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ant0n

Apatheism: your opinion/facts?

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ant0n

Hello everyone,

What do you think about 'apatheism'? Are you an apatheist?

I discovered that concept a few weeks ago and it fits me almost completely well.

https://www.thoughtco.com/definition-of-apatheist-247851

The word apatheism is a portmanteau of apathy and theism/atheism. Apatheism is apathy towards the belief and the disbelief in gods. An apatheist simply doesn't care whether there is or isn't any god. (they simply don't need that belief/disbelief in their own representation of All.)

Apatheism can be described as the position that neither the existence nor the non-existence of gods is important, thus neither belief in nor denial of gods is important. For this reason, apatheism overlaps with pragmatic atheism and practical atheism.

 Apatheism is regarded as an attitude towards a type of belief, not a belief or disbelief itself.

An apatheist likely would disagree with anti-religious thinkers who seek to remove religious belief and practice. The apatheist attitude would be for freedom of religious belief and practice so long as there are no restrictions on being a non-believer. It is a position of tolerance without promoting religious belief or opposing it.

Apatheism sometimes goes a bit further and asserts that even if it were proven conclusively and without a doubt that some sort of god existed, then the person's general behavior and life would not change, For that person, the existence of gods is not only irrelevant now but would be irrelevant in the future no matter what sort of evidence or proof is present.

Atheists and theists might look at professed apatheists as being lazy thinkers who don't want to do the intellectual, philosophical, and emotional analysis to determine what they truly believe. Committed atheists and believers might be frustrated in any attempt to sway the professed apatheist to their side.

In social situations where the discussion of religion is frowned upon, the apatheist is perfectly happy and welcomed. An apatheist might attend religious ceremonies and appreciate the beauty of the music, religious art, and rituals without being bothered to take a position on whether the god or gods being worshiped exist.

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Daughter of the Nine Moons

There are a few of us here on UM that I know of who identify as such. For myself it has been an ongoing evolution for about the last 15 years

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Not Your Huckleberry
8 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

There are some people, myself included, for whom religion simply has no place in our day to day lives in any capacity whatsoever. I don't think about it, it doesn't come up, it just has no place. Religion/spirituality are a waste of time to me.

Apatheist, atheist, I really don't care what label is ascribed. I don't just not believe in any gods, but I also don't care if i'm wrong. Not going to change my attitude toward any god/goddess. My life goes on as always.

 

Yep, this. And the existence or non-existence of a god will not change my behavior, either. 

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ant0n
51 minutes ago, Not Your Huckleberry said:

Yep, this. And the existence or non-existence of a god will not change my behavior, either. 

Alright. If there were an actual evidence for the existence of god:

- would you acknowledge the existence of that god?

- would you deny it?

- do you think there cannot be such an evidence anyway?

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sci-nerd
51 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

There are some people, myself included, for whom religion simply has no place in our day to day lives in any capacity whatsoever. I don't think about it, it doesn't come up, it just has no place. Religion/spirituality are a waste of time to me.

Apatheist, atheist, I really don't care what label is ascribed. I don't just not believe in any gods, but I also don't care if i'm wrong. Not going to change my attitude toward any god/goddess. My life goes on as always.

I'm only apathetic towards God. Even if he existed I wouldn't care, worry or spend a second on him.
I have no problem going to church, listening to religious music, or even watching a movie with a religious plot.
But believers make me sad and a bit annoyed. How can they ignore all that we've learned, and indulge that ancient BS?
Many of them has edited God to better fit science and modern life, which I find pathetic. They are making bad excuses to keep a dead God alive.
If you disprove facts from the Bible, they will just claim that God is something else.
I wish believers could see the world with my eyes for just 5 minutes, then the world would truly be saved. Saved from folly.

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ant0n
3 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

I'm only apathetic towards God. Even if he existed I wouldn't care, worry or spend a second on him.

What 'god' are we actually talking about? About some kind of "minor deity" or about the supposedly almighty, omniscient and omnipotent "god"?

If we imagine the latter does exist, is it even possible to turn our back to it, just like that?

Or do you actually believe there just can't be any evidence of the existence of that "god" anyway? (so there's nothing to fear as far as "gods" are concerned)

 

I used to play the pipe organ in churches, to play religious stuff, to sing along. I could play something about "God" or "Jesus" but I felt nothing "in my heart", except the music itself.

I still enjoy that instrument, that music to some extent.

I've had one bit project in mind for years: if I won dozens of million US$, I'd conceptualize and have made one of the greatest pipe organs in a neutral (non-religious) building.

 

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jamesjr191
18 minutes ago, anton00 said:

Alright. If there were an actual evidence for the existence of god:

- would you acknowledge the existence of that god?

- would you deny it?

- do you think there cannot be such an evidence anyway?

