UM-Bot 10,425 #1 Posted March 12, 2019 Intriguing footage of a sleeping octopus has suggested that cephalopods may have some concept of dreaming. https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/326217/sleeping-octopus-changes-color-as-it-dreams 12 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zep73 8,291 #2 Posted March 12, 2019 This begs further questions. What does it take to dream? Is imagination enough. Is imagination the same as calculation? Or does it take consciousness to dream? Before we can answer those, we can't attribute dreaming to primitive animals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Helen of Annoy 42,368 #3 Posted March 12, 2019 We need eye roll reaction button. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OverSword 58,200 #4 Posted March 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, sci-nerd said: This begs further questions. What does it take to dream? Is imagination enough. Is imagination the same as calculation? Or does it take consciousness to dream? Before we can answer those, we can't attribute dreaming to primitive animals. Octopi are not primitive. they solve sophisticated problems. Do you question that dogs dream too? 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skulduggery 1,028 #5 Posted March 12, 2019 Of course they dream. The dream-induced colors might be an evolutionary defense mechanism? You can't be off-guard and everything is hungry and sleep is good. Basically, a warning to leave it alone or it will give you a bad time. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zep73 8,291 #6 Posted March 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, OverSword said: Octopi are not primitive. they solve sophisticated problems. Do you question that dogs dream too? I suspect that dogs (and cats) dream. But I have no proof. That is why I think we need to determine the properties and requirements of dreaming, before we determine which animals do it. That is the scientific method, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OverSword 58,200 #7 Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, sci-nerd said: I suspect that dogs (and cats) dream. But I have no proof. That is why I think we need to determine the properties and requirements of dreaming, before we determine which animals do it. That is the scientific method, I've seen dogs doing what could only be dreaming. I don't need to hook electrodes up to tell me the obvious. 8 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Helen of Annoy 42,368 #8 Posted March 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, sci-nerd said: I suspect that dogs (and cats) dream. But I have no proof. That is why I think we need to determine the properties and requirements of dreaming, before we determine which animals do it. That is the scientific method, Here it is. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/201010/do-dogs-dream 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zep73 8,291 #9 Posted March 12, 2019 Just now, OverSword said: I've seen dogs doing what could only be dreaming. I don't need to hook electrodes up to tell me the obvious. It does not need to be electrodes. But it has to be more than presumption. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Helen of Annoy 42,368 #10 Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, OverSword said: I've seen dogs doing what could only be dreaming. I don't need to hook electrodes up to tell me the obvious. No one sane does, but they did it. Because apparently we need scientific proof of the most obvious too. Let me again - not at you, of course. I just... have to... all right, one more time and I might be done 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zep73 8,291 #11 Posted March 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said: Here it is. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/201010/do-dogs-dream Thanks. That is strong evidence! Never saw it before though, thus my scepticism. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zep73 8,291 #12 Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said: Because apparently we need scientific proof of the most obvious too. Yes we do. Because the most obvious might turn out to be totally opposite of what you expected. If we go back 100 years, it happened. We call it Quantum Mechanics. Edited March 12, 2019 by sci-nerd 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Space Commander Travis 50,164 #13 Posted March 12, 2019 aw, what a cute expression her little face 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seti42 1,475 #14 Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) I don't think dreaming necessarily has to be something that only 'sentient' humans do. It could very well be a byproduct of just having senses, needing to sleep, and having a (sufficiently advanced?) brain. Many creatures seem to dream. Pets and livestock, for example. I've been convinced many times that my cat has had dreams and even nightmares. Then again, the little guy sleeps with me every even slightly chilly night, LOL. He's woken me up displaying the same basic behaviors I display when woken up out of a dream/nightmare. I don't know how any of this could be tested without invasive (and probably disruptive) observations/procedures like electroencephalograms, brain activity imaging, tranquilizers, etc. though. PS: Octopuses seem to be relatively intelligent and expressive. At or at least near mammal and bird levels. That video clip certainly makes it LOOK like it is dreaming...Then again, I've also been primed to think that because of the article... Edited March 12, 2019 by Seti42 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mantis914 1,033 #15 Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said: No one sane does, but they did it. Because apparently we need scientific proof of the most obvious too. Let me again - not at you, of course. I just... have to... all right, one more time and I might be done Hatopus! Wow, why does it feel like it was a century ago that we all kept that one thread going with making up something from the poster above? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
third_eye 52,094 #16 Posted March 12, 2019 Maybe poor little Octo was just feeling a little cold on the tips of the tentacles ... ~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawken 8,167 #17 Posted March 12, 2019 2 hours ago, OverSword said: I've seen dogs doing what could only be dreaming. I don't need to hook electrodes up to tell me the obvious. I think dogs dream. My dog would be sleeping on the couch and she would start wagging her tail as if she was having a pleasant experience. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
'Walt' E. Kurtz 7,514 #18 Posted March 12, 2019 Does it dream of electronic sheep 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
third_eye 52,094 #19 Posted March 12, 2019 IN all honesty, this being a 'concept' of dreaming is rather an unfortunate turn of a phrase, I would have less concerns if it was presented as a 'capacity' for dreaming ~ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the13bats 14,012 #20 Posted March 13, 2019 SAL-9000 : Will I dream? Dr. Chandra : Of course you will. All intelligent beings dream. Nobody knows why. Perhaps you will dream of HAL... just as I often do. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nnicolette 2,051 #21 Posted March 13, 2019 I think dreaming is likely part of the process of sleep and restoring your body. I am willing to bet pretty much anything with a brain and a sleep mechanism dreams. It is pretty obvious when you see other animals dream... Kind of silly to think they don't. As silly as these sentience studies when they catch an animal in distress over a relatives death or something. Duh. How could you even think only people have feelings when we are practically all equipped with the same kind of nervous and input systems, eyes, ears, brains, stomachs etc its easier to spot the similarities than differences. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TripGun 223 #22 Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) You should see my dog having night terrors Edited March 14, 2019 by TripGun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the13bats 14,012 #23 Posted March 18, 2019 While i do believe animals dream i am highly skeptical they mourn like humans, mouring is a human construct, animals do not ponder or know what death is they might in the moment know someone is gone but they dont comprehend the person died and what that is, when you leave for work etc your pet doesnt ponder where you went and will you be back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raptor Witness 2,591 #24 Posted March 25, 2019 On 3/12/2019 at 3:47 PM, OverSword said: Octopi are not primitive. they solve sophisticated problems. Do you question that dogs dream too? Both of my chi's dream that they are doing all kinds of things. It's hilarious to watch. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites