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the13bats

What goes around comes around, karma?

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Ruby04
On 15/03/2019 at 5:36 PM, Mr Walker said:

Gotta disagree. I would say that 90% plus of people get exactly what they deserve. It might not be what we believe they deserve, but it is a result of the people they are. 

90% get what they deserve? 

Ok so people who constantly have crap or abusive relationships deserve them? 

 

Or those of us who finally start having things go well then have crap happen deserve it? 

 

Those of of us who don’t cheat, steal, try to not harm others and avoid lying deserve it? 

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Aquila King
4 minutes ago, Ruby04 said:

90% get what they deserve? 

Ok so people who constantly have crap or abusive relationships deserve them? 

 

Or those of us who finally start having things go well then have crap happen deserve it? 

 

Those of of us who don’t cheat, steal, try to not harm others and avoid lying deserve it? 

I'd like to know what all the 4 year olds sold into sex slavery for the rest of their lives did to deserve it.

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Ruby04
Just now, Aquila King said:

I'd like to know what all the 4 year olds sold into sex slavery for the rest of their lives did to deserve it.

EXACTLY what I’m on about or even a baby the most innocent being. 

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Aquila King
1 minute ago, Ruby04 said:

EXACTLY what I’m on about or even a baby the most innocent being. 

I just don't subscribe to the philosophy that this world is naturally or inherently inclined towards fairness, justice, equality, etc. You can't just assume it exists. You have to actually make this world fair and just, etc.

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Mr Walker
6 hours ago, Ruby04 said:

90% get what they deserve? 

Ok so people who constantly have crap or abusive relationships deserve them? 

 

Or those of us who finally start having things go well then have crap happen deserve it? 

 

Those of of us who don’t cheat, steal, try to not harm others and avoid lying deserve it? 

 If you do NOT do the things in your last sentence then your life will be much better than  person who DOES  cheat steal and harm others 

Yep, like it or not, the law  of natural consequence means  that almost everyone almost all the time lives the life they "deserve " Deserve may be the wrong word.

I don't mean it in a judgemental way, but a  logical way.  ALL our  actions and even  our thoughts create consequences for every human being  

Why is a person  in an abusive relationship why haven't they chosen to end it or to do something  about it  (and yes i know that such decisions may come at a high cost, but they are still available 

You cant do much if you are kidnapped by the lords army and forced to be child soldier but even there you do have choices 

I dont know why crap happens to you,  In my life, every bad thing has been the result of a certain bad decision or set of bad decisions 

Eg we chose to live in a remote farm home for 20 years because we loved the isolation and lifestyle,  We knew there was a small risk of bushfire, one having swept around the house in the late 1970s 

We lived there, did not do everything we could have done to protect ourselves and eventually lost everything in a bushfire in 2005.  BUT we were fully insured and the way we behaved saved our lives where others lost their's    

We can pick the people we live with and deal with, and if we pick wisely we reduce the danger of harm to ourselves

We can obey the law, and if we do we greatly reduce risks to ourselves

**** happens to good people and to smart people,   but it happens a lot more to bad people and dumb people   

Edited by Mr Walker

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Mr Walker
6 hours ago, Aquila King said:

I'd like to know what all the 4 year olds sold into sex slavery for the rest of their lives did to deserve it.

They make up the 10% who had limited options.  Most people however, especially those in the west or other  developed countries get the life that results from their choices Eg to leave school early and get a job (this might mean you end up a highly paid and skilled plumber, but it might also mean you end up unemployed for most of your life. The difference depends on the subsequent choices you also make )

Children are the exception. By nature and law the y are the most vulnerable and with the least rights,  yet even they have some power over their lives and the choices they make.  

I know many people, as young as 12 or 13, who made radical choices such as leaving home or entering a relationship,  because they wished to be in charge of their own lives and were prepared to pay the substantial costs involved in achieving this.  

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Ruby04
16 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

 If you do NOT do the things in your last sentence then your life will be much better than  person who DOES  cheat steal and harm others 

Yep, like it or not, the law  of natural consequence means  that almost everyone almost all the time lives the life they "deserve " Deserve may be the wrong word.

