the water, When i watched interviews with her she gave me a vibe that she knew what it was when she took the pic it was prosaic then way later it took on the idea of being a lake monster. I need to go see if i can find if her fiance or kids ever said anything about it, i cant recall it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderOTD Posted February 27, 2019 #5 Share Posted February 27, 2019 The article farmer linked is a good read with several different stabs at determining size and distance. With wildly different results. One concluded a size range from 15-56 feet in length using assumed measurements, that’s one hell of a margin for error. It’s dodgy all around, no negatives, no other photos from the same reel, unable to give a location, and to top it off not a single object in the photograph to give frame of reference. Not much to go on really, besides faith, a story to tell the grand kids and an old photograph. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderOTD Posted February 27, 2019 #6 Share Posted February 27, 2019 There’s a photo on the coast2coast site that looks an awful lot like that object, though it’s just a piece of old drift wood sitting in the grass. I’ll try to find it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted February 27, 2019 Author #7 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) I like radford work, i had seen parts if that live on a documentary, Im still very hung up that at one point they are so superstitious they burn and bury the negative to then jump to showing the pic to the ahem. World, Ive caught large eels and Sirenidae, they dont jump like fish and the most i ever saw one do was stick its head out of the water just enough to gulp at the surface, so even if i go with the creature in mansi photo is 3 feet out of water it wouldnt stuck its neck up and out that far and hold it long enough for a Kodak moment, it cant. The weight would make the body sink, also eel types are dark on top lighter on the bottom the photo shows the opposite or wild contorting, Looking close at the pic, to our left the neck side and towards us there appears to me detritus on or just under the water, Edited February 27, 2019 by the13bats typos 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted February 27, 2019 #8 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, the13bats said: Looking close at the pic, to our left the neck side and towsrds us there appearsto me detritus on or just under the water, There definitely is. Which I think can be interpereted a couple of ways. If that were an inanimate object that was just set free from the grip of the bottom by a methane release then we would expect to see detritus. Conversely if it were a very large animal that had just surfaced from a relatively shallow location then we would expect the same as well. If you want to get really weird with it, perhaps thats actually the front appendage of the creature reaching forward and tinting the water? Edited February 27, 2019 by Farmer77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereologist Posted February 27, 2019 #9 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I was in Vermont when it was announced. I and all of my friends were very skeptical of someone with a great discovery that waited a year to reveal the photo, claimed to live there and would not or could reveal the location. We always thought it was a log in the water. It reminds me of one of the many large rivers running into Champlain and there are often logs in the water caught on sand bars. One of the odd tings about the photo was how profits were split from the sale of the rights to the photo. The money was split something like 8 different ways going to lawyers and exes and friends. I would not be surprised to learn there is an NDA preventing Sandra Mansi and others from revealing the true nature of the photo. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robotic Jew Posted February 27, 2019 #10 Share Posted February 27, 2019 There's a good documentary on this on Amazon Prime. I believe it's just called "Champ". My belief is that this is either a piece of driftwood or a deliberate hoax. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderOTD Posted February 28, 2019 #11 Share Posted February 28, 2019 10 hours ago, stereologist said: I was in Vermont when it was announced. I and all of my friends were very skeptical of someone with a great discovery that waited a year to reveal the photo, claimed to live there and would not or could reveal the location. We always thought it was a log in the water. It reminds me of one of the many large rivers running into Champlain and there are often logs in the water caught on sand bars. One of the odd tings about the photo was how profits were split from the sale of the rights to the photo. The money was split something like 8 different ways going to lawyers and exes and friends. I would not be surprised to learn there is an NDA preventing Sandra Mansi and others from revealing the true nature of the photo. Just enough time to shop around for buyers and take the highest bid. Got to pay off the Whistleblowers before they spill the beans I suppose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted February 28, 2019 Author #12 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I didnt know that about the photo profits, pretty much seals the deal for me, I kind if still believe the time delay was because it wasnt anything when they took the pic, if the time delay is even true. It became the lake monster later on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted February 28, 2019 #13 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) I wonder if this wasn't a predetermined hoax; maybe Mansi happened to photograph a suggestive piece of driftwood and then later decided to market it as a lake monster. A hoax of opportunity, if you will. Edited February 28, 2019 by Carnoferox 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted February 28, 2019 Author #14 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Yeah, there is a missing shady squirrelly piece we will likely never find.