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Eldorado

Islamophobia in the Conservative Party

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Eldorado

"George Osborne has attacked the Conservatives' "problem" with Islamophobia and urged the party to do more to tackle it.

The former chancellor-turned-editor of the Evening Standard newspaper called on journalists to "shine a light" on some Tory members' and elected officials' prejudice towards Muslims.

He told Sky News that both Islamophobia in the Conservatives and antisemitism in the Labour Party "shouldn't be happening at all"."

Full report at Minster FM:https://www.minsterfm.com/news/national/2823636/ex-chancellor-george-osborne-tells-conservatives-to-fix-islamophobia-problem/

At Sky News: https://news.sky.com/story/ex-chancellor-george-osborne-tells-conservatives-to-fix-islamophobia-problem-11658555

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RoofGardener

I'm always nervous of this term "Islamophobia", as it often seems to be used as a battering ram to shut down any debate about Islam. 

A Tory councillor was recently criticised (and threatened with removal) for re-tweeing a tweet that supported Tommy Robinson. (it called him ".. a patriot". ). This was in response to TR being banned from Facebook. 

Can you see how this works ? If you criticise Islam, you are de-platformed and banned. If somebody else complains about you being de-platformed, they are targeted with the neologism "islamaphobic". The last group in Western society that used these techniques where the Third Reich !

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The Wistman
18 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

I'm always nervous of this term "Islamophobia", as it often seems to be used as a battering ram to shut down any debate about Islam. 

A Tory councillor was recently criticised (and threatened with removal) for re-tweeing a tweet that supported Tommy Robinson. (it called him ".. a patriot". ). This was in response to TR being banned from Facebook. 

Can you see how this works ? If you criticise Islam, you are de-platformed and banned. If somebody else complains about you being de-platformed, they are targeted with the neologism "islamaphobic". The last group in Western society that used these techniques where the Third Reich !

Similarly, some of us are worried that the term "anti-semitism" is used in precisely the same way, ie: to shut down any and all criticism of the policies of the right wing government of Israel.  If "anti-semitism" is a legitimate term to be wielded broadly as a censoring mechanism, then there should be no proscription against the word "islamophobia".  Maybe we should eliminate the use of both words in political context, since they are imprecise and loaded with historical passion.  Local laws and policing should be employed to counter the evil prejudice of some people against jews and muslims alike.  The powerful entities in the Middle East waging war and disruption should not be allowed to hide themselves behind words that are not meant to shield them from the consequences of their acts and policies.

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

I'm always nervous of this term "Islamophobia", as it often seems to be used as a battering ram to shut down any debate about Islam. 

A Tory councillor was recently criticised (and threatened with removal) for re-tweeing a tweet that supported Tommy Robinson. (it called him ".. a patriot". ). This was in response to TR being banned from Facebook. 

Can you see how this works ? If you criticise Islam, you are de-platformed and banned. If somebody else complains about you being de-platformed, they are targeted with the neologism "islamaphobic". The last group in Western society that used these techniques where the Third Reich !


Oh really? How do you feel about the term 'Anti Semitism', dear Gardener?

Unbelievable this dude. :lol:

Edited by Phaeton80
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Phaeton80

Also, there is an essential difference in the use of both terms imho. Islamophobism isnt used to denote those that criticize military oppression of a native population by a political entity, or the general political actions of any given state, Anti Semitism is.

Islam is being equated with terrorism in a lot of instances in the West, claiming Islam is inherently malignant, a cancer to society (while ofcourse all the main Western players are fully supporting extremist elements like SA and thus Wahhabism, the real cancerous elements). If that doesnt consititute real anti Semitism and ratifies the true meaning of Islamophobism, given this is full blown demonization of a Semetic religion and all that adhere to it - as opposed to the actions of a political entity / ideology like Zionism - I dont know what is.

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hetrodoxly
1 hour ago, Eldorado said:

Islamophobia

No such thing, if you're in a busy shopping centre, concert, airplane etc and a man with a long beard wearing clothes made for the desert starts shouting 'Allahu Akbar' be afraid you don't have a phobia.

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hetrodoxly
4 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

Also, there is an essential difference in the use of both terms imho. Islamophobism isnt used to denote those that criticize military oppression of a native population by a political entity, or the general political actions of any given state, Anti Semitism is.

Islam is being equated with terrorism in a lot of instances in the West, claiming Islam is inherently malignant, a cancer to society (while ofcourse all the main Western players are fully supporting extremist elements like SA and thus Wahhabism, the real cancerous elements). If that doesnt consititute real anti Semitism and ratifies the true meaning of Islamophobism, given this is full blown demonization of a Semetic religion and all that adhere to it - as opposed to the actions of a political entity / ideology like Zionism - I dont know what is.

Utter nonsense, the criticism and or hatred of a group of people and a religion are two very different things you have the choice of being a Muslim (well you do in none Islamic countries) you're born a Jew, i see more Christianophobia on these boards.

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spartan max2
40 minutes ago, The Wistman said:

Similarly, some of us are worried that the term "anti-semitism" is used in precisely the same way, ie: to shut down any and all criticism of the policies of the right wing government of Israel.  If "anti-semitism" is a legitimate term to be wielded broadly as a censoring mechanism, then there should be no proscription against the word "islamophobia".  Maybe we should eliminate the use of both words in political context, since they are imprecise and loaded with historical passion.  Local laws and policing should be employed to counter the evil prejudice of some people against jews and muslims alike.  The powerful entities in the Middle East waging war and disruption should not be allowed to hide themselves behind words that are not meant to shield them from the consequences of their acts and policies.

