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ant0n

How can scientists hide evidence alien life?

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Piney
9 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

When warning of a threat aren't acted on it seems more out of incompetence. 

Completely! 

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the13bats
2 hours ago, Habitat said:

In my very sober judgement, I believe he is quite correct. Based on sustained experience. It is "only" the subconscious mind, is the word of someone firmly lodged in the conscious.

I dont drink or use drugs, your "judgement is only opinion i have my own,

You have a Bit of mumbo jumbo there that leads to zippo and closed minded assumptions, the simple fact is dreams are products of and limited to ones own mind conscious or subconscious, there is no great insites to be had that werent there all along, 

All the mystic realm otherwordly fantasy stuff some claim to need to control their lives is delusions like people who firmly believe they were abducted by aliens, its a product of and exists only in their minds.

If some people need this and it some way helps them feel more powerful and special i feel badly for them and do understand and will offer them compassion.

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Habitat
6 minutes ago, the13bats said:

I dont drink or use drugs, your "judgement is only opinion i have my own,

You have a Bit of mumbo jumbo there that leads to zippo and closed minded assumptions, the simple fact is dreams are products of and limited to ones own mind conscious or subconscious, there is no great insites to be had that werent there all along, 

All the mystic realm otherwordly fantasy stuff some claim to need to control their lives is delusions like people who firmly believe they were abducted by aliens, its a product of and exists only in their minds.

If some people need this and it some way helps them feel more powerful and special i feel badly for them and do understand and will offer them compassion.

Why would it worry you if dreams offer some kind of possible entrée to a place that is "outside of time" ? No-one is trying to sell you anything here.

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the13bats
4 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Why would it worry you if dreams offer some kind of possible entrée to a place that is "outside of time" ? No-one is trying to sell you anything here.

Doesnt worry me any i have no idea why you would suggest that,

Why does it worry you far more it would seem that dreams are a simple product of ones own mind it starts there and ends there, and the power is within the person all along.

The idea dreams are "outside of time" is a bit mind engaging and fun as what seems like a long drawn out dream is likely only a few moments, i know not your point.

But no, i dont worry or care what a dreamer belives happens in that land of their mind.

 

 

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Habitat
5 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Doesnt worry me any i have no idea why you would suggest that,

Why does it worry you far more it would seem that dreams are a simple product of ones own mind it starts there and ends there, and the power is within the person all along.

The idea dreams are "outside of time" is a bit mind engaging and fun as what seems like a long drawn out dream is likely only a few moments, i know not your point.

But no, i dont worry or care what a dreamer belives happens in that land of their mind.

 

 

You appear to think this cannot be, but to my observations, and they are careful and considered, it is actually the case, people can dream future events, well beyond what might be explained by lucky hits, or co-incidence. I would not say it is reliable, or consistent, but is far beyond chance happening, in some cases.

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ChrLzs
27 minutes ago, Habitat said:

You appear to think this cannot be, but to my observations, and they are careful and considered, it is actually the case, people can dream future events, well beyond what might be explained by lucky hits, or co-incidence. I would not say it is reliable, or consistent, but is far beyond chance happening, in some cases.

WHICH cases?  C'mon, Hab, bravely commit.  And explain how you have factored in the facts, in particular:

- random chance guarantees there will be many coincidences ranging from mundane to extraordinarily unbelievable, especially given the huge numbers of people who now share anecdotes.  So how many *should* there be?

- people are generally NOT going to report all the failures.  I once had an extraordinary realistic dream of a plane crash the night before I had to take a flight.  I took the flight, and there was no incident.  How many times do you think that might happen to others, and of course, you know, every now and then planes crash - what are the chances that of the crash survivors some will have dreamt of a crash (especially those most scared of flying..).

 

It's a complex topic, and if you don't think it through, then i guess you could be suckered into thinking there is something 'more'..

There isn't.  And I can argue a very simple fact that proves there isn't.  Think about the evolutionary advantage premonition would give!!!!  

Think.

