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ant0n

How can scientists hide evidence alien life?

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psyche101
16 hours ago, Habitat said:

Not sure, but it was several years, 3-5 perhaps. As I have mentioned before, I can't recall on any other occasion, waking from a dream and vocalizing the words. "as if that could ****ing happen". But that is what I did !

I believe you. However, as Golden Duck ventured, what specifically rules out self fulfilling prophesy, unconscious perception and memory bias? 

Why could they not factor in here? What excludes them? 

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psyche101
15 hours ago, TrumanB said:

Don't try to convict them...there is no point. They will always give some ridiculous 'rational' answer that makes no sense but they will believe it because they have their own bias. Personally, I had hundreds of precognitive dreams during these 32 years of my life. They are spontaneous and I can't really order them like a movie in the video club but they are there.

 

I assume you mean convince. 

What do you have against rational explanations? Do you feel we should just run with imagination instead? 

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jmccr8
19 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

I make an embarrassing amount of errors myself. I'm not a position to be casting stones.  I'm just trying to explain how I misread something in haste.

I'm also aware that it's poor form, on this site, to be critical of another member's grammar - especially if English is not their first language.

Hi Golden Duck

Before I joined this site all I wrote was my name on a paycheque and you have no idea how long it takes me to type and edit and I do speak some apparently unknown form of English because even when I am speaking I run into head-nodding gumbies that look like they know what I said but have no clue which makes them earning their paycheck questionable to me.:lol:

jmccr8

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psyche101
23 hours ago, Habitat said:

I think there is a strong resistance to such ideas from those with a carefully cultivated rational sense, but that really shouldn't be an issue, it does not lessen the utility of rational thinking, it just puts it into a larger perspective.

So are you going to get upset when I say these dreams violate science? 

It would violate the principle of causality, that an effect cannot occur before its cause. 

I know its wierd. Interestingly I've had such dreams myself, and I don't dream, so if I wake and remember something, I consider it a big deal. One even quite recent, but at least twice in my life I have dreamed something before it happened. Well, one as it was happening and once several months in advance, but realising the science tells me there has to be a better explanation than superstition. 

And that's why I completely believe you are telling me the truth. I just am not sure the solutions you have settled on are on the right path. There has to be a better answer. 

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Habitat
21 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

So are you going to get upset when I say these dreams violate science? 

It would violate the principle of causality, that an effect cannot occur before its cause. 

I know its wierd. Interestingly I've had such dreams myself, and I don't dream, so if I wake and remember something, I consider it a big deal. One even quite recent, but at least twice in my life I have dreamed something before it happened. Well, one as it was happening and once several months in advance, but realising the science tells me there has to be a better explanation than superstition. 

And that's why I completely believe you are telling me the truth. I just am not sure the solutions you have settled on are on the right path. There has to be a better answer. 

They might violate known science, but that might just be because our understanding is incomplete, I just don't know, other than to say I have had way too many such dreams to consider it something other than a kind of look into the future.

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psyche101
1 minute ago, Habitat said:

They might violate known science, but that might just be because our understanding is incomplete, I just don't know, other than to say I have had way too many such dreams to consider it something other than a kind of look into the future.

I can agree with that, but have no confidence in superstitious propositions. They just don't have a good track record. 

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and then
On 3/10/2019 at 2:31 PM, stevewinn said:

I guess they can hide it in the same way you hide the proof their hiding it. 

Other than to prevent panic, I can't imagine a truly scientific mind ever wanting to cover up or hide discoveries.  As to "how" you could hide it...do it like everyone else does these days.  Just deny it and that becomes reality.  The madness we're seeing propagated on the airwaves and in cyberspace used to be a perfect description for mental illness.  Today we call it "our truth".  :huh:

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the13bats


"Truth" is an absolute , many confuse "belief" "theory" with truth, of course a belief can of be true, but it can also be completly false.

An unproven theory is also basically just that unproven so not true.

The idea of anything dreams tea leaves or a loaded cat box giving precognition is at best belief not truth, but sime are too short sighted to see this.

I place basically zero credibilty on ancedotes where a person claims to have had a dream years ago that ended up fitting so perfectly a future event, they need to grasp that memory fades and reforms and since they didnt keep a dated record of the dream we dont know that they really had it to start with, if they really had precognition an of alleged future event that caused damage or loss of life that is a pretty evil person not to have mentioned the recognition until after the fact just for attention. But uts obvious that for some they want the atrention and praise if they were comfortable in their belief they wouldnt feel so insulted when doubted.

I respect the honest true beliver you can tell the ego driven attention junkies with big fragile egos by the way they attack and condesend at the doubter as if the objective eye cant see that their alleged beliefs are only in their mind with zero to back up their claims.

 

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ChrLzs
On 12/03/2019 at 5:31 PM, Habitat said:

Think ? Don't worry, I have done plenty of that. A without any predisposition to settle one way or the other. And how do you know it may have not have conferred an evolutionary advantage ? I have used it to financial advantage, and should have done much better, but for doubts of the reliability of what I was presented with. But the most convincing ones, in convincing me this is real, there was no advantage to be had.

