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esoteric_toad

Best video evidence?

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esoteric_toad
10 minutes ago, the13bats said:

I was in orlando all my life and moved to eusts a few years back, one of the old ferran houses,

I havent been to tampa ybor since a show i did last year in ybor, i am kind under a rock and hadn't heard about oddities sounds fun,

Which style spirit bell do you like?

 

I've only seen a few. I'll have to look at some of the ones I was checking out and find a pic. I prefer the simple ones, the type that have an old, basic look to them, almost folk art I guess. The newer ones look like they could be faked (I know, they all are).

I may be heading over to St. Petersburg next week. I may make an effort to hit that shop. Hoping it's not all skeletons and goth stuff.

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moonman
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, MrBene said:

Among my inner circle, this video has been discussed hundreds of times. I still believe it has something to do with fireflies or something of the sort. Still, interesting.

 

 

We had a whole thread on that video here - I think the general consensus was that it was either the headlights of the motorcycles they talk about or somebody with a flashlight behind the hill they are filming. Personally I think it's a flashlight, the shape is round with a dark spot in the middle, just like a flashlight beam, and it pans across the trees. They are in a campground and random unknown hikers with flashlights would be beyond common, and the twilight conditions make it look a little creepy. If it were actually night it would probably be more obvious.

I have yet to see a video that couldn't be explained away. Too many people film this stuff and jump to wild conclusions simply because they want it to be paranormal and don't do any debunking at the time. Like this video - why not get up and walk over closer?

Edited by moonman
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the13bats

 I guess the evils of Penn Jillette and his blowing magic secrets has rubbed off because im gonna spoil a few things so true believers close your eyes read no further.

Spirits bells had a few versions back in the days, and the perps had as much or more talant that some do today because in those days lots of skills were required,

The bells, some were the town cryer style some smaller hung on rope or string from a little support,

The tables, chairs even perpetrators bodies hid the tools of their trade, a simple version the perp had the bell on the floor and slipping off their shoe and their feet worked like hands, Houdini was a master with his feet.

Sometimes this version had a bell on the table under a glass box the bell under the table had a bit of cloth on its dinger to muffle the sound and gave the impression the bell rang from inside a box,

Sometimes the perp hid a small bell on an extending rod, like a modern selfie stick, when the lights went out, remember most things were done in the dark the perp could ring the bell over the head or in the ear of the mark.

Another version i liked, a bell hung on a little frame and would wiggle and twitch and ring, this was done with a very fine line, makes fishing line look like a rope, the line would run from bell to a point and pulling pushing on the line rang the bell this could be done by perp or assistant and the line was almost 100% impossible to see in low light.

As time passed modern magicians used the bell with a forced card spirit illusion, they would pretend to random pick a card they dont look at, forcing a card is easy, then ask the bell questions and bell rings to answer and the did use the fine line, but as street perps set the bar pretty high, now there are bells that use a remote, it just triggers an electro magnet, some have the emagnet in a base under the bell, but the slickest and big dollar hide the electronics in the cryer style bell handle, when the perp presses his remote for the bell to ding it energizes the bell and the steel dinger junps and rings, this is the same idea you might recall the card cheats using in the movie casino,

Of course variations are only limited to the perps imagination.

This gimmick,

s-l225.jpg.bf45b204825a1d956fbbb30f5f28d56f.jpg

Its a reel of fine line, the reel is small about 1.25 inch you can pull the line out about 20 feet and stick the end to something the reel end is inside your coat, waistcoat,  up sleeve etc, and you can float object if front of you or throw a lit match book and have it come back, this gimmick also floats a spinning card which is a super cool look the first few times you see it.

 

Don't hold me too it, but that ybor store might be the one Voltaire was in doing some promo several years back, i was in the club biz, alternative, goth, industrial, etc. I still do guest shows.

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openozy
19 hours ago, esoteric_toad said:

Hi, I am a skeptic but from time to time I venture onto the net to see if anyone has anything that could remotely be interesting/intriguing. Realizing that the internet is overflowing with junk it is difficult to find anything that is even convincing in a "realistic" way. 

