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anton00

Apatheism: your opinion/facts?

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and then
5 hours ago, Dejarma said:

a god or whatever appearing to me= this has never happened in the 60 years of existing on this planet-- why is that do you think?

Are you saying you would change your mind if a God appeared to you?  The reason I ask is that these threads typically are started by people who are closed minded about their beliefs as religious people are.  That's their right, no harm, no foul, it just seems a little hypocritical to point out intransigence on one side only.  A person who calmly states they'd never believe or care, even if they were given proof is an example of rejection without investigation.  That's the exact opposite of the scientific method, isn't it?

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danydandan
6 hours ago, Piney said:

It happens way too often with my people. Especially with all that Newage horse****. <_<

You should store all that horse*****, let dry out and use it for the fire. 

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danydandan
6 hours ago, Piney said:

If we were still allowed to follow Tribal Law I would be the one roasting Newage shaman on a spit while carving chunks off of them and throwing them to the camp dogs.

While they were still alive. :yes: 

Good God Piney,!!!

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anton00
8 hours ago, Aquila King said:

What evidence is there that there can't be such evidence? That's a self-defeating statement that's impossible to prove.

My question was:

"- do you think there cannot be such an evidence anyway?"

 

By asking that question, I wished to know how atheistic you would be. I wished to know what you thought.

I assumed that if you were an atheist, you would think/believe there merely wouldn't be any evidence of the existence of any god.

 

By asking that question to you, I also asked it to myself. And I think there's no such evidence of the existence of god(s). (This is a thought.) I'm wondering why I think so and I realize I don't give much importance to the concept of god(s). I sure give more importance to religions/spiritualities as I happen to interact with them through some people. Religions/spiritualities all seem 100% human to me.

 

I'm lucky I live in a religion/spirituality-free environment, most of the time. I do appreciate every second of it. At times, I explore religion/spirituality contexts. I can see labelled/categorised people there, which induces in me the need to wear a label/categorie as well. That's where the issue starts. The 'atheist' label looked like the most appropriate label for me but, at the same time, I felt internal discordance with atheists. For lack of any better label... Then I recently came across with the 'apatheist' label and I found it much more appropriate to me. However, this is just a label I wear in specific circumstances, i.e. while interacting with religiously/spiritually labelled/categorised people. Otherwise, I just go on with my life with no such label.

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Simbi Laveau

I'm a spiritual person. I do believe in various spiritual entities, that have different names, for different religious groups. 

Organized religion however, leaves me cold. 

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Simbi Laveau
18 hours ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

There are some people, myself included, for whom religion simply has no place in our day to day lives in any capacity whatsoever. I don't think about it, it doesn't come up, it just has no place. Religion/spirituality are a waste of time to me.

Apatheist, atheist, I really don't care what label is ascribed. I don't just not believe in any gods, but I also don't care if i'm wrong. Not going to change my attitude toward any god/goddess. My life goes on as always.

 

:P I think you need Jesus right about now. :rolleyes:

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Simbi Laveau
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, anton00 said:

What 'god' are we actually talking about? About some kind of "minor deity" or about the supposedly almighty, omniscient and omnipotent "god"?

If we imagine the latter does exist, is it even possible to turn our back to it, just like that?

Or do you actually believe there just can't be any evidence of the existence of that "god" anyway? (so there's nothing to fear as far as "gods" are concerned)

 

I used to play the pipe organ in churches, to play religious stuff, to sing along. I could play something about "God" or "Jesus" but I felt nothing "in my heart", except the music itself.

I still enjoy that instrument, that music to some extent.

I've had one bit project in mind for years: if I won dozens of million US$, I'd conceptualize and have made one of the greatest pipe organs in a neutral (non-religious) building.

 

apatheism is a word I've been seeing all over the place, as of late. 

Never heard of it until about a week ago? 

In various teachings, there is one God. Big all powerful thing, that no one is sure what it really is. 