I don't mean it in a judgemental way, but a  logical way.  ALL our  actions and even  our thoughts create consequences for every human being  

Why is a person  in an abusive relationship why haven't they chosen to end it or to do something  about it  (and yes i know that such decisions may come at a high cost, but they are still available 

You cant do much if you are kidnapped by the lords army and forced to be child soldier but even there you do have choices 

I dont know why crap happens to you,  In my life, every bad thing has been the result of a certain bad decision or set of bad decisions 

Eg we chose to live in a remote farm home for 20 years because we loved the isolation and lifestyle,  We knew there was a small risk of bushfire, one having swept around the house in the late 1970s 

We lived there, did not do everything we could have done to protect ourselves and eventually lost everything in a bushfire in 2005.  BUT we were fully insured and the way we behaved saved our lives where others lost their's    

We can pick the people we live with and deal with, and if we pick wisely we reduce the danger of harm to ourselves

We can obey the law, and if we do we greatly reduce risks to ourselves

**** happens to good people and to smart people,   but it happens a lot more to bad people and dumb people   

Ok so by your logic my ex going behind my back to start the plans of building a house without me, then him raising a fist to punch me when I found out what he planned and for telling him to leave. That was my bad decision?

 

Family members and friends who were abused at different ages (INCLUDING CHILDREN!) that was their bad decisions? 

 

You know NOTHING of what it takes for someone to leave an abusive relationship, I’ve had family try leaving and almost be killed for leaving.

 

I DONT cheat or steal and avoid lying.

Simply because:  I don’t see the point in cheating. Stealing isn’t worth it. 

Lying avoid because it’s easier to keep track of the truth. 

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Mr Walker
47 minutes ago, Ruby04 said:

Ok so by your logic my ex going behind my back to start the plans of building a house without me, then him raising a fist to punch me when I found out what he planned and for telling him to leave. That was my bad decision?

 

Family members and friends who were abused at different ages (INCLUDING CHILDREN!) that was their bad decisions? 

 

You know NOTHING of what it takes for someone to leave an abusive relationship, I’ve had family try leaving and almost be killed for leaving.

 

I DONT cheat or steal and avoid lying.

Simply because:  I don’t see the point in cheating. Stealing isn’t worth it. 

Lying avoid because it’s easier to keep track of the truth. 

No I dont know your life well enough to comment 

BUT, using my life to answer  

I would never have married a violent  person or one whose ethics moralities etc were different to my own  I spent 5 years getting to know my wife from the time i met her until we married  (and indeed  until we entered a sexual relationship)  i checked out her parents to see what the y were like and all her family.

  I would have either sought counselling or walked out at the first sign of violence ( No I am not saying these were choices available to you It is what I would have done)

You are a victim of others BUT how you respond and react is entirely up to you 

Children have little or no power but generally SOME adult could have intervened to stop the abuse.

So it is never a child's fault but sometimes a responsible adult could have done more  

My wife and i spent over 30 years providing a home and refuge for children and teenagers, including mothers as young as 15.

Some of their problems were indeed the result of their own choices such as a refusal to accept  loving parental  control of their behaviours eg wanting to have sex or take drugs aged 14  and leaving home when their parents tried to stop them   but still the y had little power and required protection   

As i said; By not cheating or lying, your life is immeasurably better, and will always  continue to be better, than the life of a person  who cheats and lies 

If you were a cheater or liar your other problems would not go away, you would just have a lot more new ones 

 

I am not well placed to comment but if it was me I would look at the good/positive and bright sides to your life and begin now to make choices designed to improve the rest of your life which hopefully will be many more decades 

I have one niece, now almost 50, who had a horrendous life as a yong woman Pregnant and kicked out of home  in her mid teens,  abusive, drug taking, and criminal husbands and fathers to her children. A real struggle in her 30s and forties  to get an education raise her 3 kids and 4 grand-kids and also earn an living. She sent her kids to private schools while a single mother and we helped her, where we could, financially 

For the last 10 years she has been in a loving relationship with a jet black  Nigerian bloke (Australian citizen)  who is kind, loving, gentle and supportive Life can still be a struggle but her efforts are beginning to pay off.

Your life does not have to be how it is now,  in 10 or 20 years time   

Edited by Mr Walker

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Ruby04
6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

No I dont know your life well enough to comment 

To that line I can’t help but laugh, you don’t know well enough to comment on mine or others life. 