With all the "ghost hunters" out there I was wondering if anyone has any videos and whatnot that cannot be easily explained away. If so, post a link! If anything it could be fun just to pick them apart :)

How about blast yourself into orbit weirdo.

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esoteric_toad
4 hours ago, the13bats said:

 I guess the evils of Penn Jillette and his blowing magic secrets has rubbed off because im gonna spoil a few things so true believers close your eyes read no further.

Spirits bells had a few versions back in the days, and the perps had as much or more talant that some do today because in those days lots of skills were required,

The bells, some were the town cryer style some smaller hung on rope or string from a little support,

The tables, chairs even perpetrators bodies hid the tools of their trade, a simple version the perp had the bell on the floor and slipping off their shoe and their feet worked like hands, Houdini was a master with his feet.

Sometimes this version had a bell on the table under a glass box the bell under the table had a bit of cloth on its dinger to muffle the sound and gave the impression the bell rang from inside a box,

Sometimes the perp hid a small bell on an extending rod, like a modern selfie stick, when the lights went out, remember most things were done in the dark the perp could ring the bell over the head or in the ear of the mark.

Another version i liked, a bell hung on a little frame and would wiggle and twitch and ring, this was done with a very fine line, makes fishing line look like a rope, the line would run from bell to a point and pulling pushing on the line rang the bell this could be done by perp or assistant and the line was almost 100% impossible to see in low light.

As time passed modern magicians used the bell with a forced card spirit illusion, they would pretend to random pick a card they dont look at, forcing a card is easy, then ask the bell questions and bell rings to answer and the did use the fine line, but as street perps set the bar pretty high, now there are bells that use a remote, it just triggers an electro magnet, some have the emagnet in a base under the bell, but the slickest and big dollar hide the electronics in the cryer style bell handle, when the perp presses his remote for the bell to ding it energizes the bell and the steel dinger junps and rings, this is the same idea you might recall the card cheats using in the movie casino,

Of course variations are only limited to the perps imagination.

This gimmick,

s-l225.jpg.bf45b204825a1d956fbbb30f5f28d56f.jpg

Its a reel of fine line, the reel is small about 1.25 inch you can pull the line out about 20 feet and stick the end to something the reel end is inside your coat, waistcoat,  up sleeve etc, and you can float object if front of you or throw a lit match book and have it come back, this gimmick also floats a spinning card which is a super cool look the first few times you see it.

 

Don't hold me too it, but that ybor store might be the one Voltaire was in doing some promo several years back, i was in the club biz, alternative, goth, industrial, etc. I still do guest shows.

While I could figure out most of what you pointed out regarding the spirit bell I definitely assumed the newer ones used electromagnets and a remote of some kind. The only issue I noticed was the bell seems to move in a jerky way because of the on/off of the magnet. Not an engineer by any means but have been trying to work out how to smooth the movement out so it looks more natural. Thanks for the info, it certainly clarified what I thought!

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esoteric_toad
5 hours ago, moonman said:

We had a whole thread on that video here - I think the general consensus was that it was either the headlights of the motorcycles they talk about or somebody with a flashlight behind the hill they are filming. Personally I think it's a flashlight, the shape is round with a dark spot in the middle, just like a flashlight beam, and it pans across the trees. They are in a campground and random unknown hikers with flashlights would be beyond common, and the twilight conditions make it look a little creepy. If it were actually night it would probably be more obvious.

I have yet to see a video that couldn't be explained away. Too many people film this stuff and jump to wild conclusions simply because they want it to be paranormal and don't do any debunking at the time. Like this video - why not get up and walk over closer?

The one thing I did notice about the video is the path that the shape/shapes take. It definitely seems to follow a path and that does seem to indicate that something is creating the objects, like shadows from headlights from vehicles driving on a curved road. Not saying that is the cause but it does seem possible.

The whole why not walk closer is always one that gives it away but many would argue that they would be too frightened to do so.

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esoteric_toad
1 hour ago, openozy said:

How about blast yourself into orbit weirdo.

Not until they have proper toilets and showers! Trust me when I say space travel, for now, is a funky business.

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openozy
17 minutes ago, esoteric_toad said:

Not until they have proper toilets and showers! Trust me when I say space travel, for now, is a funky business.

