esoteric_toad Posted March 14, 2019 #1 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Hi, I am a skeptic but from time to time I venture onto the net to see if anyone has anything that could remotely be interesting/intriguing. Realizing that the internet is overflowing with junk it is difficult to find anything that is even convincing in a "realistic" way. With all the "ghost hunters" out there I was wondering if anyone has any videos and whatnot that cannot be easily explained away. If so, post a link! If anything it could be fun just to pick them apart 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted March 14, 2019 #2 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, esoteric_toad said: Hi, I am a skeptic but from time to time I venture onto the net to see if anyone has anything that could remotely be interesting/intriguing. Realizing that the internet is overflowing with junk it is difficult to find anything that is even convincing in a "realistic" way. With all the "ghost hunters" out there I was wondering if anyone has any videos and whatnot that cannot be easily explained away. If so, post a link! If anything it could be fun just to pick them apart The question ALWAYS becomes 'who is the judge' in these cases! Edited March 14, 2019 by papageorge1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esoteric_toad Posted March 14, 2019 Author #3 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Just now, papageorge1 said: The question ALWAYS becomes 'who is the judge' in these cases! If it is a determined skeptic, I wouldn't bother people. See while I consider myself a skeptic and it would take a lot for me to believe something that may not be explainable it seems that everyone either MUST believe or not. I do not agree with that. I will be the first to admit that videos of anything cannot provide any real evidence but I would still love to see one that isn't so easy to explain away. If I could see that the best (or worst depending on ones view) you are likely to get from me is, I do not know what that was. Actually I wasn't planning on judging anything. I just know that doing a quick search out there resulted in a bunch of obviously faked nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted March 14, 2019 #4 Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 minute ago, esoteric_toad said: I just know that doing a quick search out there resulted in a bunch of obviously faked nonsense. For example, my judgment tells me all the 'obviously faked nonsense' ones are probably not all obvious, faked and nonsense. I believe there are fakers, but more hard-core skeptics blow this out of proportion. Most people have a life and are not fakers when attempting to present an honest case. The question is if you are an open-minded skeptic OR just an attacker of paranormal beliefs. That said, these videos can still be fun to consider. If any show up the old Papameter has fresh batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esoteric_toad Posted March 14, 2019 Author #5 Share Posted March 14, 2019 The videos I was referring to would likely be the youtube "20 scariest ghosts caught on video!!". Most people DO have a life. However there are MANY who enjoy spooky stuff and have very low standards of acceptance. It is fun for them (nothing wrong with that). There are a LOT of videos geared specifically to those folks. Those videos are the first to come up on a search and way more often than not it is very obvious they are bogus (intentionally or not). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted March 14, 2019 #6 Share Posted March 14, 2019 3 hours ago, esoteric_toad said: The videos I was referring to would likely be the youtube "20 scariest ghosts caught on video!!". Most people DO have a life. However there are MANY who enjoy spooky stuff and have very low standards of acceptance. It is fun for them (nothing wrong with that). There are a LOT of videos geared specifically to those folks. Those videos are the first to come up on a search and way more often than not it is very obvious they are bogus (intentionally or not). Well from the OP and title I understood we are talking about the 'Best video evidence?'. To me, the best does not mean the most flamboyant and attention seeking. To me, the best usually come from just regular people experiencing the strange and then honestly sharing to learn themselves and don't really get wrapped up in whether 'we' believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted March 14, 2019 #7 Share Posted March 14, 2019 4 hours ago, papageorge1 said: The question ALWAYS becomes 'who is the judge' in these cases! Each viewer, we each make up our own minds or at least should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted March 14, 2019 #8 Share Posted March 14, 2019 I did this same thing with bigfoot pics/videos and i bet this threads results will basically be the same and end with zip, zero. And i persinally do still have an unexplained category but unknown does mean it is the paranormal answer which is what many true believers insist unknown means.