Wow.  If ever there was a Whooosh post, that was it.   Here, I'll give you a little hint, if any creature could successfully predict future events (eg being eaten...) it would have a huge evolutionary advantage and would have proliferated and reproduced at an enormous rate.  That hasn't happened, not once, not ever across the aeons of earthly evolution, across all species / genera / classes / phyla etc.  It hasn't happened for a simple reason, there is no possible mechanism by which it is possible.  While I grant you we can't rule it out absolutely (science doesn't usually do that), we can rule it out effectively and beyond reasonable doubt, and reject it until any evidence arises.  Evidence campfire stories and your undoubtedly highly convincing financial story...

 

'Think' didn't work, don't know what else to suggest.  Maybe phone a friend?

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Essan

How dreams predict the future:

You are excited to be going to a concert by your favourite artist.  There are various songs you hope they will perform,   You dream you are at the concert.   The artist performs some of the songs you hope to hear. 

A few weeks later you attend the concert.  And some of the songs you dreamt were played actually are!

You must have dreamed about the future!  Right?  :unsure2: :rolleyes:

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Essan

Or, you dream about a place you know.  Something significant happens.

Years later something significant happens at the place you know.  You then recall the dream.  Not the details, just that you had a dream about something significant happening.  Your memory fills in the details based on what you have just seen (on TV) actually did happen .......   You now recall you dreamt that this exact thing would happen.   But you are really just a victim of your own memory.    It's like deja vu ....

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2101089-mystery-of-deja-vu-explained-its-how-we-check-our-memories/

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RabidMongoose
10 hours ago, psyche101 said:

So are you going to get upset when I say these dreams violate science? 

It would violate the principle of causality, that an effect cannot occur before its cause. 

I know its wierd. Interestingly I've had such dreams myself, and I don't dream, so if I wake and remember something, I consider it a big deal. One even quite recent, but at least twice in my life I have dreamed something before it happened. Well, one as it was happening and once several months in advance, but realising the science tells me there has to be a better explanation than superstition. 

And that's why I completely believe you are telling me the truth. I just am not sure the solutions you have settled on are on the right path. There has to be a better answer. 

You are about 150 years behind in your scientific knowledge.

With linear causation then causes can come before effects, and causes can come after effects. With non-linear causation then causes and effects can occur at the same time as each other regardless of how far apart they are such as with probabilistic causality.

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ChrLzs
9 hours ago, and then said:

Other than to prevent panic, I can't imagine a truly scientific mind ever wanting to cover up or hide discoveries.

Correct. It's not possible.  Apart from the reason below, science is largely NOT driven by the ebil gubmint, although parts of it are driven by profit motive and commercial interests.  Can't really avoid that - the dollars have to come from somewhere and there is only so much for 'pure' research.

Quote

As to "how" you could hide it...do it like everyone else does these days.  Just deny it and that becomes reality.  The madness we're seeing propagated on the airwaves and in cyberspace used to be a perfect description for mental illness.  Today we call it "our truth".  :huh:

Just curious how that would work across countries?  How does the USA keep Oz under control?  What about those that don't like each other?  Russia?  China?  Iceland?  Somalia?  Qatar?  For that matter, do they watch Youtube and stop amateur scientists from revealing secrets?

It takes a very special mindset to think that can happen...  Let's face it, even the presidents of some countries can't keep their financial misdemeanours (and mental derangement..) secret for more than a few years... :)

 

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Habitat
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ChrLzs said:

sWow.  If ever there was a Whooosh post, that was it.   Here, I'll give you a little hint, if any creature could successfully predict future events (eg being eaten...) it would have a huge evolutionary advantage and would have proliferated and reproduced at an enormous rate.  That hasn't happened, not once, not ever across the aeons of earthly evolution, across all species / genera / classes / phyla etc.  It hasn't happened for a simple reason, there is no possible mechanism by which it is possible.  While I grant you we can't rule it out absolutely (science doesn't usually do that), we can rule it out effectively and beyond reasonable doubt, and reject it until any evidence arises.  Evidence campfire stories and your undoubtedly highly convincing financial story...

 

'Think' didn't work, don't know what else to suggest.  Maybe phone a friend?

You are jumping to conclusions. Particularly as these dreams do seem to arrive unbidden, can't be summoned, and frequently show no information "survival" value, except perhaps this, that they alert the dreamer to the fact that in some way, the future is laid out already. And all of that is so counter-intuitive, as to bring the kind of reaction seen on these pages. My reaction is to conclude that these dreams are a mystery, but I am not going to lose any sleep over it, I might miss another dream !

Edited by Habitat
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Habitat
35 minutes ago, Essan said:

Or, you dream about a place you know.  Something significant happens.

Years later something significant happens at the place you know.  You then recall the dream.  Not the details, just that you had a dream about something significant happening.  Your memory fills in the details based on what you have just seen (on TV) actually did happen .......   You now recall you dreamt that this exact thing would happen.   But you are really just a victim of your own memory.    It's like deja vu ....

