"America First" Takes Last Place

[Tatetopa]

3 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

2. Globalism in itself is not inherently bad, though it does homogenize everyone and removes cultures in short order. In this sense it can be a bad thing because our differences give things texture and interest, I think.

3. While it is no bad in itself (few things are) what is bad is that corporations are ruling it and the top 1% are not your friends. If they have The control, they also have that over you as a serf, subject to their will and determination of what is cool and what is forbidden. Such as free speech, resistance (is futile) and no voice strong enough to speak up. 

In that, is the badness. It is very bad, as right now, humanity's low ebb is really still low and endlessly greedy. Infinitely so. 

4. If one is going to have a world dictator one wants the very best, and we don't have that. 

Capitaism allows potential for anyone, Globalism... maybe not so much, given the utter amorality of corporate mentality.

I enjoyed your post.  We are in-sync on some of the basic assumptions.

I am not sure what globalism means to most people today.  At one time it was about global domination by one nation.  We were afraid of Russia, China and even the UN usurping our authority and autonomy.  I think the fear was linked to communism and socialism.  That seems really unlikely today.  People are afraid of a bogeyman from the past.   

These days I think globalism will not be achieved by world government but by tightly interwoven corporations.  You can live in America, China, Malaysia, or India.  You can have you own food, your own language, your own laws, and your own country.  Somewhere down the road is a plant that employs you or someone you know.  They make micro chips. There is another plant in another country that makes circuit boards and another that makes cases, and cameras and lcd's and so on.  They get shipped by container on anybody's ship to another country that has a plant that integrates all of that into a product.  The design engineers are scattered out in work groups all over the world and have never met face to face.  The product pops into a box designed online by a firm in Italy.  Same with I-phones, cars, airplanes; just about everything now.  Those corporations that make and sell civilian and consumer goods prefer stability in the world and economic prosperity. Not all corporations operate in lockstep.  Some are competitors, some have goals that run counter to the rest.  The defense industry thrives best on some fear, chaos and animosity in manageable doses.  A major world war would be bad for their business too.

I think local governments and egotistical strongmen are more likely to try to control local populations by force than corporations. Currently Africa is being pulled into the web of interconnected corporations and supply chains.  They need governments that can provide peace, prosperity, and happy working environments to their citizens.  Happy, secure citizens make good customers and productive employees. Fearful citizens living marginal (North Korea) or repressive (Syria maybe) do not make good customers.

Still your point holds: a fraction of the elite control the flow of the world.  We don't really need world dictators, just responsive supply chains for optimum production.  No individual is needed to control it all, and it probably works better if power is dispersed among many nodes. What will they decide to do with the world and its inhabitants?  Good question.  Are they operating as individuals or a group?  I don't know.  Are they a mix of good and evil with a preponderance of one or the other?  Your guess is a s good as mine.

They may not care what you eat or if your cops are honest or corrupt, but they may be interested in influencing governments and citizens to think in certain ways that would promote system stability.  

It strikes me that governments will never agree on climate change or what to do about it, that is one topic that needs world organization and cooperation, and maybe consideration for the welfare of all, not any nation first.  However, if it is in their interest, corporations might start moving us in that direction.

Creepy, scary, and curious all at once.

[Space Commander Travis]

2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Yes the fact that some people actually believe "Trump derangement syndrome" is some sort of mental flaw and not an honest recoiling reaction to blatant corruption and celebrated ignorance truly is proof of concept that Americans can be easily mobilized by news headlines

what about the mental condition that it induces in some people (  ) that causes them to see R*sskies as responsible for absolutely everything?

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

what about the mental condition that it induces in some people (  ) that causes them to see R*sskies as responsible for absolutely everything?

IDK you should probably check with the CIA, FBI, BND and heck even your MOD on that

 

[Space Commander Travis]

Just now, Farmer77 said:

IDK you should probably check with the CIA, FBI, BND and heck even your MOD on that

 

that's exactly what I mean. Surely even you's gotta admit it's hilarious. 

[Farmer77]

Just now, Vlad the Mighty said:

that's exactly what I mean. Surely even you's gotta admit it's hilarious. 

Why though? Would you doubt that the US is doing the very same things all over the globe? Of course not, we know they are, so why is it unimaginable that another superpower would be doing the same?

[Space Commander Travis]

1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

Why though? Would you doubt that the US is doing the very same things all over the globe? Of course not, we know they are, so why is it unimaginable that another superpower would be doing the same?

that';s what I just said in that very thread. Possibly the R*sskies might have more sense than to waste billions of dollars or roubles and years and years on such a ludicrous and pointless concept whose entire purpose seems just to be to annoy. That's what the Pentagon is so good at , and that's what makes America great! 

[Farmer77]

Just now, Vlad the Mighty said:

that';s what I just said in that very thread. Possibly the R*sskies might have more sense than to waste billions of dollars or roubles and years and years on such a ludicrous and pointless concept whose entire purpose seems just to be to annoy.

