What goes around comes around, karma?

[+Not A Rockstar]

The basic question of why some people believe "What goes around comes around" is interesting. It is my SO's favorite statement until it gets tossed at her for her behavior. Then she is all about "fairness" and how she "didn't know". I guess everyone else knows. She has gotten tired of my responses when she says it and doesn't say it anymore, but it lives on in her mind for sure.

Where SHE gets it, IDK. It might be a twisted form of Christianity's "bad ones get the hot seat, good ones get the air conditioning" idea for her as her notion of "Eastern" is New Jersey, frankly.

As a person who some think is way way too far into the spiritual view of everything, I pondered this topic in one of my blog posts. Trying to make sense of it hinges a lot on the notion of reincarnation. For sanity's sake and my own best views of life, I have decided to drop it and release it totally. Nothing owed to me, and I forgive and release whatever is owed to me for bad experiences I have had. That is my answer and it has been a slow process but a positive one all in all.

As a retired cop, however, I do have to say I worked in a very wealthy district for the first 5 years of my career. I was in on many, many really heart aching domestic situations that left me not at all envying the wealthy around me. I am one of those who would rather have real love than real trust funds.

A bit of money flow though would be nice LOL.

Bottom line, I think it does happen, just not in ways we see it ourselves most of the time - hence why I have opted to remove it from MY own life and spiritual posture. 

Just my thoughts, but really, you cannot ask this question and not have karma come up, as this is the essence of that ideology.

JMO.

[+joc]

9 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

The basic question of why some people believe "What goes around comes around" is interesting. It is my SO's favorite statement until it gets tossed at her for her behavior. Then she is all about "fairness" and how she "didn't know". I guess everyone else knows. She has gotten tired of my responses when she says it and doesn't say it anymore, but it lives on in her mind for sure.

Where SHE gets it, IDK. It might be a twisted form of Christianity's "bad ones get the hot seat, good ones get the air conditioning" idea for her as her notion of "Eastern" is New Jersey, frankly.

As a person who some think is way way too far into the spiritual view of everything, I pondered this topic in one of my blog posts. Trying to make sense of it hinges a lot on the notion of reincarnation. For sanity's sake and my own best views of life, I have decided to drop it and release it totally. Nothing owed to me, and I forgive and release whatever is owed to me for bad experiences I have had. That is my answer and it has been a slow process but a positive one all in all.

As a retired cop, however, I do have to say I worked in a very wealthy district for the first 5 years of my career. I was in on many, many really heart aching domestic situations that left me not at all envying the wealthy around me. I am one of those who would rather have real love than real trust funds.

A bit of money flow though would be nice LOL.

Bottom line, I think it does happen, just not in ways we see it ourselves most of the time - hence why I have opted to remove it from MY own life and spiritual posture. 

Just my thoughts, but really, you cannot ask this question and not have karma come up, as this is the essence of that ideology.

JMO.

I have a saying:  Karma isn't always instant...but it always is.  But this is what I'm talking about...Jerk #1 flies around me in the rain in heavy traffic.  He p***ed me off so I want him to get pulled over and get a ticket!  I don't really want him to go into a Hydro-planing 360 at 80mph in the rain in heavy traffic...but...the odds are that both will occur to him at some point.  Behavior happens...and consequences of behavior happen.  But it is my Wanting him to get a ticket where Karma raises it's little head.  I have a strong desire for him to pay for something I consider a sin...i.e...he violated my space...so...I want him to pay.  The upside of all of that is that people who have a tendency not to care about other people are generally miserable in their own lives and full of stress.  What kind of a payback could I wish for that would be worse than that?  It's all about squaring things up when we have no ability to do it on our own...so...Karma...will handle it for us!  It's no different than praying for it to rain.

[Aquila King]

5 hours ago, the13bats said:

so ive noticed a lot of people more than i would have thought do subscribe to the idea if someone does them wrong or anyone wrong they will get what they deserve, where does this idea generate from?

The belief in the afterlife. Notice that they almost always have to extrapolate it out to "the next life" or some "eternal Hell" of some kind in order to find any real justice.

Most humans know (since it's blatantly obvious) that people in this life don't just naturally get what they deserve.

[Aquila King]

2 hours ago, Podo said:

The idea of Karma is a very nice one, but I think it only makes sense if you look at life as a series of reincarnations, like the Hindus and Buddhists do.

Sorry, but in that context I have to disagree.

The reincarnation view of Karma is the ultimate victim blaming tool ever invented by man. Everything bad that ever happens to you ever, you deserved it from something you did in a past life.

Child gets raped? Karma. Illness and disease? Karma. House burns down? Karma.