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2101089-mystery-of-deja-vu-explained-its-how-we-check-our-memories/

A thinly-veiled allusion to the story I told, I suspect. I am not a "victim" of anything other than a convincing demonstration of a true pre-cognitive dream. And I have had quite a few. The true scientific mindset would say, "I just don't know". But true to form of the usual suspects, they jump to the conclusion, that it cannot possibly be. I recalled this dream particularly well, because it seemed completely absurd and unlikely, and now I remember the remarkable congruity between the dreams details, and  what eventually transpired. The only cure is to have some of these dreams. I have a strong feeling the scoffer will never have one.

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Habitat
9 hours ago, the13bats said:

I place basically zero credibilty on ancedotes where a person claims to have had a dream years ago that ended up fitting so perfectly a future event,

Sir, your guesses are trumped by experience, you would be better off interrogating yourself as to why it needs to be denied so strenuously, rather than just left as a possibly "unexplained mystery".

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Habitat

I mentioned elsewhere on this site another dream, where I dreamt that a relative bought a house in a very particular location, but the sale fell through because it failed a building inspection. I told him about this dream, but he laughed, saying there was no way he would be coming back to the city to live. However, a few years later, he did return to the city, he did buy a house in that precise location ( the dream specified bay views), and he did pull out because a large balcony required extensive work, as reported by the building inspection. No value to me in that dream, other than perhaps to say, "take note, dreams can predict future events".

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Podo

I can't think of a reason why anyone would WANT to hide the existence of extraterrestrial life, really.

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the13bats

I recall many years ago watching a show i dont recall what it was but i do recall a line that stuck with me and it applies to people like habit,

Perhaps the type mental illness you have pervents you from comprehending that you have it.

Truth is i really dont care about your delusions i come here for entertainment and you are good for a laugh, which isnt the best reflection of me.

I get the feeling the impression from how you post, you tend to be insercure and dont feel special enough so you cling to your dreams are precognition of the future, isnt that a scary thought the future is dictated from habits subconscious mind, thankfully its only in your mind.

Youve poustured a lot but never offered any proof, yeah i know you have zero, not like that nameless relative is here to back up your tale.

In the end if you need that delusion to feel good and special then i will respect that.

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Habitat
6 minutes ago, the13bats said:

I recall many years ago watching a show i dont recall what it was but i do recall a line that stuck with me and it applies to people like habit,

Perhaps the type mental illness you have pervents you from comprehending that you have it.

Truth is i really dont care about your delusions i come here for entertainment and you are good for a laugh, which isnt the best reflection of me.

I get the feeling the impression from how you post, you tend to be insercure and dont feel special enough so you cling to your dreams are precognition of the future, isnt that a scary thought the future is dictated from habits subconscious mind, thankfully its only in your mind.

Youve poustured a lot but never offered any proof, yeah i know you have zero, not like that nameless relative is here to back up your tale.

In the end if you need that delusion to feel good and special then i will respect that.

Aren't you the one that was an avid bigfoot believer for decades ? And I have the "mental illness".....LOL. Sorry, not much of what you say does reflect well on you. The nameless relative knows the truth, you exhibit extreme cynicism, looking for some motive on my part to invent such stories, then throw in mental illness for a little insurance. Shame on you.

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TrumanB
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I mentioned elsewhere on this site another dream, where I dreamt that a relative bought a house in a very particular location, but the sale fell through because it failed a building inspection. I told him about this dream, but he laughed, saying there was no way he would be coming back to the city to live. However, a few years later, he did return to the city, he did buy a house in that precise location ( the dream specified bay views), and he did pull out because a large balcony required extensive work, as reported by the building inspection. No value to me in that dream, other than perhaps to say, "take note, dreams can predict future events".

I have no intention to convince sceptics in anything. They just lack experience. I have precognitive dreams for about 15 years ( and I run smth like a dream diary ). The tricky thing with them is that you don't know exactly when will it happen and how exactly will it happen...and there is also some symbolism in them. It's hard to explain how they work to the people who never had them and who ask questions like "why don't you change your future bla bla bla". I could write down many examples of different dreams I had about meeting some people, situations that occurred etc but I would be mocked as I was so far. It's their lost if they don't have them...but that's not my problem. Habitat, you and I can discuss this if you'd like, maybe on some other thread or on pm. I have some conclusions and would like to hear your opinion on that.

Edited by TrumanB

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Habitat
10 minutes ago, TrumanB said:

Habitat, you and I can discuss this if you'd like, maybe on some other thread or on pm. I have some conclusions and would like to hear your opinion on that.

It won't hurt to mention your ideas here. It might help others get an inkling of what is occurring, but I doubt it can be understood in rational terms.

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TrumanB

I have no intention to receive notes about "haha" reactions any more. You know that saying - don't cast pearls before swine.

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Piney
13 minutes ago, TrumanB said:

It's hard to explain how they work to the people who never had them and who ask questions like "why don't you change your future bla bla bla".

Because the future spiderwebs. It's not lineal and has side paths. So you get bits and pieces. Like only part of a puzzle.

 

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Habitat
3 minutes ago, TrumanB said:

I have no intention to receive notes about "haha" reactions any more. You know that saying - don't cast pearls before swine.

OK, then best send me a message, outlining your impressions.

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