What We Think Of As "Paranormal" May Be .....

[esoteric_toad]

5 minutes ago, macqdor said:

@esoteric_toad

Theres a post somewhere in this community of the CIA, NSA, and other govt agencies investigating "geist" phenomena.  Investigating Psi research.  Those investigations i.e. research are ongoing. 

Google Poltergeist and the acronym CIA, KGB, etc . Or parapsychology or Psi and read the documents recently made available by the Freedom of Information act. 

 

I'm taking a break at work. I'll check that out later. 

I'm going to be there evil skeptic though. There is NO WAY that if anyone in ANY government truly took these claims seriously that there would be coverage of unreal levels. Beyond any involving possibilities of life on Mars, the moons of Jupiter or anywhere else.

What you describe wouldn't be limited to this web page, other "paranormal" web pages or books in the "other" sections. It would be EVERYWHERE. If it actually existed in the manner you insist it does.

I'll look for those documents though.

[Minimalists]

The CIA huh...

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/search/site/poltergeist

[macqdor]

@esoteric_toad

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001300090002-8.pdf

Quote

What you describe wouldn't be limited to this web page, other "paranormal" web pages or books in the "other" sections. It would be EVERYWHERE. If it actually existed in the manner you insist it does.

I'll look for those documents though.

the information and knowledge and discussion is not only on this website.  Its on countless websites with similar subject matter.

Poltergeist falls under the Psi phenomena so it helps to Google search both terms long and hard when on Gov't websites.

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/document/cia-rdp96-00788r001300090002-8

EXPERIMENTAL PSI RESEARCH: IMPLICATIONS FOR PHYSICS

I'm not going to bring all the documents here for fear of it becoming a straw man exercise. But you can and should do your own research.    The subject we debate about is being looked at, researched on, and sought after in various gov't intelligence channels.

Gov't agencies are studying this stuff

don't forget to check out the reference sections for each document.

They definitely don't regard it as "BS"

[macqdor]

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00792R000300420002-7.pdf

 

govt't, colleges, and houses of science are looking into this stuff.  There trying to get a patent on it. and other things

what you call BS they call opportunity.

No govt't wants to be caught with his/her pants down......where Psi research is concerned.

@esoteric_toad

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by macqdor

[macqdor]

https://www.collective-evolution.com/2016/11/11/cia-document-confirms-reality-of-humans-with-special-abilities-able-to-do-impossible-things/

@esoteric_toad

deserves a full read.

Quote

Zhang Baosheng became a full-time subject of the military-run psi research team.”

What Was Zhang Baosheng Able To Do? 

One of Zhang’s accomplishments involved moving sealed objects in and out of sealed containers.

Lin Shuhuang, as mentioned above who is from the physics department of Beijing Teacher’s College, studied this man for six months and described experiments where small pieces of paper were placed in a sealed test tube.

After five minutes, with scientists observing and video taping from various angles, the pieces of paper somehow appeared outside the tube despite the fact that the test tube was still sealed and undamaged.

 

you dont hear about these things in places like this or in media because less is more.  Skeptics don't bring it up or introduce it because it doesn't support there world view (argument).

Scientists the world over (China, Korea, Russia, the US) . Physicists, etc know these feats are real.   

Quote

The film showed a medicine pill moving through an irreversibly sealed glass vial, which occurred in three frames of a 400 frame per second film. (source)

Another release (about Zhang) from the CIA (Research Into Paranormal Ability To Break Through Spatial Barriers) states:

A wooden cabinet 120 by 180 by 60 centimeters was used as a sealed container. Sheets of papers and boards with one  of a kind markings were used as the target objects and placed inside the cabinet on the upper shelf. Without damaging the cabinet or opening the door, the person with ESP was able to remove the target objects and also was able to put them back inside. This demonstrates that even when using especially large container it is possible to completely break through spacial barriers, however, the success rate was much lower and was exceptionally difficult.

These objects are moving through glass and walls witnessed by scientists and gov't agencies. Imagine whats going in certain peoples  homes, the world over?

I've seen objects go through walls in my house. I've seen objects go through tables. Through chairs.  Through ceilings.  Through floors.  I can't explain it. As did several researchers in my home (Jan, April 2016)

Here are documents release because of Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). where men, scientists, gov't intelligence agencies are meeting and conducting experiments where objects move through matter.

 

Quote

According to Eric Davis, Ph.D, FBIS, from a declassified US Air Force document obtained via the Federation of American Scientists, Shuhuang reported that ‘gifted children’ were responsible for the teleportation of small, physical objects from one place to another. Some of these objects included watches, horseflies, other insects, radio micro-transmitters, photosensitive paper and more. The participants never touched the objects beforehand. The experiments were done under both blind and double-blind conditions and the researches involved came from various colleges and sectors of the Department of Defense. 

 

 

Quote

According to Dr. Dean Radin, Chief Scientists at the Institute of Noetic Sciences conducted an experiment involving mental teleportation of bits of paper out of a sealed plastic film container. This was documented in a report published in 2010 by retired research chemist Dong Shen. What’s even more fascinating is that these methods were taught to others and the success rate was 40 percent.