It's why places like India have some of the greatest levels of economic inequality and a social caste system. They're mostly Hindu and justify their apathy towards the needy because those who're suffering simply deserve what's coming to them.

They use Karma as an excuse to justify not doing anything.

I agree with the basic sentiment that "what goes around comes around" is a good idea in principle, but in the context of reincarnation beliefs, it can often have some disastrous results...

[Golden Duck]

Karma is a part of our common sense and is an amalgam of such things confirmation bias, tall poppy syndrome, and the gambler's fallacy. However, "nice guys finish last" and "all's fair in love and war" also form part of our common sense.  Common sense isn't always the right tool for the job.

@joc has given a good example of a road user engaging in reckless behaviour. We intuitively expect that the reckless one will eventually experience some adverse consequence.

Batman tells us that 'crime doesn't pay'.  According to Robbing banks is bad business, Karl Kruzelnicki explains that Batman's assertion is not entirely based on belief.  If we focus on the risk of getting caught, we can see that the median number of jobs a robber may get away with, is two.

Karma might be a sense of satisfaction we feel when our own common sense or intuitive risk-management ideology appears to be more successful than someone else's.

 

[jmccr8]

5 hours ago, travelnjones said:

Looking at this world and coming up with the concept of Karma is crazy.  Wishing for it, I understand, but not looking how things go and suggesting Karma is taking place.  

Hi Travelnjones

I tend to think that Karma is something that one can personally deliver to the receiver, having potentially been in that position on a few occasions.

jmccr8

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Nothing owed to me, and I forgive and release whatever is owed to me for bad experiences I have had. That is my answer and it has been a slow process but a positive one all in all.

THIS^  The first time I got some sobriety through AA, it was because I learned to pray for people I really did NOT like.  My sponsor and other old timers said to take that step of praying for them and asking that they be given all the good things you'd like to have in your own life.  To do it every day, whether you meant it or not, for 30 days and that by the time that month was up, you'd find that you DID mean it.  It worked.

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, the13bats said:

The prefix pseudo- is used to mark something that superficially appears to be one thing, but is something else.

 

skep·tic
/ˈskeptik/
noun

    a person inclined to question or doubt accepted opinions.

 

Now run sling George a mist needs your attention

From Wikipedia: Pseudoskepticism (or pseudoscepticism) is a philosophical or scientific position which appears to be that of skepticism or scientific skepticism but which in reality fails to be so.

Hence, a skeptic that wishes the paranormal to be true but still  maintains his skepticism is NOT a pseudoskeptic  but actually a true skeptic.

Your opening line was: "In case you dont know my stance im a pseudoskeptic, i want to believe but need Proof."

The irony of this is that you actually insulted your position by calling it pseudoskepticism and I was pointing out your misunderstanding of the word 'pseudoskeptic'. 

[Habitat]

I'm surprised how many people who have been nasty to me in my lifetime, have died young. They haven't been great in number, I don't do things that causes such reactions, maybe being a bit of a soft touch can bring out bad behaviour, but enough have dropped off the perch, I am half-expecting a knock at the door ! 

[openozy]

I believe in Karma,everyone that did me a lousy deed has been paid back,usually quickly.If it doesn't happen quick enough I give it a nudge,so you could still call it Karma.

[+and-then]

12 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I'm surprised how many people who have been nasty to me in my lifetime, have died young. They haven't been great in number, I don't do things that causes such reactions, maybe being a bit of a soft touch can bring out bad behaviour, but enough have dropped off the perch, I am half-expecting a knock at the door ! 

Hey,Buddy!  I hope you're having a GREAT day!  Anything I can do to help, just let me know 

[Golden Duck]

52 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

...

It's why places like India have some of the greatest levels of economic inequality and a social caste system. They're mostly Hindu and justify their apathy towards the needy because those who're suffering simply deserve what's coming to them.

...

 

Have you been to India?  How many Hindu's do you know?

[+joc]

1 hour ago, Golden Duck said:

I can recall a couple of times where someone blew my doors off and over the hill got a ticket!  Sooooo Sweeeeeet! 

[Guyver]

Revenge is a dish best served cold.  

[Aquila King]

44 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Have you been to India?  How many Hindu's do you know?

If you're suggesting my lack of personal experience here somehow negates statistical fact, then you're sadly mistaken. 

I mean that's like saying: "Have you been to North Korea? How many North Koreans do you know? None? You've never been there? Well then you can't say they live under an oppressive regime."

[Habitat]

53 minutes ago, and then said:

Hey,Buddy!  I hope you're having a GREAT day!  Anything I can do to help, just let me know 

Cancers got them. There used to be a theory that people with aggressive personalities were more prone to cancer, but I'm not sure if that idea has much currency these days.