Major rabbit trail here but if i were a foreign nation that wanted a chance at defeating the US weird technology is exactly what I would be investing in. The American conventional war machine has proven itself virtually unassailable and history has shown that if unified as a bloc the American people are down for a fight. Throwing millions of rubles and years and years of effort on trying to make a better version of what we have has failed over and over again for them going back what 80 years now? 

[Space Commander Travis]

1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

Major rabbit trail here but if i were a foreign nation that wanted a chance at defeating the US weird technology is exactly what I would be investing in.

such as putting a clown with a dodgy hairpiece whose best claim to fame is hosting a reality TV show and for going bankrupt multiple times, and who has a predilection for broadcasting incomprehensible tweets many of which are all in capitals, the sure sign of a not entirely stable mind, into the position of President and then sitting back and watching the fun? Goodness, you might be on to something. I really think someone ought to make a thread so we can discuss this shocking idea. 

[RAyMO]

3 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

"Trump derangement syndrome"

I always think whoever coined this got it ars. about face. Its deranged to continue to support the man given all the evidence that he is out of his league by big big margins, and lives in a lie induced fantasy world.

[RAyMO]

25 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

The American conventional war machine has proven itself virtually unassailable

so was the Romans, among others

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, RAyMO said:

I always think whoever coined this got it ars. about face. Its deranged to continue to support the man given all the evidence that he is out of his league by big big margins, and lives in a lie induced fantasy world.

It truly is the gaslighting of the world."We're not the crazy ones, you are, and we even made up a catchy term for it"

[Space Commander Travis]

Could you tell me what gaslighting means? People, particularly you, use it quite often. Is it anything to do with Fanny by Gaslight?

[Farmer77]

2 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

Could you tell me what gaslighting means? People, particularly you, use it quite often. Is it anything to do with Fanny by Gaslight?

 

gas·light

Dictionary result for gaslight

/ˈɡaslīt/

verb

gerund or present participle: gaslighting

1. manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.

   "in the first episode, Karen Valentine is being gaslighted by her husband"

    

    

    

Edited March 8, 2019 by Farmer77

[RoofGardener]

4 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

 

gas·light

Dictionary result for gaslight

/ˈɡaslīt/

verb

gerund or present participle: gaslighting

1. manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.

   "in the first episode, Karen Valentine is being gaslighted by her husband"

    

    

    

Indeed. Taken from the Alfred Hitchcock film "Gaslight", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslight_(1944_film)#Plot

[Dark_Grey]

7 hours ago, RAyMO said:

so was the Romans, among others

Great empires aren't murdered, they die by suicide. Cultural collapse is the precursor to Imperial collapse. Read up on Russian troll farms and their impact on Western culture over the last few years. It's fascinating stuff. They have been creating memes, organizing events and manipulating polls on both sides in an effort to create division among Americans. I'll be damned if it didn't work like a charm. The media came in and dumped gas on the fire cause it's good for page views and they hate Trump. It was the perfect storm. Now people are attacking each other in the streets over hats, refusing service over political views, etc. The country is deeply divided and this opens the door for a real radical to become POTUS or for foreign powers to take advantage of America's weakened state. I wouldn't say "Russia helped Trump get elected" as that's only half the story. Russians also posted pro-Hillary and pro-Bernie propaganda. They didn't care about choosing "a side", they just kept throwing poking Americans with sticks to agitate them

As an example, these trolls would organize a Black Lives Matter rally across the street from a Blue Lives Matter rally for no other reason that to create chaos. Hell, half the issues we argued over in the UM forums last year might have been manufactured. It's just such an effective way at getting us to fight. 

Making Sense with Sam Harris #145 - The Information War (with Renée DiResta)

Quote

In this episode Sam Harris speaks with Renée DiResta about Russia’s “Internet Research Agency” and its efforts to amplify conspiracy thinking and partisan conflict in the United States. Renée DiResta is the Director of Research at New Knowledge and Head of Policy at the nonprofit organization Data for Democracy where she investigates the spread of malign narratives across social networks. She regularly writes and speaks about the role that tech platforms and curatorial algorithms play in the proliferation of disinformation and conspiracy theories. She is the author of The Hardware Startup: Building your Product, Business, and Brand.

 

[Myles]

8 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

It truly is the gaslighting of the world."We're not the crazy ones, you are, and we even made up a catchy term for it"

You better get yourself checked out.   You seem to have the symptoms of TDS.

[F3SS]

Trump has said many many times since the early rally days that we need more legal immigration for those reasons. Whether we do or not I don't know but it's a non-issue to me since it's legal. There's no flip flop here and this opening post is as misinformed and more likely purposefully misleading as the AOC HUGE SCANDAL thread. 

[Gromdor]

Well, the good news is that there are hundreds of thousands of Central Americans coming and wanting to file for (legal) asylum.  If Trump just steps up and gets more people to process them we can kill two birds with one stone. 