This being has helpers, so to speak. Who, in turn, have helpers. 

This translates into things like, God and saints. 

Shiva and lesser hindu deities. 

Even all the way back to Osiris, and the lesser gods of Egypt. 

Where I come from, they are all just souls, of different levels of enlightenment. I believe there is absolutely something, to that train of thought, but that's me. 

Edited by Simbi Laveau

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anton00
28 minutes ago, Simbi Laveau said:

Where I come from, they are all just souls, of different levels of enlightenment. I believe there is absolutely something, to that train of thought, but that's me. 

Where do you come from, Simbi Laveau?

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Piney
35 minutes ago, Simbi Laveau said:

apatheism is a word I've been seeing all over the place, as of late. 

Never heard of it until about a week ago? 

In various teachings, there is one God. Big all powerful thing, that no one is sure what it really is. 

This being has helpers, so to speak. Who, in turn, have helpers. 

This translates into things like, God and saints. 

Shiva and lesser hindu deities. 

Even all the way back to Osiris, and the lesser gods of Egypt. 

Where I come from, they are all just souls, of different levels of enlightenment. I believe there is absolutely something, to that train of thought, but that's me. 

My grandmother, who was Indian River Nanticoke from Delaware practiced Coastal Algonquian Hoodoo and always had me give tobacco to the Cymbees when I was gathering freshwater clams and mussels or fishing. 

I don't believe in Spirits. Just the Spiritual essence in all things that is part of Kiitaanituu (Creation). "Maanituuk" is more like the Japanese "Kami" in Shinto then it is individual spirits. At one time my people personified Maanituuk, but having a Japanese stepfather I went a little more Shinto/Tendai with it. 

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Simbi Laveau
1 minute ago, Piney said:

My grandmother, who was Indian River Nanticoke from Delaware practiced Coastal Algonquian Hoodoo and always had me give tobacco to the Cymbees when I was gathering freshwater clams and mussels or fishing. 

I don't believe in Spirits. Just the Spiritual essence in all things that is part of Kiitaanituu (Creation). "Maanituuk" is more like the Japanese "Kami" in Shinto then it is individual spirits. At one time my people personified Maanituuk, but having a Japanese stepfather I went a little more Shinto/Tendai with it. 

I lived in Japan for years. They're super into spirits, of all kinds. Kami is not like spirits to them. 

I personally believe they exist. I've seen, what I feel, is proof, but we are all different in this respect. 

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Piney
1 minute ago, Simbi Laveau said:

I lived in Japan for years. They're super into spirits, of all kinds. Kami is not like spirits to them. 

 

No, it's the spiritual essence of things. Just like Maanituu. :yes:

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Simbi Laveau
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, anton00 said:

Where do you come from, Simbi Laveau?

I have shamanistic training. 

I'm versed in hoodoo/voodoo, afrocarribean religions, Tibetan and hindu teachings, and wicca. I was raised catholic. Turned my back on it at age 12. 

Wicca was my basic training. I'm initiatd in both gardnerian and Welsh traditions. I have no affinity for it however. 

I studied with a shaman of Palo mayombe for years. My high priestess was very much into hindu Tibetan and bon religions. I learned many things about it from her. I'm a follower of AMMA and the 17th Karmapa. 

Voodoo is a past life thing for me. If you believe in that kind of stuff. 

I tend to be much more "Buddhist" at this point in time. 

I use what feels right, for each situation. I adhere to only the spiritual aspects of it all. 

I do pray 

 

Edited by Simbi Laveau
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Piney
3 minutes ago, Simbi Laveau said:

I tend to be much more "Buddhist" at this point in time. 

:lol:

After my Kiimochknii (Shaman) training ( I'm a member of a old Algonquian "Medicine" family and started at 10), I studied under my stepfather's uncle who was a Sohei of the Byodo-In.