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereologist Posted February 28, 2019 #15 Share Posted February 28, 2019 There is quite a bit of fascinating information about Champ in this podcast https://www.skeptic.com/podcasts/monstertalk/13/03/06/ Quote THE SHORES OF THE LAKE were packed with strangers looking to catch a glimpse of the beast. A $50,000 reward was issued for its capture. Newspapers around the world carried the story of the strange creature that was said to lurk beneath these waters. Loch Ness? No—this is 1880s Vermont and the monster is alleged to be living in Lake Champlain. They go into all of the people splitting up the cash on the Sandra Mansi photo. Years ago I heard her give a talk about her experience on open access TV in Vermont. I admit I recall very little of what she stated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereologist Posted February 28, 2019 #16 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Across the lake in New York is Bulwagga Bay which has a bar conveniently overlooking the bay. It has been the scene of many sightings of champ. The bar may or may not have an impact on the sightings. Can't say. It has a sign that reads "Parking and Dancing" Seems to be a full service establishment. The funny part of the bay is that it is shallow, only a few feet deep in most places. Nearby is a model of Champ. One winter night two Vermonters thought it was fitter if Champ were on the Vermont side of the lake. They chained the model to their vehicle and drove for the bridge to Vermont. Apparently, this caught the eye of the toll keeper on the bridge. Vermont state police did confiscate the model which did not fare so well being dragged for miles. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted February 28, 2019 #17 Share Posted February 28, 2019 On 2/27/2019 at 12:32 AM, the13bats said: Seems overdue since sandra mansi sadly lost her battle with cancer in 2018, but here i go. Most crypto fans have seen this image of the alleged lake Champlain creature, The story differs depending on where you read it but basically in 77 her and her fiance and kids pulled over for a picnic and she sees a weird eel like creature and takes a picture, but doesnt show it off right away, the negative was lost or destroyed as some version of the story suggest they burned it or buried it out of superstitions which i guess the print didnt share because then she showed it off to everyone, when asked where is the exact spot of the picture, she says she forgot or wont tell fearing someone will harm the creature. Some tests if course came back that it can only be a lake monster other tests showed she greatly exaggerated the size, theories range from eel, drift wood, fish, duck, and plesiosaur, What i enjoy about this no one can prove its what they claim it likely is but that far from proves it a living lake monster, its a lake version of a blobsquatch, yet no one has shown just what it is, im not sure what it shows but it doesnt seem alive to me but i cant say why i feel that way. What do you think it shows, and again lets be respectful of all opinions. I’d be interested in hearing the eyewitness testimony of all involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted February 28, 2019 Author #18 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Me too george, seems the husband and kids dont say much, Stereo, http://tauny.org/subpages/84/97/19/james-earl-sprague-jr It wasnt much of a model... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted March 3, 2019 #19 Share Posted March 3, 2019 I've always thought "log" on this photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnicolette Posted March 3, 2019 #20 Share Posted March 3, 2019 (edited) Its an elephant. No question. They often look like nessy because when swimming thier head and trunk are all that shows. Before you tell me there aren't elephants around ake champlain, do we actually know that this photo is from there? Or that none have been brought there at any time? Here are a few examples of elephants swimming for those who havent seen it before: Edited March 3, 2019 by Nnicolette 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereologist Posted March 3, 2019 #21 Share Posted March 3, 2019 On 2/28/2019 at 5:25 PM, the13bats said: Me too george, seems the husband and kids dont say much, Stereo, http://tauny.org/subpages/84/97/19/james-earl-sprague-jr It wasnt much of a model... It was a basic model but a fun one. I saw it several times before it was critically injured. The model was in Port Henry which was originally founded to be a place to take iron ore from a mine in the mountains to NYC. The mine became important for its titanium. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted March 3, 2019 #22 Share Posted March 3, 2019 8 hours ago, Nnicolette said: Its an elephant. No question. They often look like nessy because when swimming thier head and trunk are all that shows. Before you tell me there aren't elephants around ake champlain, do we actually know that this photo is from there? Or that none have been brought there at any time? Here are a few examples of elephants swimming for those who havent seen it before: I imagine someone who lived nearby would have to locate the exact location based on the background hills, and then let us know how deep the water is there. Appears to be about 40 feet from shore, but that depends on the elevation of the photographer. If the photographer is up on a low cliff, then the object could be 100 feet, or 100 yards, from shore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted March 4, 2019 Author #23 Share Posted March 4, 2019 The problem is no one has ever proved where this mansi pic was taken, the alleged creature, it always had a familiar feel to me, and i hate to admit it, if i remove all claims of where the pic was taken it does look a lot like many elephant crossing pics..... perhaps mansi has a real big laugh on us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.E.Martin Posted March 4, 2019 #24 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Whale penis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereologist Posted March 5, 2019 #25 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I was listening to a pod cast which had the editor of the Skeptical Inquirer magazine talking about the importance of going back to original sources and talked about how he was one of the few that made the effort to view the original Sandra Mansi photograph. He was shown the photograph by Mansi's lawyer. It is stored in a bank vault. He was told that he was one of only a few people that had taken the time to view the original photograph. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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