 

 

I already the skeptics reaction.   

• Straw Man
• Character assassination, etc   
•  
•  
• That's  their favorite playbook

 

Smarter men are studying this stuff because they know its real.

 

combine these experiments with whats being reported in homes and tell me there's no coincidence?

those who say there's no coincidence become the perfect definition of what it is to be obtuse.

 

 

 

[papageorge1]

40 minutes ago, macqdor said:

 

I already the skeptics reaction.   

• Straw Man
• Character assassination, etc   
•  
•  
• That's  their favorite playbook

 

 

 

 

As far as controlled experimental evidence, I think the only card left in the anti-paranormalist’s  hand is professional and character assasination 

So this last card can and will never be relinquished by them! In that way the game can be made to go on forever.

Those truly  interested in this stuff need to look, listen and think for themselves. 

Edited March 16, 2019 by papageorge1

[SecretSanta]

https://www.scmp.com/article/370590/strange-encounter-x-files-kind

Quote

But Professor He maintains Mr Zhang does simple magic tricks, relying on sleight of hand.

'He couldn't make them work under laboratory conditions,' he said, holding up a square of sealed glass he manufactured in 1988 to test the power of Mr Zhang's X-ray eyes. The glass contained a message written on a sheet of paper, which Mr Zhang failed to read after numerous attempts.

 

[Minimalists]

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

As far as controlled experimental evidence, I think the only card left in the anti-paranormalist’s  hand is professional and character assasination 

So this last card can and will never be relinquished by them! In that way the game can be made to go on forever.

Those truly  interested in this stuff need to look, listen and think for themselves. 

This paranormal issue has not helped itself with all the hoaxing and deceptive manipulation that some who believe will use to prove a point...Case in point "UFO Phenomena"....

[esoteric_toad]

Has the institue of noetic science actually produced anything that has been peer reviewed by anyone except themselves? I mean anything, not just poltergeist related. Maybe my googlefu is weak but I can find nothing about anything other than on their own web page. Maybe not a fair comparison but it gives me a sort of Scientology vibe........

[macqdor]

@esoteric_toad

 

These experiments are conducted in govt agencies.  They've just seen the light of day by use of FOIA.

The govt I'm sure has their own vetting process.  There not conducting these experiments for the masses. There conducting these experiments for weapons and espionage. 

They like there peers run into the same difficulty at times. Some experiments are successful.  Some aren't. Some require further research.  Deeper funding.

These tests took place in the 80s, 90s. I doubt you and I will know what experiments are being conducted now. Stuff like this usually come to light 30 to 50 yrs later. 

[esoteric_toad]

Just now, macqdor said:

@esoteric_toad

 

These experiments are conducted in govt agencies.  They've just seen the light of day by use of FOIA.

The govt I'm sure has their own vetting process.  There not conducting these experiments for the masses. There conducting these experiments for weapons and espionage. 

They like there peers run into the same difficulty at times. Some experiments are successful.  Some aren't. Some require further research.  Deeper funding.

These tests took place in the 80s, 90s. I doubt you and I will know what experiments are being conducted now. Stuff like this usually come to light 30 to 50 yrs later. 

I am reading some of them right now. You'll likely not be surprised that my opinion ultimately might not change. While I may never have known specifics I did know that the US gov and USSR did studies on all manner of 'paranormal' subjects. I am sure that studies continue but it is unlikely that I would agree on why. Governments are run by people who do what is deemed important at the time and if one enemy does a study then you can bet the other will to. That ultimately does not make the subject any more real. Governments are prone to the same mistakes as any other groups of people as well. 

In today's world with nearly everyone's ability to transmit data in real time to virtually the entire world I cannot accept that something of this potential magnitude, if true, would be so difficult to find and impossible to hide. Every government of every country would have to have an agreement to hide the "alien entities among us". Every single country would have to agree on how completely helpless we are against "them". In a world where Jedi can become a religion (among many other things) there would be religions specifically worshiping the all powerful invisible poltergeist. I understand, that these things, if they existed, would likely be rare but given the UFO/ALIEN scares during the 1940's-1970's and our government response I would expect something of similar scale or even larger with poltergeists.

It might not seem so, but I do have a life outside of this forum and while I do enjoy a good back and forth I do not have time to invest in reading everything that may or may not be out there. I have read some of the entries on the CIA page. If you do have any links to the best of the best then by all means post them. If I have the time I will continue to look as well. So far though I haven't seen anything other than, yes, research has been done but nothing has ever really come of it.

[macqdor]

Quote

5. And guess what? We still haven’t given up on this research.

“Presently, the Office of Naval Research calls this program Anomalous Mental Cognition,” Jacobsen says, referring to a $3.9 million program founded by the ONR in 2014 to investigate the existence of precognition — which they refer to as “a spidey sense.” Yes, like in the comics.

• one phenomena reported by "geist" experiences is the feeling of being watched. a premonition or precognition that something is about to happen. Guess what it does. Spidey sense?  Who knows?

Quote

In 2006, Army Staff Sgt. Martin Richburg sensed something odd about a man at a cafe in Iraq. After clearing out the patrons, he discovered an improvised explosive device that the man had left behind. Whether it was instinct, or something more, researchers are understandably curious to see if there’s a way to trigger that kind of insight.