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Habitat
6 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

There isn't.  And I can argue a very simple fact that proves there isn't.  Think about the evolutionary advantage premonition would give!!!!  

Think.

Think ? Don't worry, I have done plenty of that. A without any predisposition to settle one way or the other. And how do you know it may have not have conferred an evolutionary advantage ? I have used it to financial advantage, and should have done much better, but for doubts of the reliability of what I was presented with. But the most convincing ones, in convincing me this is real, there was no advantage to be had.

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ant0n
4 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Why do think this?  Is there a precedent?

When warning of a threat aren't acted on it seems more out of incompetence. 

Be competent while cropping quotes.

 

Here was my full post as a comment to: " And if somebody actually finds it, you can be sure as hell that it will be all over the world media. :yes: "

 

Me:

"That's what we can "normally" expect indeed ^^

Unless those life forms happen to be an imminent global threat, I'd be celebrating that day when such an evidence would be announced :sk"

 

That post was joyful and was not a "warning" in any case.

 

If you have facts about how benevolent or malevolent extraterrestrial life could be, feel free to share.

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Golden Duck
On 3/11/2019 at 8:21 AM, acute said:

Finding any form of life so close to home would tell us that the Earth is far from unique, and we can expect there to be millions of civilizations in the universe(s).

If life originated on Earth through panspermia would could expect SETI to be turning up something sooner rather than later.

However, a positive find from SETI might strengthen the possibility of panspermia.

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the13bats
2 hours ago, Habitat said:

You appear to think this cannot be, but to my observations, and they are careful and considered, it is actually the case, people can dream future events, well beyond what might be explained by lucky hits, or co-incidence. I would not say it is reliable, or consistent, but is far beyond chance happening, in some cases.

 

1 hour ago, Habitat said:

Think ? Don't worry, I have done plenty of that. A without any predisposition to settle one way or the other. And how do you know it may have not have conferred an evolutionary advantage ? I have used it to financial advantage, and should have done much better, but for doubts of the reliability of what I was presented with. But the most convincing ones, in convincing me this is real, there was no advantage to be had.

I see zero point in time or engery wasting on something like this if there is no advantage, nor do i want to devote much time to discounting a persons beliefs which in this case cant be proven and only exist in the belivers mind and are of admitted by them of zero advantage.

Precognition, there are real scientific studies published that dismiss and explain the phenomenon you can look them up yourself.

Nostredame, was the famous guy his nearly 1000 babbling, vauge, convoluted poetic quatrains which after the fact 100% of the time were subscribed to this or that event in some cases as history would change the prediction would be resubscrubed.

It doesnt make a difference if a person claims to channel recognition from dreams, tea leaves rolling bones or the lumps i am procrastinating scooping from the cat boxes by repling to this if and thats a huge categorical if anything comes to pass that was predicted and documented before the fact it can always be explained by coincidence, this of course is compounded by probability,

Nostredame was so darn vauge it could be applied to too many things after 100s of years his fans with a lot of twisting and turning made a few fit real events but like i said after the fact and rather loosly, and to zero advantage.

If you, me anyone would write 1000 predictions even far less vauge than Nostredame and in the next fee years some will get hits,

Charles plane crash dream great example, had he jotted on a night stand note pad i dreamed the plane will crash and it did oh boy true belivers will say he pegged it, no it was pure coincidence, and since the plane thankfully didnt crash then true believers sweep that under the rug with the other zillion fails to one coincidental hit.

Never has someone for example predicted june 6th the Timbuktu state lotto will be X X X X and they hit it, doesnt count after the fact.

I have been around all kinds of spiritual , paranormal,  new age, etc etc type stuff where you saw what you did and were convinced i saw what i did and have a far greater understanding of how the mind works and what some people need and crave,

I understand why some people want it to be more and so they can feel more special more deeper in tune and a part of something bigger and more epic, i find it driven by ego and ingoring much thought on it no matter how much they claim to have thought about it.