I'm now a Sohei "Keeper" or what you would call a Buddhist Warrior-Shaman. I was once a Mask Carver and "Sacred Object" maker and handler but I no longer do that because I left my tribe

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anton00
5 minutes ago, Simbi Laveau said:

I have shamanistic training. 

I'm versed in hoodoo/voodoo, afrocarribean religions, Tibetan and hindu eachings, and wicca. I was raised catholic. Turned my back on it at age 12. 

Wicca was my basic training. I'm initiatd in both gardnerian and Welsh traditions. I have no affinity for it however. 

I studied with a shaman of Palo mayombe for years. My high priestess was very much into hindu Tibetan and bon religions. I learned many things about it from her. I'm a follower of AMMA and the 17th Karmapa. 

Voodoo is a past life thing for me. If you believe in that kind of stuff. 

I tend to be much more "Buddhist" at this point in time. 

I use what feels right, for each situation. I adhere to only the spiritual aspects of it all. 

I do pray 

 

That respectfully looks to me like an interesting spiritual eclecticism.

Reincarnation (the Western way) has partially inspired me for years. I'm eclectic (as well), I focus on the parts that interest me. To me, that concept of reincarnation is an interesting tool leading me to helpful experiences (which don't necessarily have directly to do with reincarnation). I've had 3 "past-life regressions" so far, without any meaningful past-life memories. However, those sessions themselves had a positive impact in my life. I acknowledge the fact past-life regressions can heal the client (not in all cases though). Cf. Brain Weiss's "Through Time Into Healing". The healing part is what matters first to me regarding reincarnation. I'm not impressed by anyone's alleged incarnations unless they explain me how their remembering healed/fixed them in their present life.

 

Years ago, I found my own little "mantras". I've been using them for years, before falling into sleep. To me, recitating them activates my awareness of being guided and protected. I have no idea by "whom". I don't actually need to know that.. I'm not even into that kind of reasoning ("who"). I guess I protect and guide myself.

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Simbi Laveau
4 minutes ago, anton00 said:

That respectfully looks to me like an interesting spiritual eclecticism.

Reincarnation (the Western way) has partially inspired me for years. I'm eclectic (as well), I focus on the parts that interest me. To me, that concept of reincarnation is an interesting tool leading me to helpful experiences (which don't necessarily have directly to do with reincarnation). I've had 3 "past-life regressions" so far, without any meaningful past-life memories. However, those sessions themselves had a positive impact in my life. I acknowledge the fact past-life regressions can heal the client (not in all cases though). Cf. Brain Weiss's "Through Time Into Healing". The healing part is what matters first to me regarding reincarnation. I'm not impressed by anyone's alleged incarnations unless they explain me how their remembering healed/fixed them in their present life.

 

Years ago, I found my own little "mantras". I've been using them for years, before falling into sleep. To me, recitating them activates my awareness of being guided and protected. I have no idea by "whom". I don't actually need to know that.. I'm not even into that kind of reasoning ("who"). I guess I protect and guide myself.

Past life stuff tends to translate into having affinities for various things in this life. 

Be it a person or liking frigging fish sauce. Heh. 

Mantras are how I pray in this life. 

I occasionally sing songs of the orishas. It comforts me. 

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Piney
16 minutes ago, anton00 said:

Years ago, I found my own little "mantras". I've been using them for years, before falling into sleep. To me, recitating them activates my awareness of being guided and protected. I have no idea by "whom". I don't actually need to know that.. I'm not even into that kind of reasoning ("who"). I guess I protect and guide myself.

I was falsely accused of using my weapon improperly ( I was a Tribal Cop) and sent to prison. All my sacred objects were either destroyed or misused. After a bad go around while living "bush" I had a wake up call and realized everything is just a "focusing tool" and anything from any belief system will work as long as you believe in it. 

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anton00
4 minutes ago, Simbi Laveau said:

Past life stuff tends to translate into having affinities for various things in this life. 

Be it a person or liking frigging fish sauce. Heh. 

