Cat,Mongoose type animal

[the13bats]

5 hours ago, oldrover said:

Wrong. I hope I'm nothing if I'm not fair. There are old accounts of the thylacine hopping. There is also a reconstruction of the animal doing so over at the Thylacine Museum. 

However, I maintain that these descriptions are in the minority, and likely not from life. Probably they stem from the same misconceptions as the modern statements. As for the reconstruvtion, I don't find it convincing personally. But that is opinion. 

It's also worth noting that accounts do at times describe a bounding gait similar to what Nicolette has described above. So, fair play, there is some evidence for it. 

Isnt it safe to say within reason any creature with legs might hop, might not be their prime locomotion choice though, too bad we dont have more old videos of the real guys in the day....

[openozy]

After studying some pics I'm pretty sure the animal I spotted was a mongoose,some of which are quite leggy.Apparently they were released in oz up until 1942 to control rabbits and snakes.Up to 1000 were set free in areas of high rabbit numbers in NSW,one area is where I live now.I've never heard of this before so wasn't expecting to see one.I'll keep the trap set and see how I go.

[Tassie Dude]

1 hour ago, openozy said:

After studying some pics I'm pretty sure the animal I spotted was a mongoose,some of which are quite leggy.Apparently they were released in oz up until 1942 to control rabbits and snakes.Up to 1000 were set free in areas of high rabbit numbers in NSW,one area is where I live now.I've never heard of this before so wasn't expecting to see one.I'll keep the trap set and see how I go.

Wow amazing, I'm originally from the Blue Mountains and wasn't aware of the introduction of Mongoose out West; you learn something new everyday. 

Keep us updated if you happen to trap/photograph the animal.

[oldrover]

6 hours ago, Chookaburra said:

G'day @oldrover, a little off topic I know, however, as a person who currently resides in Tasmania I have a fair amount of interest in the Thylacine and its questionable ongoing existence. What are your thoughts on this picture of a purported Thylacine photographed in Western Australia in the 1980s? Obviously I cannot verify the validity of the photograph but I am interested in your thoughts. 

http://www.wherelightmeetsdark.com/index.php?module=wiki&page=CameronThylacine

My apologies for not being able to provide the individual photograph; I'm new to UM and can't seem to be able to upload photographs due to size constraints.

Cheers Jason.

Hi Jason, 

Don't worry about putting up the photis, I know the ones you mean. 

They're unusual. They're different from the type of thing that's normally seen. To me, they don't look like what you'd expect to see in a thylacine in certain ways, the colour is wrong, but that could just be the photo. The pattern is wrong, completely wrong. Yet the tail base looks like a male tiger as does the tail itself, in several ways. 

These photos were discussed recently, as in within the last couple of years,  and the consensus was fake. But I can't remember the drtails for certain. I'll have a go though. With the caveat that I've got a lousy memory and will get some of this wrong. Also I can't redall the sources for what I'm saying, so can't assess anymore their veracity. 

It's said Kevin Cameron had no idea about thylacines, so wouldn't have faked one. However, I read he was employed as a tracker to invedtigate reports of a mysterious dog like animal. So, yes he did. 

You know what I mean when I say that I got the impression that Cameron's background was a factor, in that it seemed to me it was doubted in some quarters, consciously or otherwise, whether he was creative enough to have hoaxed it. You know what I mean. And that he was illiterate, so there's no way he could have known much about the tiger. Again, I think some assumptions were made. Again, you know what I mean, and that it's nonsense. I think Cameron was as sharp as anyone else. 

Then there was the endorsement of the images, now I read that while yes they were endorsed by whoever ( can't recall who it was) prior to the publication of the New Sciemtist article. Shortly before the article's publication however the expert concerned actually met Cameron, and got cold feet based on the meeting.I think he described him as agressive, overbearing sort of fella.

Then there's the question of the photos themselves and that the shadows indicate they were taken over a period of hours,  contradicting Cameton's a count, and frankly any sort of reasonable narrative. Truth is they just look like shadows to me, I've no idea what they're on about so can't add anything there. But as soin as yet another element of the backstory involving cover ups and the like get proposed, I just quit. 

Bottom line, my opinion, they're hoax photos, but very imaginative and well done. Can I be certain, no, would I bet my car keys on it? All day long. 

Two other things. Which part if Tasmania are you in, and secondly, the greatest thylacine hoax of all time is also at that link, the Adamsfield feet. That one took in many more people than will ever be admitted. The ba kstory at WLMD isn't correct in seversl detsiks as I recall, but unfortunately for readons of promise of discretion I can't add anymore to that one. 