So heres where i drift away, im not going to keep repeating the same thing to deaf ears. You cling to your beliefs and i will hold onto facts and things that can be proven and are of some advantage.

 

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psyche101
2 hours ago, Habitat said:

You appear to think this cannot be, but to my observations, and they are careful and considered, it is actually the case, people can dream future events, well beyond what might be explained by lucky hits, or co-incidence. I would not say it is reliable, or consistent, but is far beyond chance happening, in some cases.

Your determining your outcomes though Hab. You have openly eschewed science for superstitions and religious idealogies. You see things beyond chance where others don't. It's reliable and consistent to you but that doesn't convince other from an outside perspective. 

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Golden Duck
20 minutes ago, anton00 said:

Be competent while cropping quotes.

 

Here was my full post as a comment to: " And if somebody actually finds it, you can be sure as hell that it will be all over the world media. :yes: "

 

Me:

"That's what we can "normally" expect indeed ^^

Unless those life forms happen to be an imminent global threat, I'd be celebrating that day when such an evidence would be announced :sk"

 

That post was joyful and was not a "warning" in any case.

 

If you have facts about how benevolent or malevolent extraterrestrial life could be, feel free to share.

I read your use of the word 'unless' connecting it with the previous unpunctuated line or paragraph.  In that paragraph, the use of quotation marks might be interpreted as sarcasm.  Perhaps I also mistakenly read the, only punctuation mark you used, the comma as a full stop.

So, I've incorrectly, interpreted you as suggesting that an imminent alien threat or indeed aliens will be covered up - an idea you seem to support in your OP.

I was asserting that we have many examples of authorities warning the public of potential danger.  When the warnings were not given the only cover up was an attempt to hide incompetence.

I can now see how I misread your intended message.  

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the13bats

I have a bad habit of using commas where i should use a period, ill us this as a heads up duck :tu:

 

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Habitat
22 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Your determining your outcomes though Hab. You have openly eschewed science for superstitions and religious idealogies. You see things beyond chance where others don't. It's reliable and consistent to you but that doesn't convince other from an outside perspective. 

Not so. It took decades for me to realise this is a fact, although I have been well aware of it as a proposition, much earlier. Whether others think it impossible is not a concern, I have to go with what I know.

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Golden Duck
2 minutes ago, the13bats said:

I have a bad habit of using commas where i should use a period, ill us this as a heads up duck :tu:

 

I make an embarrassing amount of errors myself. I'm not a position to be casting stones.  I'm just trying to explain how I misread something in haste.

I'm also aware that it's poor form, on this site, to be critical of another member's grammar - especially if English is not their first language.

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Habitat
35 minutes ago, the13bats said:

 

I see zero point in time or engery wasting on something like this if there is no advantage, nor do i want to devote much time to discounting a persons beliefs which in this case cant be proven and only exist in the belivers mind and are of admitted by them of zero advantage.

Precognition, there are real scientific studies published that dismiss and explain the phenomenon you can look them up yourself.

Nostredame, was the famous guy his nearly 1000 babbling, vauge, convoluted poetic quatrains which after the fact 100% of the time were subscribed to this or that event in some cases as history would change the prediction would be resubscrubed.

It doesnt make a difference if a person claims to channel recognition from dreams, tea leaves rolling bones or the lumps i am procrastinating scooping from the cat boxes by repling to this if and thats a huge categorical if anything comes to pass that was predicted and documented before the fact it can always be explained by coincidence, this of course is compounded by probability,

Nostredame was so darn vauge it could be applied to too many things after 100s of years his fans with a lot of twisting and turning made a few fit real events but like i said after the fact and rather loosly, and to zero advantage.

If you, me anyone would write 1000 predictions even far less vauge than Nostredame and in the next fee years some will get hits,

Charles plane crash dream great example, had he jotted on a night stand note pad i dreamed the plane will crash and it did oh boy true belivers will say he pegged it, no it was pure coincidence, and since the plane thankfully didnt crash then true believers sweep that under the rug with the other zillion fails to one coincidental hit.