Mantras are how I pray in this life. 

I occasionally sing songs of the orishas. It comforts me. 

There are claims in Western reincarnation I fundamentally don't agree with. But what matters is that I forge a helpful tool out of that concept, while adding my own concepts based on constellating, resonating, harmonics. The tool and the experience matter. That tool can become obsolete though. But there are many tools, leading to similar or even better experiences.

Recitating my mantras comforts me. I try different variations of my reference mantra. I like comfort (especially before falling into sleep) but sometimes I want to feel power, action, rallying. I haven't gotten it yet. I have to find the appropriate manta/formula.

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Piney
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, anton00 said:

Years ago, I found my own little "mantras". I've been using them for years, before falling into sleep. To me, recitating them activates my awareness of being guided and protected. I have no idea by "whom". I don't actually need to know that.. I'm not even into that kind of reasoning ("who"). I guess I protect and guide myself.

In a true "Vision Quest" a person has to feel really rock bottom and abandon. Most people create "Thought Forms" from their own subconscious, which is what a "Guardian Spirit" is. 

Edited by Piney
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anton00
13 minutes ago, Piney said:

In a true "Vision Quest" a person has to feel really rock bottom and abandon. Most people create "Thought Forms" from their own subconscious, which is what a "Guardian Spirit" is. 

On the one hand, there's the tool that people actually create and use. On the other hand, there's what they get thanks to using that tool.

So if people create thought forms (tool) from their subconscious to reach serenity and such (outcome), that's fine with me.

If they personify their thought forms, well, it's all part of their belief. If they express that belief as such ("I believe that ..."), that's fine (in this context). But if they turn that belief into a deceiving "assertion", that's dishonest (and unfortunately quite common in life).

If people are fully aware of their own tool and if they express their related belief as such, that's even better.

 

Personally, I don't feel the need to personify whatever is associated with my tool/mantra. I don't need any "protector" or "guide". I can't find resonance in me with the concept of "spirit guides". I'm not convinced by the "spirit guides" I've read about so far. They look way too human-made to me. But to each one their own tool & belief (as long as they keep it as belief).

 

This reminds me of my attempt to do "channeling". I bought a book to learn how to do it. I had preconceptions yet I started reading that book. At some point, they asked to turn our own thoughts into some channeled entity's thoughts. We had to select the thoughts of ours that could look channeled and then we had to jump to the belief those thoughts actually are channeled. At that time, I definitely gave up with "channeling".

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Piney
2 minutes ago, anton00 said:

If people are fully aware of their own tool and if they express their related belief as such, that's even better.

That's the difference between a "Worker" and a "Believer". I was born into a "Worker" family. Taught since I was old enough to understand how to manipulate people's beliefs but not believe them myself. Native psychology.

4 minutes ago, anton00 said:

If they personify their thought forms, well, it's all part of their belief. If they express that belief as such ("I believe that ..."), that's fine (in this context). But if they turn that belief into a deceiving "assertion", that's dishonest (and unfortunately quite common in life).

All "Spirits" and "Gods" are nothing more than the personification of nature and human nature. I carved the Masks, portrayed one of the spirits and that of a shapeshifter. But I knew myself it was only a big "dog and pony puppet show" to keep the masses in line. Just mostly psychology. But I do believe in the spiritual energy in all things and have seen other members of my former Society create full on Tulpas (Thought Forms) that actually tore up a Medicine Lodge.  

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anton00
5 minutes ago, Piney said:

That's the difference between a "Worker" and a "Believer". I was born into a "Worker" family. Taught since I was old enough to understand how to manipulate people's beliefs but not believe them myself. Native psychology.

All "Spirits" and "Gods" are nothing more than the personification of nature and human nature. I carved the Masks, portrayed one of the spirits and that of a shapeshifter. But I knew myself it was only a big "dog and pony puppet show" to keep the masses in line. Just mostly psychology. But I do believe in the spiritual energy in all things and have seen other members of my former Society create full on Tulpas (Thought Forms) that actually tore up a Medicine Lodge.  