[Golden Duck]

1 hour ago, Aquila King said:

If you're suggesting my lack of personal experience here somehow negates statistical fact, then you're sadly mistaken. 

I mean that's like saying: "Have you been to North Korea? How many North Koreans do you know? None? You've never been there? Well then you can't say they live under an oppressive regime."

To what statistical fact are you referring?  That the second most populous country with the 11th largest economy manages to have a GINI index (and rank) of 35.1% (101) compared to: USA  41.5 (58); China 42.2 (54); and, Australia 34.7 (103).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

What metrics do you have to derive an apathy index?  What statistics do you have for each discrete caste?  How do you quantitatively support your marginalisation of an entire culture?

How can you even report on the black market economy that exists in Dharavi? By Western standards the living and working standards are unacceptable - but how do you value social interdependency and support?  Is gentrification the solution - by constructing apartments where you destroyed "togetherments"?

The Golden Temple - where Sikhs give free food 24 hours a day - further weakens this idea of cultural apathy.

My personal experience is with a Ksatriya family - but, the mother was raised Brahmin and went to a Catholic School in communist Kerala.  When we visited India the mother, and her sister, almost without fail gave to the beggars in the street.  At an individual level, this hardly supports the belief that the needy deserve their suffering.

What you describe apathy, I would describe as an acute awareness about their legacy.  So much so that inter-caste marriage can happen.

It's reminiscent of the anecdote of Gandhi and the boy addicted to sugar...

Quote

There is a story of a woman in India who was upset that her son was eating too much sugar. No matter how much she chided him, he continued to satisfy his sweet tooth. Totally frustrated, she decided to take her son to see his great hero Mahatma Gandhi.

She approached the great leader respectfully and said, "Sir, my son eats too much sugar. It is not good for his health. Would you please advise him to stop eating it?”

Gandhi listened to the woman carefully, turned and spoke to her son, "Go home and come back in two weeks.”

The woman looked perplexed and wondered why he had not asked the boy to stop eating sugar. She took the boy by the hand and went home.

Two weeks later she returned, boy in hand. Gandhi motioned for them to come forward. He looked directly at the boy and said, "Boy, you should stop eating sugar. It is not good for your health.”

The boy nodded and promised he would not continue this habit any longer.

The boy’s mother turned to Gandhi and asked, "Why didn’t you tell him that two weeks ago when I brought him here to see you?”

Gandhi smiled, "Mother, two weeks ago I was still eating sugar myself.”

1

Statistics are like bikinis - what they show is interesting but what they hide is vital.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Golden Duck

[Piney]

4 hours ago, Aquila King said:

It's why places like India have some of the greatest levels of economic inequality and a social caste system. They're mostly Hindu and justify their apathy towards the needy because those who're suffering simply deserve what's coming to them.

 

Talking about things you don't know about in another effort to bash religion? Like where you had no medical knowledge yet spouted some crap about circumcisions. 

 

1 hour ago, Golden Duck said:

The Golden Temple - where Sikhs give free food 24 hours a day - further weakens this idea of cultural apathy.

I've crossed many a blade with Khalsa. They consider themselves brothers to the Shorin Sohei.  

[Podo]

17 hours ago, Aquila King said:

Sorry, but in that context I have to disagree.

The reincarnation view of Karma is the ultimate victim blaming tool ever invented by man. Everything bad that ever happens to you ever, you deserved it from something you did in a past life.

Child gets raped? Karma. Illness and disease? Karma. House burns down? Karma.

It's why places like India have some of the greatest levels of economic inequality and a social caste system. They're mostly Hindu and justify their apathy towards the needy because those who're suffering simply deserve what's coming to them.

They use Karma as an excuse to justify not doing anything.

I agree with the basic sentiment that "what goes around comes around" is a good idea in principle, but in the context of reincarnation beliefs, it can often have some disastrous results...

That's exactly my point. It can only make sense if you're under the idiotic belief that there are multiple lives, and that everything bad that happens to you is somehow deserved. It's ridiculous. Reread my post, because all yours does is agree with mine.

[+joc]

23 hours ago, Habitat said:

I'm surprised how many people who have been nasty to me in my lifetime, have died young. They haven't been great in number, I don't do things that causes such reactions, maybe being a bit of a soft touch can bring out bad behaviour, but enough have dropped off the perch, I am half-expecting a knock at the door ! 

I remember something a girl wrote in my highschool yearbook.  The only thing I remember actually.  Remember the good and forget the bad.  I kind of took that to heart.  I just forgot the bad.

I'm surprised how many people wake up every morning with a life time of bad memories that they carry around with them like a photo album, sitting on their couch, turning all the pages ....

....remember the good...forget the bad...