Never has someone for example predicted june 6th the Timbuktu state lotto will be X X X X and they hit it, doesnt count after the fact.

I have been around all kinds of spiritual , paranormal,  new age, etc etc type stuff where you saw what you did and were convinced i saw what i did and have a far greater understanding of how the mind works and what some people need and crave,

I understand why some people want it to be more and so they can feel more special more deeper in tune and a part of something bigger and more epic, i find it driven by ego and ingoring much thought on it no matter how much they claim to have thought about it.

So heres where i drift away, im not going to keep repeating the same thing to deaf ears. You cling to your beliefs and i will hold onto facts and things that can be proven and are of some advantage.

 

That long lecture sounded very much to me, like what it was, an attempt to convince yourself, no-one who was comfortably  certain that this is a settled matter, would have bothered, and certainly not in that tone. 

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ant0n
1 minute ago, Golden Duck said:

I read your use of the word 'unless' connecting it with the previous unpunctuated line or paragraph.  In that paragraph, the use of quotation marks might be interpreted as sarcasm.  Perhaps I also mistakenly read the, only punctuation mark you used, the comma as a full stop.

So, I've incorrectly, interpreted you as suggesting that an imminent alien threat or indeed aliens will be covered up - an idea you seem to support in your OP.

I was asserting that we have many examples of authorities warning the public of potential danger.  When the warnings were not given the only cover up was an attempt to hide incompetence.

I can now see how I misread your intended message.  

 

I'm glad this is clarified now. I understand your perspective then and now.

 

I'm not into spreading fear regarding "extraterrestrial life". We don't know any fact about it yet, we can only speculate and express beliefs, thoughts, feelings. For what they're worth...

 

Here's where I'm standing:

- I believe there exists ET life, from primitive to "more evolved than us". It is a belief expressed as such;

- I believe an evidence of the existence of an ET life can (almost) rise within the next few years at the latest;

- I encourage people (children especially) to be open to the possibility of the existence of ET life (instead of sticking to its non-existence only). I try to encourage open-mindedness on that subject, beyond sci-fi;

- I expect an evidence soon, I expect it all to revolutionize us, in one way or another.

 

What matters first to me:

it's fine to have beliefs, thoughts, feelings. We just have to express them as such and not to turn them into fake assertions.

Like: "I believe in the existence of ET life" turned into "There's ET life."

 

 

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psyche101
16 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Not so. It took decades for me to realise this is a fact, although I have been well aware of it as a proposition, much earlier. Whether others think it impossible is not a concern, I have to go with what I know.

But what you claim to know is blatantly restricted to superstitious answers. You attack sciences that dismisses superstition on fair ground, how is that not having a predetermined conclusion? 

Despite your bluster about having concrete proof, you don't seem confident when sharing it with others, you PMd Chrlz with your claims, and when I asked you to list 5 things that are well beyond chance you politely declined. 

How confident can you possibly be when you fear critical evaluation so? 

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Habitat
3 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

But what you claim to know is blatantly restricted to superstitious answers. You attack sciences that dismisses superstition on fair ground, how is that not having a predetermined conclusion? 

Despite your bluster about having concrete proof, you don't seem confident when sharing it with others, you PMd Chrlz with your claims, and when I asked you to list 5 things that are well beyond chance you politely declined. 

How confident can you possibly be when you fear critical evaluation so? 

I don't recall your request.

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the13bats
14 minutes ago, Habitat said:

That long lecture sounded very much to me, like what it was, an attempt to convince yourself, no-one who was comfortably  certain that this is a settled matter, would have bothered, and certainly not in that tone. 

 

Good one,

I will feed a troll once more because, geez i didnt know you would get so deeply hurt i dismissed you in my last reply,

Everything you just tossed at me is what we both know you feel, you have zero zip zlitch, it really eats you up inside, heres a great example,

Quote

 I have to go with what I know

Which isnt much, and when called for proof you derail.