Of course, if i considered it worthy evidence i couldn't deny it. I do seriously doubt anyone will produce said evidence though. If a Gods existence became apparent and was revealed as the truth i feel i'd still go on doing it my way in life.

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danydandan
1 hour ago, anton00 said:

Hello everyone,

What do you think about 'apatheism'? Are you an apatheist?

I discovered that concept a few weeks ago and it fits me almost completely well.

https://www.thoughtco.com/definition-of-apatheist-247851

The word apatheism is a portmanteau of apathy and theism/atheism. Apatheism is apathy towards the belief and the disbelief in gods. An apatheist simply doesn't care whether there is or isn't any god. (they simply don't need that belief/disbelief in their own representation of All.)

Apatheism can be described as the position that neither the existence nor the non-existence of gods is important, thus neither belief in nor denial of gods is important. For this reason, apatheism overlaps with pragmatic atheism and practical atheism.

 Apatheism is regarded as an attitude towards a type of belief, not a belief or disbelief itself.

An apatheist likely would disagree with anti-religious thinkers who seek to remove religious belief and practice. The apatheist attitude would be for freedom of religious belief and practice so long as there are no restrictions on being a non-believer. It is a position of tolerance without promoting religious belief or opposing it.

Apatheism sometimes goes a bit further and asserts that even if it were proven conclusively and without a doubt that some sort of god existed, then the person's general behavior and life would not change, For that person, the existence of gods is not only irrelevant now but would be irrelevant in the future no matter what sort of evidence or proof is present.

Atheists and theists might look at professed apatheists as being lazy thinkers who don't want to do the intellectual, philosophical, and emotional analysis to determine what they truly believe. Committed atheists and believers might be frustrated in any attempt to sway the professed apatheist to their side.

In social situations where the discussion of religion is frowned upon, the apatheist is perfectly happy and welcomed. An apatheist might attend religious ceremonies and appreciate the beauty of the music, religious art, and rituals without being bothered to take a position on whether the god or gods being worshiped exist.

Isn't it basically agnosticism, kinda!

But this going to break down quickly into a God exists vs God doesn't exist discussion and your initial OP will be forgotten about. 

 

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Tatetopa
7 minutes ago, anton00 said:

Alright. If there were an actual evidence for the existence of god:

- would you acknowledge the existence of that god?

- would you deny it?

- do you think there cannot be such an evidence anyway?

If there is evidence, I can accept it.  There is no gain from denial.  However, true or not, as many have said, it does not become a part of daily life.  I believe evidence of quantum tunneling  and the Higgs boson, yet neither affects me on a conscious level  in most of my daily routine.  Fun to read about though.  If there is an ultimate supreme being it should have a lot more to occupy its time than worrying about my opinion. 

I am an autonomous being.  I can feel friendship, love, and gratitude.  I will live, and I will die.  How I make life matter is only up to me.  I have a hard time understanding  the concept of worship and supplication or ascribing to another being  the wellspring of my joy.

 

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sci-nerd
1 minute ago, anton00 said:

What 'god' are we actually talking about? About some kind of "minor deity" or about the supposedly almighty, omniscient and omnipotent "god"?

If we imagine the latter does exist, is it even possible to turn our back to it, just like that?

Or do you actually believe there just can't be any evidence of the existence of that "god" anyway? (so there's nothing to fear as far as "gods" are concerned)

As far as my understanding of nature goes, our universe is most probably not the only one, and does not have a divine creator. It is just impossible.
The universe above ours, however, may have it. But we will never know, or have a reason to care. If there is a God in the above universe, he does not consider us real.

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Dumbledore the Awesome

I was going to give my opinions, but I couldn't be bothered. :( 

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ant0n
2 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Isn't it basically agnosticism, kinda!

But this going to break down quickly into a God exists vs God doesn't exist discussion and your initial OP will be forgotten about. 

 

According to the philosopher William L. Rowe, "agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist".

I associate agnosticism with carefulness and apatheism with carelessness.

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danydandan
2 minutes ago, anton00 said:

According to the philosopher William L. Rowe, "agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist".

I associate agnosticism with carefulness and apatheism with carelessness.

Forget what Rowe says.

You say it better yourself, I could not find the words to say it but you did so eloquently. 

I'm an odd ball, I'm an agnostic-theist it's the best way I can describe how I feel about it. 

Welcome to UM by the by. 

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sci-nerd
17 minutes ago, danydandan said:

I'm an odd ball, I'm an agnostic-theist it's the best way I can describe how I feel about it.

Doesn't agnosticism say that a false malevolent god rules this universe (or tries to)?

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Jodie.Lynne
2 hours ago, anton00 said:

Apatheism can be described as the position that neither the existence nor the non-existence of gods is important, thus neither belief in nor denial of gods is important.

I suppose, that label would fit me, in regards to gods themselves.