You are a RANDOM person on the internet, not friends with myself or others. 

 

However there are about 6-7 UM members who actually do know me and 2 of them know me well due to friendships. 

Those 2 know more about me then you ever would. 

 

Back on topic karma is a nice thought however it doesn’t work like that in life, 

if it did more people would learn from mistakes

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Mr Walker
29 minutes ago, Ruby04 said:

To that line I can’t help but laugh, you don’t know well enough to comment on mine or others life. 

You are a RANDOM person on the internet, not friends with myself or others. 

 

However there are about 6-7 UM members who actually do know me and 2 of them know me well due to friendships. 

Those 2 know more about me then you ever would. 

 

Back on topic karma is a nice thought however it doesn’t work like that in life, 

if it did more people would learn from mistakes

Karma works even for stupid people.

However they may be unaware that this is why their life is as it is.

  I dont mean karma in the religiosity eastern sense, just that all  thoughts and actions have consequences, CREATING our karma

So we agree i don't know you  but i was answering the question you opened your post with.  ie 

Ok so by your logic my ex going behind my back to start the plans of building a house without me, then him raising a fist to punch me when I found out what he planned and for telling him to leave. That was my bad decision?

in the only way possible (by explaining how I would  see this if it happened to me) 

Given the little info available from you  I would probably have acted just as you did.  But i would see it as a good, positive and necessary choice, allowing me to move on with my life

 

 

Edited by Mr Walker

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Reignite
On 3/13/2019 at 11:47 PM, the13bats said:

Perhaps i never should have included "karma" i was using it as a label of what i gathered it means to people who seem to believe strongly what goes around comes around, and that is karma, i wasnt talking in the Buddhist sense or definition or reincarnation.

While i still believe aztek nailed it on the being done wrong side, i see the positive side a bit ego driven many times, saying ive done right by others and my good rewards flowed...are you boasting? Or suggesting you only did right to others for reward or out of fear?

I do right by others not to brag and not expecting it to boomerang i do it because to me it is "right".

I made the thread really to see if anyone would jump in with a closed mindset like my gmother had, no one really seems to seems most people so far more or less look at it as i do.

 

 

Then what do you mean? Karma is a Sanskrit word and should be understood according to the Indian philosophies in which it is used as a technical term. The literal translation of karma is either “action” or “result”. In a general metaphysical sense, it's all about balance. It's kind of like a seesaw. When you want to obtain certain results, you have to perform some kind of action; an action strong enough to overcome the force that opposes you from obtaining those results. This symbolizes you sitting on a seesaw which in turn goes down to the ground. In order to restore balance, the seesaw must come up again. That's balance. That's karma.

However, keep in mind that every philosophy (Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism) has a different flavour of understanding and interpreting karma. Karma usually only defines the technical interpretation of the process (of disturbing and restoring balance), not the actual result, as in, the fate of mankind.

It's not about left or right, good or wrong, past or future. It's about two opposing forces.

Edited by Reignite
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GoldenWolf
16 hours ago, Ruby04 said:

90% get what they deserve? 

Ok so people who constantly have crap or abusive relationships deserve them? 

 

Or those of us who finally start having things go well then have crap happen deserve it? 

 

Those of of us who don’t cheat, steal, try to not harm others and avoid lying deserve it? 

Victim blaming is a hallmark of psychopaths.

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Aquila King
32 minutes ago, GoldenWolf said:

Victim blaming is a hallmark of psychopaths.

I was gonna respond to @Mr Walker's hateful rants above, but I'd say that ^ sentence sums it up quite beautifully.

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Mr Walker
8 hours ago, GoldenWolf said:

Victim blaming is a hallmark of psychopaths.

Its interesting that you saw it that way when i explicitly explained  that it is not victim blaming.   

ie  there are a few things we cannot control in our lives But most we can control.

Some people  are  genuine victims of other people or of nature (although i think victim is an unfair word which disempowers  such people)

However, some people  CHOOSE to remain in situations where they are being harmed (or where there is significant risk of harm)   While I can understand and even empathise with them,  I recognise that the y have other choices, hard as those choices may be.  Some people ARE victims because they choose to remain victims 

As dangerous as a psychopath id a human being who acts on beliefs and emotional responses rather than on  logical thought, evaluation of actual data, and planing optimal choices

They do what they think is right, and what FEELS good and right to them from an emotional pov.,  rather than acting to produce the best result possible without being so affected by emotional responses that they cause more harm.