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted March 14, 2019 #9 Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, the13bats said: Each viewer, we each make up our own minds or at least should. That was my point exactly. The OP was just expressing his own opinion on the low believability of the ghost videos out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted March 15, 2019 #10 Share Posted March 15, 2019 George i didnt get that impression from you but rather that you feel the "judgement" of believability is unfair and biased only because the majority doesnt agree with you opinion. I expressed the same as toad when i posted my bigfoot thread, i did come at it with an opinion on the very low believability because of what was and is being presented. That doesnt mean im not open to good evidence if it ever pops up and no, anecdotal is not proof or even evidence from a scientific stance no matter how badly true belivers wish it were. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esoteric_toad Posted March 15, 2019 Author #11 Share Posted March 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, the13bats said: George i didnt get that impression from you but rather that you feel the "judgement" of believability is unfair and biased only because the majority doesnt agree with you opinion. I expressed the same as toad when i posted my bigfoot thread, i did come at it with an opinion on the very low believability because of what was and is being presented. That doesnt mean im not open to good evidence if it ever pops up and no, anecdotal is not proof or even evidence from a scientific stance no matter how badly true belivers wish it were. This is it exactly. I mean there are literally thousands of videos out there but I do not have the time nor the interest in wading through all the dreck that is out there. I really did try and find some videos that might be posted on the worlds most popular video sharing service, youtube, and the same tired garbage kept popping up duplicated throughout virtually all of the "Top <insert number here> scariest ghosts caught on video!!!!!". So many of them obviously faked for the fans of just being freaked out. So so many bad girl-in-a-white-night-shirt-with-long-black-hair-covering-her-face videos...and the red circles....they are everywhere! "Surveillance" cameras pointed at the silliest things that would make zero sense. Video of video, really? It goes on and on. So I think to myself. UM has some folks that are really into ghosts and stuff. Maybe they have some links to share that do NOT fall into the above categories. I would go as far as biting my tongue if I found them silly personally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted March 15, 2019 #12 Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 hour ago, the13bats said: George i didnt get that impression from you but rather that you feel the "judgement" of believability is unfair and biased only because the majority doesnt agree with you opinion. The fact is we each do have our own opinion. And yes I did feel an unfair bias by the OP in my opinion . The majority of whom. UM Skeptics? Not a major demographic with me. You talk about just finding tired garbage? Well, I would bet some of those are probably indeed paranormal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted March 15, 2019 #13 Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) i really feel click bait has out right ruined youtube The problem is the majority do just want a quick scare from click bait, and that includes too many true belivers because afterall its all they have, which is sad. My bigfoot version of this was highjacked by your basic attentionjunkie troll in a hit and run i hope that doesnt happen here since i have no videos to post, just... The famous often debated "Maitlands" picture.... Edited March 15, 2019 by the13bats 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted March 15, 2019 #14 Share Posted March 15, 2019 14 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: The fact is we each do have our own opinion. And yes I did feel an unfair bias by the OP in my opinion . The majority of whom. UM Skeptics? Not a major demographic with me. You talk about just finding tired garbage? Well, I would bet some of those are probably indeed paranormal. And if i hedge your bet, how do you prove to me its paranormal to collect? Your opinion? Nope, doesnt wash. While skeptics UM and across the board are not a major demo to you they are the majority. I did get bored of finding the agreed tired garage and like toad i asked for posts and zero, zip, Youve posted a few times in this thread you are a huge true believer yet no videos from you that speaks volumes and dont cop out saying anything you post will be debunked since we also agreed we each are our own judge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esoteric_toad Posted March 15, 2019 Author #15 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Heck I wasn't expecting any one person to provide links. If ANYONE would that would be cool. I have been surfing the web, not just youtube, I still haven't found anything worth posting, IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBene Posted March 15, 2019 #16 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Among my inner circle, this video has been discussed hundreds of times. I still