It is almost as if any form of political correctness just shuts down debate ^_^, who would of thought lol

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RoofGardener
18 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:


Oh really? How do you feel about the term 'Anti Semitism', dear Gardener?

Unbelievable this dude. :lol:

I have similar feelings about it, Feeble80. It can be used to shut down debate. 

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Farmer77
18 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

Utter nonsense, the criticism and or hatred of a group of people and a religion are two very different things 

They can be but all too often one is hidden behind the other. 

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hetrodoxly
1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

They can be but all too often one is hidden behind the other. 

No religion should be above criticism.

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Farmer77
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

No religion should be above criticism.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. Where things get sticky is delineating where criticism ends and obsessively looking for reasons to attack  begins. 

Edited by Farmer77
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hetrodoxly
1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. Where things get sticky is delineating where criticism ends and obsessively looking for reasons to attack  begins. 

I don't believe in undeserved criticism, when a religion seeks to bring back blasphemy laws (and it's succeeding) to prevent all criticism it deserves all it gets or when it makes preposterous claims like 'the religion of peace' it deserves to be shouted down by every right thinking person.

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RoofGardener
1 hour ago, hetrodoxly said:

I don't believe in undeserved criticism, when a religion seeks to bring back blasphemy laws (and it's succeeding) to prevent all criticism it deserves all it gets or when it makes preposterous claims like 'the religion of peace' it deserves to be shouted down by every right thinking person.

Careful hetrodoxly.. that is Islamophobia. (Unless you are discussing Christianity, in which case all criticism is approved)

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bmk1245

Nowadays raging Judophobia is OK, but don't you dare to say a word about islam... Funny times we live in...

I'm kinda curious about feminists defending islam: sharia is quite clear -  woman is a property.

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odas
On 09/03/2019 at 4:30 PM, bmk1245 said:

Nowadays raging Judophobia is OK, but don't you dare to say a word about islam... Funny times we live in...

I'm kinda curious about feminists defending islam: sharia is quite clear -  woman is a property.

Nope. Sharia is clear woman is not a property.

Anyways, I do have to admitt that christianity is getting a beating here while we all have to shut up when it comes to Islam and Judaism. I refuse to do so and accept criticism for my religion. Jews and Muslims should grow up and stop holding the world hostage. They are no better or worse then any other. If christians are a fair game to beat up the so are jews and muslims. Do not care anymore about past stuff that happened before I was born. 

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Likely Guy

I'd rather see people stop attacking all religions in general.

It's not any specific religion that's wrong, just the people that bend it toward their own perverse will.

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and then
6 hours ago, Likely Guy said:

I'd rather see people stop attacking all religions in general.

It's not any specific religion that's wrong, just the people that bend it toward their own perverse will.

Because they all equally tell their followers to "smite the necks?"  :huh:

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odas
8 hours ago, and then said:

Because they all equally tell their followers to "smite the necks?"  :huh:

You are correct for ones, thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know, I know.

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Phaeton80
12 hours ago, and then said:

Because they all equally tell their followers to "smite the necks?"  :huh:


Oh please, those verses refer to specific situations, specific battles.

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Golden Duck
On 3/9/2019 at 12:02 AM, The Wistman said:

Similarly, some of us are worried that the term "anti-semitism" is used in precisely the same way, ie: to shut down any and all criticism of the policies of the right wing government of Israel.  If "anti-semitism" is a legitimate term to be wielded broadly as a censoring mechanism, then there should be no proscription against the word "islamophobia".  Maybe we should eliminate the use of both words in political context, since they are imprecise and loaded with historical passion.  Local laws and policing should be employed to counter the evil prejudice of some people against jews and muslims alike.  The powerful entities in the Middle East waging war and disruption should not be allowed to hide themselves behind words that are not meant to shield them from the consequences of their acts and policies.

I'm curious why antisemitism is a type of racism and why Jews are described as an ethnoreligious group. Anti-Muslim speech does carry the same risk of sanction; yet, we clearly know the meaning of the pejorative "person of Middle Eastern appearance".

Early on in Rachel Bloul's draft Islamophobia and anti-discrimination laws: ethnoreligion as a legal category in the UK and Australia, there is a reference to Shmuel Almog's What's in a Hyphen?

Almog states that Jews are not a race; and, Semites as a group include both Jews and Arabs.  What might of interest to the pedants is that Almog asserts there is a profound difference in the absence of the hyphen.

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RoofGardener
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:


Oh please, those verses refer to specific situations, specific battles.

No they don't. They refer to all examples of dealings with unbelievers. 

Edited by RoofGardener
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odas
2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

No they don't. They refer to all examples of dealings with unbelievers. 

No they don't, only specific situations as P80 pointed correctly out.

 

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

No they don't. They refer to all examples of dealings with unbelievers. 


:o If you say so, oh ye magnificent truthsayer; master of objective - critical thought, friendly neighbourhood Quran adept. Wouldnt want to damage your cozy worldview, neatly divided into black & white, 'good' & 'bad', and all that.

They want to murder all of us 'Unbelievers', 'real Muslims' simply murder everyone who doesnt 'do as they do'.. anyone else's blood is purrrfectly halal. Just like 'ISIS', a prime example of the toxic contents of the Qur'an! 'Moderates' are just the fake version of the true Islamic 'mass murderers / natural born terrorists'.. We all need to up our military budgets and combine our military might to bomb these Evil Muslims to kingdom come for once and for all, lets use the Iraq template for the whole of the ME! War on Terror is so 2001, we need a War on Islam, and all Islamic countries (xcept Saudi Arabia / Qatar / UAE ofcourse)! *Yay!*

Also, to soothe your (b&w) mind, heres one of your favourite vdo's..

Excellent isnt it.


..Better?

Edited by Phaeton80

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