One example 

It feels right and good to let as many refugees (or indeed any immigrants)  into a country as one can. But you cant be governed by that good feeling  You have to look at how many can be cared for, assimilated taught your language etc.   and how many the country can accommodate, before the social and economic cost begins to break the county apart.   

 

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Ruby04
3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

However, some people  CHOOSE to remain in situations where they are being harmed (or where there is significant risk of harm)   While I can understand and even empathise with them,  I recognise that the y have other choices, hard as those choices may be.  Some people ARE victims because they choose to remain victims 

 

An abuse victim stays due to fear (for themselves, their family, friends or that the abuser will harm themselves) or belief the person will change. 

Its easy to say oh they have help and ways out, if you haven’t been there first hand or witnessed it first hand.

 

21 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Children have little or no power but generally SOME adult could have intervened to stop the abuse.

 Not always, often that child is told you tell and I’ll hurt you or your family or no one will believe you or they’ve been groomed into thinking it’s normal what’s happening to them. 

An adult can not step in unless they suspect something, the child says something or something is seen. 

 

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Mr Walker
57 minutes ago, Ruby04 said:

An abuse victim stays due to fear (for themselves, their family, friends or that the abuser will harm themselves) or belief the person will change. 

Its easy to say oh they have help and ways out, if you haven’t been there first hand or witnessed it first hand.

 

 Not always, often that child is told you tell and I’ll hurt you or your family or no one will believe you or they’ve been groomed into thinking it’s normal what’s happening to them. 

An adult can not step in unless they suspect something, the child says something or something is seen. 

 

And i have.

As a protector and refuge,  and as an uncle to abused children.   As a man who has protected women from their partners and taken them to refuges or provided them with a home in our own home  in some cases for years at other times only temporarily. 

It is true the choices can be hard, but they  exist. 

Still, generally an adult could have intervened. Australia is a bit unique in this. We have huge numbers of children taken from  parents, sometimes at birth,  and put in state care, often on very slim evidences, just to ensure the safety of a child  There are about 50000 children in state care representing about 1% of ALL children 

Modern practice is to teach even very young children that, when they feel bad or uncomfortable, to tell others, and to KEEP telling them until the pain, or discomfort, or hurt/bad feeling, stops 

But children  a re less responsible for their lives choices and outcomes than an adult because they have less power freedom  knowledge or choice.  That is is why they require the most protection, with women running a close second. 

Edited by Mr Walker

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LightAngel
On 13.3.2019 at 8:09 PM, the13bats said:

 

she tried to tell me not ever to get very mad at a person, let things go because all her life she saw people who wronged her have really bad stuff happen to them

 

 

 

Your grandmother sounds wise.

 

 

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Coil
On 13.03.2019 at 10:09 PM, the13bats said:

so ive noticed a lot of people more than i would have thought do subscribe to the idea if someone does them wrong or anyone wrong they will get what they deserve, where does this idea generate from?

If you meant a situation when you did not cause a person evil and he causes you, then there are a lot of people who do this using our weakness, lack of information, trust.Maybe it meant aztec on the first page. To be human is generally to be a weak being.

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RabidMongoose
On ‎16‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 6:55 PM, the13bats said:

Rabid, while i believe i see your point way down in there somewhere. If you knew me you would see just how off you were.....

We all choose what we are and become in life.

The universe knows our thoughts and mirrors them back to us with the experiences we have. So if you spend a lot of time wishing you were rich the universe mirrors that back by sending you lots of experiences which continue to make you wish you were rich. So the trick with that one is to wish you were poor (and stack getting rich further in your favour by including others ones too like wishing you were insignificant).

I wish gets I wish back, I wish I wasn't gets I wish I wasn't back. I am gets I am back, I am not gets I am not back.

The question is can something we assume to be fixed for our lives be altered with these Laws of Attraction? Can someone who has lost both legs get them back as an example. I have never tried anything like that. With everything I have done it has been with things that I considered could be changed.

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the13bats

Rabid, thanks you removed any doubts i had about you.

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