[F3SS]

Nice strawman. I bet you patted yourself.on the back for that one. Our asylum laws need some work and are highly abused. Hundreds of thousands have the time, energy and resources to march thousands of miles to our border but not to their own capitol. That's not good news. That sounds like hundreds of thousands looking for Easy Street. 

[Tatetopa]

15 hours ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

Is it anything to do with Fanny by Gaslight?

What are you implying here Vlad? I hope you are not exhorting impressionable lads to ignore the dangers of attempted combustion of their flatulence.

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, F3SS said:

Hundreds of thousands have the time, energy and resources to march thousands of miles to our border but not to their own capitol.

I missed that.  Why would they march to their own capitol?

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

Well, the good news is that there are hundreds of thousands of Central Americans coming and wanting to file for (legal) asylum.  If Trump just steps up and gets more people to process them we can kill two birds with one stone. 

Why not?  If that many apply surely there is a good selection for candidates for available jobs.  Only 20, 000 jobs filled last month and unemployment is at a spectacular 3.8%.  It really does seem like time to increase the labor pool.  If you have recently interviewed people for  entry level manufacturing jobs, you know we are dredging the bottom of the pool.  We wound up recently hiring what seemed to be the best of five that showed up on time for the interview.  We let him go after two weeks because he showed up so drunk at work, he didn't know his jeans were on backwards.  People like that are very dangerous to themselves and other employees.

F3SS if somebody walks hundreds of miles to show up for the chance at a job,  I would think that person has more on the ball than many we talk to trying to fill a job.   Streamline the machinery and bring them in legally.

[Gromdor]

32 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Why not?  If that many apply surely there is a good selection for candidates for available jobs.  Only 20, 000 jobs filled last month and unemployment is at a spectacular 3.8%.  It really does seem like time to increase the labor pool.  If you have recently interviewed people for  entry level manufacturing jobs, you know we are dredging the bottom of the pool.  We wound up recently hiring what seemed to be the best of five that showed up on time for the interview.  We let him go after two weeks because he showed up so drunk at work, he didn't know his jeans were on backwards.  People like that are very dangerous to themselves and other employees.

F3SS if somebody walks hundreds of miles to show up for the chance at a job,  I would think that person has more on the ball than many we talk to trying to fill a job.   Streamline the machinery and bring them in legally.

Heh, I need to get 5 guys for my crew for a project starting in two weeks and can feel your pain.  Thinking of hitting up my buddy at a rival company and seeing if any of his guys want to jump ship for a couple of months.  My project is indoors and his is frozen out and waiting for thaw.  At the same time I am keeping an eye on a project that needs to be done by next week that another company has at one of the power plants I am at.  They are going to need around 11 guys and I am not sure they are going to be able to get them and the job done before the deadline.  Since we are talking millions a day that the plant is down and a potential to lose their spot on the firing cycle, it could be a big chance for my company to play "hero".

[Tatetopa]

19 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Heh, I need to get 5 guys for my crew for a project starting in two weeks and can feel your pain.  Thinking of hitting up my buddy at a rival company and seeing if any of his guys want to jump ship for a couple of months.  My project is indoors and his is frozen out and waiting for thaw.  At the same time I am keeping an eye on a project that needs to be done by next week that another company has at one of the power plants I am at.  They are going to need around 11 guys and I am not sure they are going to be able to get them and the job done before the deadline.  Since we are talking millions a day that the plant is down and a potential to lose their spot on the firing cycle, it could be a big chance for my company to play "hero".

Good luck.  I am on the manufacturing side of things.  My last big project was design and layout for a 10k expansion to our wax molding area. Getting the building up was easy compared to the rest.  I was smart enough to order the machinery a year in advance and it got here on time.  The mechanical and electrical guys were hard pressed and running almost 3 weeks behind by the end of the project.  The electrical guy is great, I have dealt with him on a number of projects, but he was short about 10 electricians for his project load.  We brought in a second mechanical contractor to help finish.  Both are  good, reliable guys with some history at our plant.  Same story, short journeymen in both their shops.  Tool and die shops I deal with for our injection tools tell the same story, can't hire enough young people who want to train in a craft.  I guess everybody wants to be an investment banker or an internet influencer.

It is not a joke. While the pols flap their gums and wave their arms and talk about it, we need action on technical and craft training.  Some good publicity wouldn't hurt either..  Young people don't realize how much money they can make in a craft, or that is is a very respectable and often challenging  career to master a trade.  This whole economy will sputter out if we don't supply those folks.  We do need computer people and design engineers, but we also need the guys that can wire up their computers and program and operate a 5-axis milling machine to make what they design..

Kinda off topic, but best of luck. Nice to be a hero when you can.

 

[Tatetopa]

Advertise for  and expedite trades people in the immigration application lines.  Machinists, welders, pipefitters, electricians, production operators, hydraulic mechanics and others.  If you are not sure we need them, don't believe me do a little research on your own.

End of tirade.