Since i and others have said it all but your delusional mind cant grasp it so as much as i dislike hurting you so deeply as you have shown i did im not going to reply to your future rantings, you are a waste of time.

sure, you will have to get that last word at me, it just proves my thoughts and points about you, so go wild...

 

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Habitat
1 minute ago, the13bats said:

 

Good one,

I will feed a troll once more because, geez i didnt know you would get so deeply hurt i dismissed you in my last reply,

Everything you just tossed at me is what we both know you feel, you have zero zip zlitch, it really eats you up inside, heres a great example,

Which isnt much, and when called for proof you derail.

Since i and others have said it all but your delusional mind cant grasp it so as much as i dislike hurting you so deeply as you have shown i did im not going to reply to your future rantings, you are a waste of time.

sure, you will have to get that last word at me, it just proves my thoughts and points about you, so go wild...

 

Thank you, and do call again ! 

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psyche101
1 minute ago, Habitat said:

I don't recall your request.

Fair enough, it was a few weeks ago in the religious section. 

So I'll make it again. 5 things? Well beyond chance, well beyond reasonable doubt, and I promise a fair listen. If there really is something like that happening, that's fascinating, but a critical outside view might not agree that the instances are beyond chance. Could you manage to put conclusions aside to evaluate from others perspectives fairly? 

There are interesting anecdotes from all corners of the earth. I'd be impressed if you could support even one of yours. 

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Farmer77

A belief is a belief , hell even if you've had experiences and believe you know, without the receipts its all just belief. And thats OK ! 

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Habitat
5 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Fair enough, it was a few weeks ago in the religious section. 

So I'll make it again. 5 things? Well beyond chance, well beyond reasonable doubt, and I promise a fair listen. If there really is something like that happening, that's fascinating, but a critical outside view might not agree that the instances are beyond chance. Could you manage to put conclusions aside to evaluate from others perspectives fairly? 

There are interesting anecdotes from all corners of the earth. I'd be impressed if you could support even one of yours. 

So far as the dream predictions are concerned, the most convincing was one I has that seemingly predicted an occurrence where oil came ashore from a shipping accident off SE Queensland. In the dream, I saw earthmovers (end loaders), buses, workers in high-visibility clothing, and, significantly, the beach looking as of it had all been raked or scarified, at a very particular spot at Moreton Island, that being the last creek along the main beach, heading north. Years after the dream, the accident occurred, and what do I see, on a TV news report, the whole lot as described above, and at that exact point, on a beach that is 25 miles long.  Even the workers were milling around outside the buses, as if they have finished the job, as per the dream. The oily sand had been raked up into small heaps by the workers, and scooped up by the loaders. There is just no way this scenario was just co-incidence, the oil was not part of the dream, but neither was it obvious in the news story at that point on the beach, it has already been collected. It that was the only such dream I ever had, I would probably still have some slight reservation, but there have been many other such dreams, and I would be nuts to deny that it is real.

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Golden Duck
11 minutes ago, anton00 said:

 

I'm glad this is clarified now. I understand your perspective then and now.

 

I'm not into spreading fear regarding "extraterrestrial life". We don't know any fact about it yet, we can only speculate and express beliefs, thoughts, feelings. For what they're worth...

 

Here's where I'm standing:

- I believe there exists ET life, from primitive to "more evolved than us". It is a belief expressed as such;

- I believe an evidence of the existence of an ET life can (almost) rise within the next few years at the latest;

- I encourage people (children especially) to be open to the possibility of the existence of ET life (instead of sticking to its non-existence only). I try to encourage open-mindedness on that subject, beyond sci-fi;

- I expect an evidence soon, I expect it all to revolutionize us, in one way or another.

 

What matters first to me:

it's fine to have beliefs, thoughts, feelings. We just have to express them as such and not to turn them into fake assertions.

Like: "I believe in the existence of ET life" turned into "There's ET life."

 

 

I can't recall ever hearing anyone denying the possibility of ET life.  You will not find the denial of ET life here.  ET visitation is a horse of a different colour.

 

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