However, I would place myself firmly in the anti-theist camp when it comes to the followers of gods.

Personally, I think they do more harm than all the gods combined.

 

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danydandan
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

Doesn't agnosticism say that a false malevolent god rules this universe (or tries to)?

Nope.

"It simply means that a man shall not say he knows or believes that which he has no scientific grounds for professing to know or believe." From the guy who coined the term Someone Huxley. 

Edited: Henry Huxley I believe?

Edited by danydandan
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ant0n
Just now, danydandan said:

Forget what Rowe says.

You say it better yourself, I could not find the words to say it but you did so eloquently. 

I'm an odd ball, I'm an agnostic-theist it's the best way I can describe how I feel about it. 

Welcome to UM by the by. 

 

Thanks for welcoming me, DanyDandan.

I like this place and the members I interact with.

 

I consider myself lucky: most of the time in my life, I don't feel any need to identify my labels/categories based on my spiritual/religious beliefs/disbeliefs. This makes me feel serenely great. But there are times I need to identify myself with labels/categories, because of some social pressure. But as an oddball, I can't easily find those labels/categories I fit in in the spiritual/religious beliefs/disbeliefs field. Should I label myself "miscellaneous"?

I confess I stick to my "Earthling label, at least.

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Jodie.Lynne
2 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Edited: Henry Huxley I believe?

Not Aldus?

Just wondering.

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ant0n
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Nope.

"It simply means that a man shall not say he knows or believes that which he has no scientific grounds for professing to know or believe." From the guy who coined the term Someone Huxley. 

Edited: Henry Huxley I believe?

Yes: "The English biologist Thomas Henry Huxley coined the word agnostic in 1869, and said "It simply means (...)"".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

Edited by anton00
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Jodie.Lynne
1 hour ago, anton00 said:

Alright. If there were an actual evidence for the existence of god:

- would you acknowledge the existence of that god?

- would you deny it?

- do you think there cannot be such an evidence anyway?

As I have said elsewhere, yes I would acknowledge it.

That doesn't mean I would worship it.

 

So far, evidence for the existence of ANY god, is purely subjective.

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danydandan
7 minutes ago, anton00 said:

 

Thanks for welcoming me, DanyDandan.

I like this place and the members I interact with.

 

I consider myself lucky: most of the time in my life, I don't feel any need to identify my labels/categories based on my spiritual/religious beliefs/disbeliefs. This makes me feel serenely great. But there are times I need to identify myself with labels/categories, because of some social pressure. But as an oddball, I can't easily find those labels/categories I fit in in the spiritual/religious beliefs/disbeliefs field. Should I label myself "miscellaneous"?

I confess I stick to my "Earthling label, at least.

One word labels are never enough to describe how one feels.

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Jodie.Lynne
11 minutes ago, anton00 said:

hanks for welcoming me, DanyDandan.

Welcome to the madhouse!

I hope you have a thick skin, because the folks here can and do ask some tough questions.

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ant0n
1 minute ago, danydandan said:

One word labels are never enough to describe how one feels.

I've been into that process of identifying my own keywords for a few months.

I think 'keyword' is more appropriate. The kind of keywords that quickly helps relate to other kinds of people.

A few words ago, an English friend online showed us a video of his own mental representation of the Universe (i.e. of everything). He asked us to define him.

That was an interesting task. He was torn between spirituality and atheism. I googled an alternative and that was how I discovered the concept of 'apatheist'.

It was one of the keyword I found for him.

He was spiritual. And he was into modal realism:

Modal realism is the view propounded by David Kellogg Lewis that all possible worlds are real in the same way as is the actual world: they are "of a kind with this world of ours."[1] It is based on the following tenets: possible worlds exist; possible worlds are not different in kind from the actual world; possible worlds are irreducible entities; the term actual in actual world is indexical, i.e. any subject can declare their world to be the actual one, much as they label the place they are "here" and the time they are "now".

 

So the keywords I fo

modal realist.

 

That encouraged me to do the same. I wrote then published my own mental representation of the Universe. I find these keywords for me:

apatheistic indirect realist.

Indirect realism is broadly equivalent to the accepted view of perception in natural science that states that we do not and cannot perceive the external world as it really is but know only our ideas and interpretations of the way the world is.

Indirect realism inspires me, despite its flaws. I'm not quite sure about those keywords of mine but that's better than nothing.

And yes, the whole "label" is not limited to one word.

There are different classifications, like Myers-Briggs but I don't really resonate so far.

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ant0n
15 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Welcome to the madhouse!

I hope you have a thick skin, because the folks here can and do ask some tough questions.

Thanks for welcoming me, Jodie.Lynne.

I've seen I could expect worthy contributions in these forums. So I expect being asked tough questions. Members can expect I ask tough questions too. I can be gullible at times but not always.

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