believe it has something to do with fireflies or something of the sort. Still, interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted March 15, 2019 #17 Share Posted March 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, the13bats said: And if i hedge your bet, how do you prove to me its paranormal to collect? Your opinion? Nope, doesnt wash. While skeptics UM and across the board are not a major demo to you they are the majority. I did get bored of finding the agreed tired garage and like toad i asked for posts and zero, zip, Youve posted a few times in this thread you are a huge true believer yet no videos from you that speaks volumes and dont cop out saying anything you post will be debunked since we also agreed we each are our own judge. Of course my point was the whole thing and our impossible bet was unresolveable. i heard what is old and tired to you. What gets old and tired to me is the assumption the the videos have been figured out because a skeptic throws out a possibility. Any one story/picture/video can be argued into infinity we all know. The final interesting issue to me is my judgment of what is most reasonable to think about the full body of all stories/photos/videos. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esoteric_toad Posted March 15, 2019 Author #18 Share Posted March 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, MrBene said: Among my inner circle, this video has been discussed hundreds of times. I still believe it has something to do with fireflies or something of the sort. Still, interesting. I think the lights might be lightning bugs but the other stuff. I do not know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted March 15, 2019 #19 Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) George has a point in a way, while personally i do not believe it ghosts as any kind of departed soul or spirit or conscience eninty in any way and even if im wrong by nature of it i do not believe a ghost could be photographed, there is so much junk click bait what if a real deal pic was mixed up it the mess, it would be missed. Mrbene, Its a fun video and i take the fact they were set up right there to film as a red flag, and i could reproduce it with leds, And it very well could be glowing insects, intriguing. Here is a still, The Spectre of Newby Church Its fun to me because for every photo expert who says fake another photo expert says no way its fake. Edited March 15, 2019 by the13bats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esoteric_toad Posted March 15, 2019 Author #20 Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 minute ago, the13bats said: George has a point in a way, while personally i do not believe it ghosts as any kind of departed soul or spirit or conscience eninty in any way and even if im wrong by nature do not believe a ghost could be photographed, there is so much junk click bait what if a real deal pic was mixed up it the mess, it would be missed. Mrbene, Its a fun video and i take the fact they were set up right there to film as a red flag, and i could reproduce it with leds, And it very well could be glowing insects, intriguing. Here is a still, The Spectre of Newby Church Its fun to me because for every photo expert who says fake another photo expert says no way its fake. The problem with this photo is that during the whole spiritualism/theosophism movement there were hundreds if not thousands of fake ghost pictures, typically done via double exposure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted March 15, 2019 #21 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Thats correct but this is one of the few that some photo experts still get weird over, but i do believe its a double exposed effect and that the ghost it stretched it always looked deformed to me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esoteric_toad Posted March 15, 2019 Author #22 Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 minute ago, the13bats said: Thats correct but this is one of the few that some photo experts still get weird over, but i do believe its a double exposed effect and that the ghost it stretched it always looked deformed to me.... When I was a kid I used to pour over anything dealing with ghosts/hauntings. I remember being mesmerized by early "spirit photography". The photos of "ectoplasm" and so much more. That was when I didn't really question anything (I was a kid after all). So many of those old photographs seem so silly now. The thing is, I would love for it all to be real. I'd like to think that within all the fakes, the hoaxes, the misguided believers willing to accept anything, that somewhere, sometime, some of this is actually true and real. For me, at least, the bar is really really high and I am, to say the least, a heavy skeptic. I still find it all so fascinating though. For example I find the hoaxes and tricks that early "mediums" use very interesting. Things like ghost writing tricks and spirit bells. What is really interesting is that I have tried to find out how to build both of those items and while I can buy instructions there is nothing (that I have found) that is free. It amazes me that with the internet and all the rampant pirating out there you think there would be plans for virtually anything available but for whatever reason these items seem elusive (except vague descriptions on how they work). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted March 15, 2019 #23 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Another thing about it, Look how the bottom step the translucent shroud of the phantom looks poured on that bottom step and spilling over the front if that step, or like a shadow hitting that step and to a lesser degree the steps over it, not like a flat transparent pic on a flat background pic Also the eyes and mouth are oddly twisted out of relation to the hood and face area. I was deep into amateur magic, a lot of what you desire in in Houdinis books, back in those days females had it made, it was not proper to check a lady and she could have all kinds of stuff hidden in her dresses, One reason that you dont see that stuff free is the only people who care about it still make money on it, so i feel kind on honor to professionals not to spew trade secrets public but let me root around and grind on it, perhaps a PM, trust me its not epic, just gimmicks, which spirit writting technique did you like. I know how you feel i wanted old plans to headless woman and woman to gorrilla llusions for free of course, gorrilla girl is campy like spidora but headless girl still creeps me out, seems the more dirty crappy looking the more creepy, if done well you can reach out touch her hand and still not see the trick to it. What bums me is im no copperfield or angel he might pay over a million no kidding to do one trick, i play over 100 for a gimmick it better be worth it and i mostly like old shock magic, some of my favs like needle through arm or tongue or eating a live hamster are all over the web some to the best coin gimmicks now come in 15.00 kids magic sets, How about i mind bend a key...not in my hand, you can hold it, watch and feel it bend, 49.99 and getting well known, I actually know a guy with rare earth magnets one enbedded in a finger tip one in his palm, i wont got that far.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esoteric_toad Posted March 15, 2019 Author #24 Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, the13bats said: Another thing about it, Look how the bottom step the translucent shroud of the phantom looks poured on that bottom step and spilling over the front if that step, or like a shadow hitting that step and to a lesser degree the steps over it, not like a flat transparent pic on a flat background pic Also the eyes and mouth are oddly twisted out of relation to the hood and face area. I was deep into amateur magic, a lot of what you desire in in Houdinis books, back in those days females had it made, it was not proper to check a lady and she could have all kinds of stuff hidden in her dresses, One reason that you dont see that stuff free is the only people who care about it still make money on it, so i feel kind on honor to professionals not to spew trade secrets public but let me root around and grind on it, perhaps a PM, trust me its not epic, just gimmicks, which spirit writting technique did you like. I know how you feel i wanted old plans to headless woman and woman to gorrilla llusions for free of course, gorrilla girl is campy like spidora but headless girl still creeps me out, seems the more dirty crappy looking the more creepy, if done well you can reach out touch her hand and still not see the trick to it. What bums me is im no copperfield or angel he might pay over a million no kidding to do one trick, i play over 100 for a gimmick it better be worth it and i mostly like old shock magic, some of my favs like needle through arm or tongue or eating a live hamster are all over the web some to the best coin gimmicks now come in 15.00 kids magic sets, How about i mind bend a key...not in my hand, you can hold it, watch and feel it bend, 49.99 and getting well known, I actually know a guy with rare earth magnets one enbedded in a finger tip one in his palm, i wont got that far.... I am actually more interested in the spirit bell. While I cannot claim to be good at it I have an interest in making something like that, something that looks old and spooky. I have always wanted to make those props like vampire hunting kits. I enjoy that sort of thing. In fact there is a store in Ybor City I have been meaning to visit that sells "oddities". So many magic tricks I have seen absolutely amaze me. Makes me think it is a real sort of magic...if you get my meaning. Edited to add, the fact that these things are not found on the web, for free, actually makes it seem even more 'mystical', like a protected knowledge. I think it is another reason I find it so fascinating. Edited March 15, 2019 by esoteric_toad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted March 15, 2019 #25 Share Posted March 15, 2019 I was in orlando all my life and moved to eusts a few years back, one of the old ferran houses, I havent been to tampa ybor since a show i did last year in ybor, i am kind under a rock and hadn't heard about oddities sounds fun, Which style spirit bell do you like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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