I make a difference between 'reality' and 'my own mental representation of reality'. I'm aware that the 'map' is not the 'territory'. That may sound obvious but I've seen many people confuse both, especially in the religion/spirituality field. I would see people claim the 'map' is the 'territory'. That perspective/illusion is foreign to me, to say the least.

 

I consider we all are based on beliefs (but not only). In my perspective, we more or less willingly program ourselves thanks to beliefs. It's fundamental to identify our own beliefs and to alter them if needed.

I take opportunities to share online in order to identify and dissect my beliefs. Like in this thread.

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Aquila King
12 hours ago, Nnicolette said:

i was referring to the opening statement. They dont care if it exists or not, and they dont care what you think about it. They are supposedly non-judgemental of opinions, as in they dont care.  

And "they" refers to me. Kinda odd to read that response to me while referring to "them" as if I didn't already claim to take associate myself with that title...

Minor nitpick, but just sayin'.

12 hours ago, Nnicolette said:

What i missed all these ones :lol: were-dolphins?

Lol, you'll see something similar at some point, I guarantee it. :lol: Just give it time. 

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Aquila King
7 hours ago, anton00 said:

My question was:

"- do you think there cannot be such an evidence anyway?"

 

By asking that question, I wished to know how atheistic you would be. I wished to know what you thought.

I assumed that if you were an atheist, you would think/believe there merely wouldn't be any evidence of the existence of any god.

That's why I usually claim to be an Agnostic Apatheist. I don't know and I don't care.

Since the thread topic was mainly focusing on Apatheism though, I simply focused on that. I'm totally open to the idea that there might be a 'god' of some sort. I just have no clue. Nor do I see myself changing anything about my life if I did know.

7 hours ago, anton00 said:

By asking that question to you, I also asked it to myself. And I think there's no such evidence of the existence of god(s). (This is a thought.) I'm wondering why I think so and I realize I don't give much importance to the concept of god(s). I sure give more importance to religions/spiritualities as I happen to interact with them through some people. Religions/spiritualities all seem 100% human to me.

 

I'm lucky I live in a religion/spirituality-free environment, most of the time. I do appreciate every second of it. At times, I explore religion/spirituality contexts. I can see labelled/categorised people there, which induces in me the need to wear a label/categorie as well. That's where the issue starts. The 'atheist' label looked like the most appropriate label for me but, at the same time, I felt internal discordance with atheists. For lack of any better label... Then I recently came across with the 'apatheist' label and I found it much more appropriate to me. However, this is just a label I wear in specific circumstances, i.e. while interacting with religiously/spiritually labelled/categorised people. Otherwise, I just go on with my life with no such label.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Atheism is a religion (it's not). But I will say that many Atheists will often treat their own list of scientific theories that they use to justify their atheism (such as Materialism, Naturalism, etc.) as their own sort of "religion" so to speak.

They assert that they have the absolute truth, that all other views are wrong, and they actively pursue their own version of evangelism to persuade people to their side.

This doesn't in any way apply to all Atheists, just a certain brand of Atheist that many would call the 'militant' type.

That's in large part why I don't take the title of Atheist.

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jmccr8
17 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Not really.

Ever have a thing you were passionate about, and have someone with no knowledge of that thing define it for you?

Ever have the urge to slam their head into a wall and scream "NO you idiot! That is NOT what it is!"?

Hi Jodie

Ah..er..ah okay maybe once or twice.:whistle:

jmccr8

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Daughter of the Nine Moons
18 hours ago, Likely Guy said:

The religious are on one side, the atheists are on the other while the agnostics sit on the fence.

The apatheist is out somewhere else playing with his dog.

I think that I like this description best lol

I can respect what others choose to believe as it makes little difference to me and my life. I do however dislike it when people use their beliefs as a cudgel. 

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