Or ....as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ said....sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

[+joc]

 

[Mr Walker]

On 14/03/2019 at 5:39 AM, the13bats said:

In case you dont know my stance im a pseudoskeptic, i want to believe but need Proof.

So ive been up too long and my days and nights sleep is off, i am all ADD OCD, and had a bad experence today which set off my nerves so i run to burn it off making a post because my overtired mind is so racy.

My grandmother was superstitious to a degree, i was raised by her and she while was a bit vauge she tried to tell me not ever to get very mad at a person, let things go because all her life she saw people who wronged her have really bad stuff happen to them, i did and do write it off as coincidence.

She passed in her early 90s in 90s but of course i remember her daily, and many people i have talked to really will push the idea of what many people label "karma" although i do not believe my gmother even knew the word,

so ive noticed a lot of people more than i would have thought do subscribe to the idea if someone does them wrong or anyone wrong they will get what they deserve, where does this idea generate from?

Sure i have had people wrong me and seen bad happen to them but ive seen people wrong me or just bad in general live charmed lives. Personally i dont want anyone to come to harm not my way, i am curious though why some people really believe what goes around comes back on you, i just dont see it.

In general every action has a consequence A person who is good, honest, hardworking etc will gain a reputation in their community which will be of great benefit to them in harder times.

A person who lies steals or is unpleasant will find life in their community much harder Of course the smaller the community the more true this is But everyone has a specific community around them who deals with them Friends family work place etc  

Another place this works is with your credit rating Do the right thing and you will have an excellent rating and be able to obtain credit more easily and more cheaply Do the wrong thing and credit can become impossible to access 

[Mr Walker]

On 14/03/2019 at 11:14 AM, Aquila King said:

The belief in the afterlife. Notice that they almost always have to extrapolate it out to "the next life" or some "eternal Hell" of some kind in order to find any real justice.

Most humans know (since it's blatantly obvious) that people in this life don't just naturally get what they deserve.

Gotta disagree. I would say that 90% plus of people get exactly what they deserve. It might not be what we believe they deserve, but it is a result of the people they are. 

[the13bats]

Mr walker,

Thanks, while i fully grasp what you are saying and its more prosiac than how grandma said it i do not see it that way with a few examples that reflect your posts, 

In my hobby of car crafting i have seen countless examples and have 3 good personal ones of guys who rear ended me big time, and it wasnt just my opinion, many others agreed it was a cheesedick dbag things  they did. In one case i lost a buddy of 30 years,

All 3 who do not know each other and believe they were right in the ways they cheated me or didnt come thru and yet blame me saying im in the wrong for not liking the way they cheatrd me, to the point of them playing victim or just cussing and making threats.

All 3 still behave this way and do others as they did me, all 3 boast how great life is and it appears to be true, so your theories didnt apply there, perhaps im just very unlucky.

[the13bats]

On 3/13/2019 at 9:38 PM, Habitat said:

I'm surprised how many people who have been nasty to me in my lifetime, have died young. They haven't been great in number, I don't do things that causes such reactions, maybe being a bit of a soft touch can bring out bad behaviour, but enough have dropped off the perch, I am half-expecting a knock at the door ! 

^^^^ you sound like my grandmother there and it reminds me how i thought she had a bit too much glee in how a person who just upset her went on to great harm or death.

On 3/13/2019 at 10:46 PM, Habitat said:

Cancers got them. There used to be a theory that people with aggressive personalities were more prone to cancer, but I'm not sure if that idea has much currency these days.

I wonder i recall hearing that too, the last fellow who cheated me is the most anger filled hostile fellow ive had the misfortune to have crossed paths with in 30 plus years and i worked in the club band music biz,  im surprised hes not in jail or a guy like him hasnt fixed it for him but no, this guy seems to live a charmed life.

 

 

On 3/13/2019 at 9:27 PM, papageorge1 said:

From Wikipedia: Pseudoskepticism (or pseudoscepticism) is a philosophical or scientific position which appears to be that of skepticism or scientific skepticism but which in reality fails to be so.

Hence, a skeptic that wishes the paranormal to be true but still  maintains his skepticism is NOT a pseudoskeptic  but actually a true skeptic.

Your opening line was: "In case you dont know my stance im a pseudoskeptic, i want to believe but need Proof."

The irony of this is that you actually insulted your position by calling it pseudoskepticism and I was pointing out your misunderstanding of the word 'pseudoskeptic'. 

People, george isnt getting enough attention can everyone say "howdy" at george ges feeling left out.

George, i am not musunderstanding and cant help it if you cant grasp that,  this smoke and mirrors is worse than your thinking everthing presented is paranormal, dont you have a mist, orb or swarm of gnats to go hail as undeniable Proof of ghosts?