 

 

[oldrover]

Also, I think the location may have influenced things. Western Australia was the site of the discovery of the famous Nullarbor tiger, in 1966. Now known to be about 2.5 ky old. Back then though as far as I'm aware it might not have been so certain. So, it might have clouded the professional's opinion, and been an inspiration to Cameron. 

[oldrover]

6 hours ago, the13bats said:

Isnt it safe to say within reason any creature with legs might hop, might not be their prime locomotion choice though, too bad we dont have more old videos of the real guys in the day....

Yes, I think that's quite right. In fact I think that's it exactly. And yes it certainky is. We know there were many more taken, but where they are now.....

Edited March 4, 2019 by oldrover

[oldrover]

4 hours ago, openozy said:

After studying some pics I'm pretty sure the animal I spotted was a mongoose,some of which are quite leggy.Apparently they were released in oz up until 1942 to control rabbits and snakes.Up to 1000 were set free in areas of high rabbit numbers in NSW,one area is where I live now.I've never heard of this before so wasn't expecting to see one.I'll keep the trap set and see how I go.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263005440_The_mongoose_in_Australia_Failed_introduction_of_a_biological_control_agent

I had no idea about this. Jesus wept! 

[openozy]

5 minutes ago, oldrover said:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263005440_The_mongoose_in_Australia_Failed_introduction_of_a_biological_control_agent

I had no idea about this. Jesus wept! 

They were a bit more successful than they thought, 80 odd years later.Its a wonder any native fauna is left with our bio control ideas.I've never heard of them reported in oz off hunters or farmers.We live near ranges that go right back to the Blue Mountains.

[openozy]

3 hours ago, Chookaburra said:

Wow amazing, I'm originally from the Blue Mountains and wasn't aware of the introduction of Mongoose out West; you learn something new everyday. 

Keep us updated if you happen to trap/photograph the animal.

I lived in the Blue Mountains for about ten years.You wonder what else they released here.

[Tassie Dude]

9 hours ago, oldrover said:

Also, I think the location may have influenced things. Western Australia was the site of the discovery of the famous Nullarbor tiger, in 1966. Now known to be about 2.5 ky old. Back then though as far as I'm aware it might not have been so certain. So, it might have clouded the professional's opinion, and been an inspiration to Cameron. 

G'day @oldrover, thank you for your detailed response regarding the "Cameron photograph(s)". Unfortunately I've never been able to locate and view the entire series of photographs that are said to have been taken; apparently there is a total of five. I have to say I agree with your take on the validity of the picture presented on WLMD in that the background story clouds the waters of what is fact and what is fiction. 

As for where I live in TAS, I'm located in Dunorlan in the vicinity of the Gog Range in the North of the State; on speaking with locals and referencing the Thylacine Bounty Log, this area was known to maintain a fairly abundant population of Thylacines in the day. 

One thing I will add is that there is an overwhelming belief or trend that Tasmanians are against admitting to, or reporting sightings; I can surely attest to this. I've spoken with a lot of older forestry workers who have claimed to see Thylacines but are hesitant to say anything about it due to fear of ridicule or outside influence; there is a definite stigma attached. The majority of born and bred Tasmanians are very guarded in their thinking about TAS. In one instance, an old forestry logger I spoke with claimed to see a Thylacine as recently as last year but flat out refuses to provide any further information to me as a "blown in from the Mainland" or anyone else. I guess anything like the story of the Thylacine provides the perfect template for conspiracy theories and a hush hush mentality clothed in Chinese whispers.

Once again, thanks for your thoughts on the WLMD photographs.

Good luck with the paper your writing.

Cheers Jason.

 

[travelnjones]

Savannah Cat?

[Tassie Dude]

7 hours ago, openozy said:

I lived in the Blue Mountains for about ten years.You wonder what else they released here.

Hahaha yes, you never know. Don't forget about the "Panther".

[openozy]

5 minutes ago, travelnjones said:

Savannah Cat?

I'm pretty sure it was a mongoose now,not a cat.I was expecting it to be a cat,didn't think mongoose were in oz so at first they weren't on the list.Shows how animals can be misidentified if not expecting them.

[openozy]

I have had chickens go missing from time to time with no fox smell around the pens so wondering if this could be the culprit,but could be a number of different animals.

[travelnjones]

Well if cartoons taught me anything just get a cobra, the mongoose will kill it before the chicken.