Messer.

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the13bats
Posted (edited)

Toad,

You are correct the bell jumps in a jerky way as the nature of the emagnet switching on and off and if 50 people are watching several will have that dawn on them , hey, that looks like when magnets repel

In my collection is one of these,

s-l300(2).jpg.11cffbb8f43aa0edbe24c069259b3645.jpg

mystic-skull-vintage-game.jpg.f432f08ab78762786bdcbb6001d17e50.jpg

The board has a hiden magnet and the skull does stirring the pot changes the board magnet location, when the skull passes over the magnet with a gap between skull and board the skull jumps, really cool looking.

I like the town cryer style bell, It has that buried alive warning bell look to me, in a way,

Its about 500.00 to buy as a trick out of my budget and while the advertisement says no coil, no magnets no sound recordings, no lines, i believe that is misleading because it is electronic and performer controlled, my guess was while the bell looks brass its plated and when energized becomes the magnet that pulls the ding to ring the bell, i like its self contained you can have a person hold it, but its not dramatic, you hear the bell but no jumping around, dull.

I need to grind on the electronics a bit more im out of the loop whats out there and where,

 

Edited by the13bats
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esoteric_toad

Incidentally, there really hasn't been a lot of posted links by anyone. Makes one wonder why????

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Habitat
4 minutes ago, esoteric_toad said:

Incidentally, there really hasn't been a lot of posted links by anyone. Makes one wonder why????

What are the tentative results of that wondering ?

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the13bats

Its simple nothing has been posted because no one has anything,

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Habitat
4 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Its simple nothing has been posted because no one has anything,

And you conclude what from that ?

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freetoroam
4 minutes ago, Habitat said:

And you conclude what from that ?

I would say because - there is not anything.

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Habitat

But that isn't strictly logical, is it ? 

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esoteric_toad
Posted (edited)

Well I conclude there is no interest in the subject, the users and visitors of the board do not have anything to share or simply do not want to. I do not think anyone on this thread has been overly harsh regarding what little has been shared. 

UM is a good board but it is not all encompassing so I guess those that have visited simply do not have anything they want to share. 

That's too bad.

Edited by esoteric_toad
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the13bats
3 hours ago, Habitat said:

But that isn't strictly logical, is it ? 

To me it is logical to believe that If and that is a huge categorical "if" aliens were visiting earth then we should have a good video of their ship and we dont.

I cant really blame a true believer for not posting the same old tripe so in that even true believers can be logical.

 

 

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Habitat
3 hours ago, esoteric_toad said:

Well I conclude there is no interest in the subject, the users and visitors of the board do not have anything to share or simply do not want to. I do not think anyone on this thread has been overly harsh regarding what little has been shared. 

UM is a good board but it is not all encompassing so I guess those that have visited simply do not have anything they want to share. 

That's too bad.

So you expected a video that would be "convincing" ? Of course you didn't . And you now want to say that the absence of such videos, makes a strong case that the reason for the non-existence of the video, is the non-existence of such phenomena ? Right ?

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Habitat
13 minutes ago, the13bats said:

To me it is logical to believe that If and that is a huge categorical "if" aliens were visiting earth then we should have a good video of their ship and we dont.

Maybe depends on what people imagine to be alien space-ships, that they have sighted, really are. They may belong to some reality we can't even imagine. What then ? They still would not be able to dodge recording ? I wouldn't know.

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nope

I'll take a lashing for this, but... Have you seen the Ghost Hunters video in the prison, Toad?

I'm a lot like you .. Always looking for good video proof. Unfortunately, in this day and age, videos and pictures are worse than testimonials in most cases. 

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esoteric_toad
3 hours ago, nope said:

I'll take a lashing for this, but... Have you seen the Ghost Hunters video in the prison, Toad?

I'm a lot like you .. Always looking for good video proof. Unfortunately, in this day and age, videos and pictures are worse than testimonials in most cases. 

Like many subjects that fall under the "paranormal" heading there are MANY questionable videos/images. Also as I think you are eluding to, it is far to easy to make convincing bogus videos.

I still find it interesting though even though I am a skeptic. It is ironic that when skeptics ask for these sorts of things some will simply opt out and say, "what's the point??? you don't believe" or some variant of that. 

