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Sleeping octopus changes color as it 'dreams'

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sci-nerd

This begs further questions. What does it take to dream? Is imagination enough. Is imagination the same as calculation? Or does it take consciousness to dream?

Before we can answer those, we can't attribute dreaming to primitive animals.

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Helen of Annoy

We need eye roll reaction button.    

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OverSword
13 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

This begs further questions. What does it take to dream? Is imagination enough. Is imagination the same as calculation? Or does it take consciousness to dream?

Before we can answer those, we can't attribute dreaming to primitive animals.

Octopi are not primitive.  they solve sophisticated problems.  Do you question that dogs dream too?

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Skulduggery

Of course they dream. The dream-induced colors might be an evolutionary defense mechanism? You can't be off-guard and everything is hungry and sleep is good. Basically, a warning to leave it alone or it will give you a bad time. 

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sci-nerd
4 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Octopi are not primitive.  they solve sophisticated problems.  Do you question that dogs dream too?

I suspect that dogs (and cats) dream. But I have no proof.

That is why I think we need to determine the properties and requirements of dreaming, before we determine which animals do it.
That is the scientific method,

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OverSword
1 minute ago, sci-nerd said:

I suspect that dogs (and cats) dream. But I have no proof.

That is why I think we need to determine the properties and requirements of dreaming, before we determine which animals do it.
That is the scientific method,

I've seen dogs doing what could only be dreaming.  I don't need to hook electrodes up to tell me the obvious.

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Helen of Annoy
2 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

I suspect that dogs (and cats) dream. But I have no proof.

That is why I think we need to determine the properties and requirements of dreaming, before we determine which animals do it.
That is the scientific method,

Here it is.  

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/201010/do-dogs-dream

 

:rolleyes:

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sci-nerd
Just now, OverSword said:

I've seen dogs doing what could only be dreaming.  I don't need to hook electrodes up to tell me the obvious.

It does not need to be electrodes. But it has to be more than presumption.

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Helen of Annoy
1 minute ago, OverSword said:

I've seen dogs doing what could only be dreaming.  I don't need to hook electrodes up to tell me the obvious.

No one sane does, but they did it. Because apparently we need scientific proof of the most obvious too. 

Let me :rolleyes:  again - not at you, of course. I just... have to... all right, one more time and I might be done :rolleyes:

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sci-nerd
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Because apparently we need scientific proof of the most obvious too.

Yes we do. Because the most obvious might turn out to be totally opposite of what you expected.
If we go back 100 years, it happened. We call it Quantum Mechanics.

Edited by sci-nerd
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Vlad the Mighty

aw, what a cute expression her little face ^_^

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Seti42
Posted (edited)

I don't think dreaming necessarily has to be something that only 'sentient' humans do. It could very well be a byproduct of just having senses, needing to sleep, and having a (sufficiently advanced?) brain. Many creatures seem to dream. Pets and livestock, for example. I've been convinced many times that my cat has had dreams and even nightmares. Then again, the little guy sleeps with me every even slightly chilly night, LOL. He's woken me up displaying the same basic behaviors I display when woken up out of a dream/nightmare.

I don't know how any of this could be tested without invasive (and probably disruptive) observations/procedures like electroencephalograms, brain activity imaging, tranquilizers, etc. though.

PS: Octopuses seem to be relatively intelligent and expressive. At or at least near mammal and bird levels. That video clip certainly makes it LOOK like it is dreaming...Then again, I've also been primed to think that because of the article...

Edited by Seti42
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Mantis914
1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

No one sane does, but they did it. Because apparently we need scientific proof of the most obvious too. 

Let me :rolleyes:  again - not at you, of course. I just... have to... all right, one more time and I might be done :rolleyes:

Hatopus!  Wow, why does it feel like it was a century ago that we all kept that one thread going with making up something from the poster above?

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third_eye

Maybe poor little Octo was just feeling a little cold on the tips of the tentacles ...

~

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Hawken
2 hours ago, OverSword said:

I've seen dogs doing what could only be dreaming.  I don't need to hook electrodes up to tell me the obvious.

I think dogs dream. My dog would be sleeping on the couch and she would start wagging her tail as if she was having a pleasant experience.

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Impedancer

Does it dream of electronic sheep

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third_eye

IN all honesty, this being a 'concept' of dreaming is rather an unfortunate turn of a phrase, I would have less concerns if it was presented as a 'capacity' for dreaming

~

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the13bats

     SAL-9000 : Will I dream?

    Dr. Chandra : Of course you will. All intelligent beings dream. Nobody knows why. Perhaps you will dream of HAL... just as I often do.

  

 

 

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Nnicolette

I think dreaming is likely part of the process of sleep and restoring your body. I am willing to bet pretty much anything with a brain and a sleep mechanism dreams. It is pretty obvious when you see other animals dream... Kind of silly to think they don't. As silly as these sentience studies when they catch an animal in distress over a relatives death or something. Duh. How could you even think only people have feelings when we are practically all equipped with the same kind of nervous  and input systems, eyes, ears, brains, stomachs etc its easier to spot the similarities than differences. 

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TripGun
Posted (edited)

You should see my dog having night terrors

Edited by TripGun

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the13bats

While i do believe animals dream i am highly skeptical they mourn like humans, mouring is a human construct, animals do not ponder or know what death is they might in the moment know someone is gone but they dont comprehend the person died and what that is, when you leave for work etc your pet doesnt ponder where you went and will you be back.

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Raptor Witness
On 3/12/2019 at 3:47 PM, OverSword said:

Octopi are not primitive.  they solve sophisticated problems.  Do you question that dogs dream too?

Both of my chi's dream that they are doing all kinds of things.  It's hilarious to watch. 

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