[openozy]

2 hours ago, travelnjones said:

Well if cartoons taught me anything just get a cobra, the mongoose will kill it before the chicken.

I'll guarantee it wouldn't look at a snake if there's chicken for dinner.

[Night Walker]

Openezy - thanks for this thread. Had a read through and there is good commentary all the way through. I don't think I can add anything other than I, too, was unaware that mongooses were released here in Oz but you can read all about it in the archives - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=mongoose&l-category=Article&sortby=

Introduced to control rabbits, mongooses were thought to have died out - a combination of unsuitable environment and after being specifically targeted by rabbit shooters/trappers to protect their lucrative trade at the time...

Can't find anything about modern mongoose sightings. One was caught in Innisfail and put on display in 1950 but it is referred to as a "so-called mongoose". No pictures. No description... https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/212226228?searchTerm=mongoose&searchLimits=sortby=dateDesc|||l-category=Article|||l-decade=195

You mentioned the distinctive gait - have you watched any videos of a running mongoose for comparison?

Thought about getting any game cameras?

Mongoose is certainly one species we don't need breeding here...

A recent article: The mongoose in Australia: failed introduction of a biological control agent = https://www.researchgate.net/profile/David_Peacock4/publication/263005440_The_mongoose_in_Australia_Failed_introduction_of_a_biological_control_agent/links/54dc37d60cf2a7769d95597c.pdf

 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Night Walker

[Night Walker]

On 2/28/2019 at 3:53 PM, openozy said:

I went out a couple of nights ago to feed my cats,three of them had an animal bailed up next to my shed.It broke away when I was close to it.I have a fair knowledge of wildlife here including feral animals.The animal was the size of an average house cat,short fur,wild rabbit coloured,it looked like a cat but had a long muzzle,like a mongoose but not.We live near remote wilderness.Have looked online at a lot of animals but none match.Any ideas of what this was.The only animal it closely resembled is a fossa,but they are rare in their own country so wouldn't think it was that.

What time did this occur?

Have you contacted anyone (like bio-security) about it?

[openozy]

58 minutes ago, Night Walker said:

What time did this occur?

Have you contacted anyone (like bio-security) about it?

Cant remember what time,it was dark,probably around 9pm.No, around here they are more concerned about things killing sheep than the environment.I have hunting terriers and whippets that are usually out at night,so my chickens are pretty safe.I read up about them being released when I suspected it was a mongoose,but didn't expect it to be one at the time.I cant see why they wouldn't survive here with heaps of bunnies and native wildlife to eat.

[Night Walker]

North of the border, you'd be required to contact Biosecurity Queensland as quickly as possible. Mongoose have been devastating to the ecosystem in places they've been introduced and populated. Why not contact the equivalent body in NSW to be safe? Maybe someone has a file there...

One major down-side to the mongoose hypothesis in your case, though, is that they are diurnal but I don't know they're habits well enough to comment further...

I've sent an email to a wildlife expert with an interest in cryptozoology that I know and will get back to you with his thoughts...

Edited July 24, 2019 by Night Walker

[openozy]

31 minutes ago, Night Walker said:

North of the border, you'd be required to contact Biosecurity Queensland as quickly as possible. Mongoose have been devastating to the ecosystem in places they've been introduced and populated. Why not contact the equivalent body in NSW to be safe? Maybe someone has a file there...

One major down-side to the mongoose hypothesis in your case, though, is that they are diurnal but I don't know they're habits well enough to comment further...

I've sent an email to a wildlife expert with an interest in cryptozoology that I know and will get back to you with his thoughts...

Thanks for that,but I think it was a government sector that released them.With the cane toads heading south they are probably doomed anyway.

[Night Walker]

37 minutes ago, openozy said:

Thanks for that,but I think it was a government sector that released them.With the cane toads heading south they are probably doomed anyway.

That was in the 19th century. In the 21st century the government need to be aware of things like this. Mongoose are a species which represent a MAJOR bio-security to this country. Even in the 1950s when people were writing to papers saying mongoose are fine and certainly better than having to deal with snakes the CSIRO were like "definitely NO!". It's horrifying to read how mongoose were introduced to places like Jamaica and Fiji to control rats only for the rats to realize they should only forage at night as the mongoose began systematically decimating local fauna during the day...

It's better to be safe than sorry. I encourage you to at least report it to the appropriate authority as a potential Indian mongoose sighting...

Unless, you are now somewhat less than 99% certain it was a mongoose. You initially described it as "like a mongoose but not"... 

Edited July 24, 2019 by Night Walker

[Night Walker]

While the Indian mongoose is currently absent from Queensland (and Australia), this
risk assessment presents evidence that it has the potential to become a major pest in
Queensland, if it was ever released. The species has five important attributes that are
considered to confer pest potential: (1) it is well adapted to climates experienced in
Queensland (“climate-match”): (2) it is well adapted to a range of natural habitats that
exist in Queensland: (3) it has a very broad, opportunistic diet: (4) it has an extensive
natural distribution: and (5) it has a proven track-record of forming naturalised (pest)
populations elsewhere, with serious consequences for local wildlife populations.
Climate-match, a broad natural range, and a history as a pest elsewhere are perhaps
the most reliable predictors of invasion success.
The Indian mongoose is listed among 100 of the “World’s Worst” invaders by the IUCN.
While the risk of import and release is considered to be low, the potential impact of
naturalisation is considered to be substantial.

...

A numerical risk assessment for H. javanicus considers the species to pose a ‘serious 
establishment risk’ to Australia and an ‘extreme pest threat’ to Australia.

Invasive animal risk assessment: Indian mongoose. 

___

Legal requirements

Indian mongoose is a prohibited invasive animal under the Biosecurity Act 2014.
It must not be kept, moved, fed, given away or sold without a permit.
The Act requires that all sightings to be reported to Biosecurity Queensland within 24 hours.
By law, everyone has a general biosecurity obligation (GBO) to take all reasonable and practical steps to minimise the risk of Indian mongoose escaping until they receive advice from an authorised officer.

https://www.business.qld.gov.au/industries/farms-fishing-forestry/agriculture/land-management/health-pests-weeds-diseases/pests/invasive-animals/prohibited/indian-mongoose

Edited July 24, 2019 by Night Walker
addition

[Golden Duck]

On 02/03/2019 at 8:23 AM, onlookerofmayhem said:

Of course you can't legally import anything. That's what the black market is for. It would be highly illegal depending on which plant/animal/drug etc., was being imported/exported.

From an old article :

https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/wildlife/2011/08/australias-wildlife-blackmarket-trade/

"In the 2009-10 financial year, customs seized plants or animals and their products on 4014 occasions – but whether that represents a small or large fraction of all smuggling attempts is unknown."

While I have no idea what the OP may have seen, it's well within reason that it may have been non-native.

If you have enough money, you can get pretty much anything in the world you want.

The black market is still subject to conventional market factors.  You have consider cost, or benefit, and make a decision concerning financial viability.

Smuggling a civet to produce home-grown kopi luwak doesn't sound like it's worth the risk.  Johnny Depp's dogs came in by chartered flight; so, I guess you'd have to do the same for a civet.

Even if you managed to set up the production, there's still the risk of being discovered from the consumer end of the supply chain.  Local government EPA is responsible for the licensing of food vendors. A standard compliance audit would likely highlight discrepancies.  You could facing trade practices, customs and quarantine breaches.

Every customs declaration has details record down to the invoice line level; and, Quarantine has always taken a keen interest in producers of imported food.

It's just cheaper to import the kopi luwak legally.

[openozy]

1 hour ago, Night Walker said:

That was in the 19th century. In the 21st century the government need to be aware of things like this. Mongoose are a species which represent a MAJOR bio-security to this country. Even in the 1950s when people were writing to papers saying mongoose are fine and certainly better than having to deal with snakes the CSIRO were like "definitely NO!". It's horrifying to read how mongoose were introduced to places like Jamaica and Fiji to control rats only for the rats to realize they should only forage at night as the mongoose began systematically decimating local fauna during the day...

It's better to be safe than sorry. I encourage you to at least report it to the appropriate authority as a potential Indian mongoose sighting...

Unless, you are now somewhat less than 99% certain it was a mongoose. You initially described it as "like a mongoose but not"... 

It's really low on my agenda, even though controlling introduced animals is part of my job.These animals have obviously found a niche in our eco system.I'm the only person I've heard that has sited them.Feral cats and foxes I see almost every day and nothing is being done to control them,except shooting on sight.You cant really go on Queensland's take on things,such as ferrets being banned(which I also use to control rabbits) and cannot survive in wild populations as they contract footrot and die if wild.I really feel government agencies have little idea of the reality of wildlife,they should get their heads out of books and experience the reality of the Aussie bush.All in all a bunch of over educated nerds.