As I have said though, if anything it is fun to just see what is out there. It is true, I am not a big believer and I do believe that most of the evidence that is out there is simply wishful thinking at best but who knows? I just know that trying to find something on pages like youtube is an exercise in patience that I do not have.

I have seen the video of the prison ghost stuff. That did have some interesting things in it. My problem with locations like that is simple though, if a location where that "haunted" and has as much activity as it is claimed it would be constantly under surveillance and study 24/7. It would be hard to imagine a world where such seemingly obvious activity that many believe to be proof of impressions of the past or actual beings that have long died are able to manifest themselves would be neglected to "reality" based television series. On some level all of humanity would like to believe in an afterlife and if this location where what it has been claimed to be it would be the perfect place to prove it. Instead it is a source of more stories and questionable videos, evp and silly "psychic" impressions.

I would love to be wrong about all of that of course.

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papageorge1
5 hours ago, esoteric_toad said:

I have seen the video of the prison ghost stuff. That did have some interesting things in it. My problem with locations like that is simple though, if a location where that "haunted" and has as much activity as it is claimed it would be constantly under surveillance and study 24/7. 

My thought just like some famous poltergeist cases,  etc., the skeptic media will have it declared a known hoax. I've seen it again and again. Regular people and equipment telling some dramatic stuff.

5 hours ago, esoteric_toad said:

It would be hard to imagine a world where such seemingly obvious activity that many believe to be proof of impressions of the past or actual beings that have long died are able to manifest themselves would be neglected to "reality" based television series. 

Welcome to such a world. People and even scientists that study ghosts are called parapsychologists and in automatic dislike by many as you can find from pursuing the pages of just this forum. 

There is no 'science' that speaks for everyone officially. It is a collection of individuals each with their own bias and specialty brought to the table. Are there any 'real scientists'  that are parapsychologists or paranormal researchers? I say there are, but it is not much accepted as an academic discipline.

Bottom line is that in any field of controversy and emotion those who are interested beyond the surface have to do their own homework and thinking. My position by now is that many of these so-called paranormal things including ghosts and poltergeist activity exist beyond  reasonable doubt. And that there are those that have an emotional dislike of the paranormal for their own reasons such as an anti-religious/pro-science bias (all this religious and superstitious stuff was to have been done away with by 'science' last century and don't like the evidence that so stubbornly remain so much so that they become fanatical anti-paranormalists and hold up progress in the science field). 

 

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the13bats
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Habitat said:

Maybe depends on what people imagine to be alien space-ships, that they have sighted, really are. They may belong to some reality we can't even imagine. What then ? They still would not be able to dodge recording ? I wouldn't know.

If something doesnt effect me i dont waste time on it, okay i am replying to you and thats pretty much a waste but i meant in a bigger picture.

And of course if some place was a paranormal hot spot it wouldnt happen once for a fake reality show it would happen over and overwhere it could be tested.

Edited by the13bats

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esoteric_toad

There is no reason that any location that makes claims of ongoing hauntings can give for why there has been no ongoing investigation to find any and all evidence, paranormal or not. There is no rational reason that there wouldn't be given the claims made.

Amazing claims are made regarding so many locations and yet nothing of substance is ultimately attempted to prove or back any of it up.

I'll even give a bit, perhaps it's not possible to record everything, I can think of fantastical reasons why these observations may not work, but in the end I would just be making excuses. 

Between the evp claims, pictures of "orbs", stories of noises, things moving about and the myriad of other claims if haunted locations it just seems to convienenent that someone cannot simply install some cheapo go pro knockoffs that stream to the web so it could capture the spooky goings on for all to see.

Or perhaps there aren't any to capture really and that's why. Perhaps it's bad for business to find out that this or that pub, inn, bed & breakfast isn't really haunted at all. It's just not as much fun.

Ongoing haunting claims simply do not hold up because they do not want ongoing real research.

I wish I had the time & money to visit locations making these claims, to offer to put some sort of video or sound recording equipment in place that could run continuously. 

I have a feeling it would not go over well though.

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the13bats

Post 50 and nothing...speaks volumes.

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