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00789R003100080001-9.pdf

 

These are gov't agencies. Gov't program (paid for by the tax payer) looking into Psi research.  research that includes the possibility of teleportation, materialization, mind control, etc 

Its clandestine. Its not talked about and its viewed as pseudoscience as a means of keeping it low key.. 

 

don't forget to look at the Definitions (U) section of the document   ;-)

@esoteric_toad

 

[macqdor]

Quote

It might not seem so, but I do have a life outside of this forum and while I do enjoy a good back and forth I do not have time to invest in reading everything that may or may not be out there. I have read some of the entries on the CIA page. If you do have any links to the best of the best then by all means post them. If I have the time I will continue to look as well. So far though I haven't seen anything other than, yes, research has been done but nothing has ever really come of it.

your premise is flawed.  Research is being done as a means of trying to tap into it. Tame or manipulate / control the phenomena for espionage, military purposes.   This isn't Google.  This is Apple or Facebook R&D departments.  This Intelligence, Defense, Communist governments and Military arms of DoD looking into the subject matter.  There not trying to invent teleportation.  There trying to control it   Master the physics of it, whatever that may be.

LOL

 

 

 

 

[Dejarma]

Quote

We must be careful not to give in to our human nature to dismiss what’s “para”—that is, above, beside or beyond—our understanding, just because we don’t have an explanation for it at this very moment.

explanation for what? all data required on claims of the paranormal are just stories-- science can not & will not spend time effort & money on a claim of this nature- why would they?

[Dejarma]

On 14/03/2019 at 2:42 PM, macqdor said:

Most of Earth’s species are still awaiting discovery according to recent studies.

study what?? how can anyone have any idea with regards to <what hasn't been discovered yet!?> who wrote this crap!?

[macqdor]

@Dejarma

Your late. Catch up on the posts. Science has been investing greatly in the paranormal.  They still are.

I'm not talking about the Dyson's of the world.

I'm talking ssssssh scientist.  Scientists who have give a retina scan whenever they enter a lab to go to work in the morning. 

CIA, NSA, FBI, KGB whatever they call it now, China, Korea, etc. These scientists wont ever get the Nobel peace prize if they discover something.

 

[Dejarma]

3 minutes ago, macqdor said:

Your late. Catch up on the posts. Science has been investing greatly in the paranormal.

yep, fair enough.. i've no time to search through the posts... point me to one if you've time.. cheers

[Minimalists]

24 minutes ago, macqdor said:

your premise is flawed.  Research is being done as a means of trying to tap into it. Tame or manipulate / control the phenomena for espionage, military purposes.   This isn't Google.  This is Apple or Facebook R&D departments.  This Intelligence, Defense, Communist governments and Military arms of DoD looking into the subject matter.  There not trying to invent teleportation.  There trying to control it   Master the physics of it, whatever that may be.

LOL

 

 

 

 

Why are you quoting and responding to yourself? Post #88

Edited March 16, 2019 by Alien Origins

[Dejarma]

5 minutes ago, Alien Origins said:

Why are you quoting and responding to yourself?

he/she is not= it's a reply to @esoteric_toad

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, Alien Origins said:

This paranormal issue has not helped itself with all the hoaxing and deceptive manipulation that some who believe will use to prove a point...Case in point "UFO Phenomena"....

I see  it more as obfuscation by claims of hoaxing by so-called skeptics intentionally clouding the water than actual hoaxing by scientists in the paranormal field at least.

[esoteric_toad]

Is it me or does:

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00789R003100080001-9.pdf

Look like a proposal and that there is no indication that anything was actually done?

That picture has nothing to do with anything paranormal.

The line about the guy finding an improvised explosive proves nothing regarding anything abnormal. Maybe he was just really good at spotting nuances that others would not. No need for psychic abilities to explain that. Many people are good at 'reading' people, noticing physical cues that give away what a person is really thinking/feeling. As a simplified example, work in retail long enough and you can spot the shop lifter a large percentage of the time. They do not all have a stereotypical appearance and many who may see the person would, based on appearance alone, never imagine that person as a thief. Casinos have people specifically trained to find the cheaters that have their practices down to the point where to anyone else nothing at all was happening in a devious way. 

I still will not buy the fact that if there truly was anything to any of this it would be some underground, top-secret, hush hush, underground world government cover-up. If ANY of this could be used in a way to advance people, especially monetarily, it would be EVERYWHERE. 

Yes governments study things. They study everything. They study studies. They study belief systems, they study the things other countries study. Hell they study things JUST to make other countries study them. 

I will keep looking though.  

[macqdor]

You're not reading the entire pdfs. How do I know?

Some of these experiments involve apport, teleportation,  telepathy,  reading minds, objects disappearing and reappearing.  Mind control and etc. Studies outside the main stream Results main stream scientists and skeptics scoffs at.

You cant critique a subject if all you're going to do cherry pick or gloss over data.

The govt agencies are deeply involved in the psi research.  The word paranormal is littered throughout  some of these studies. 

@esoteric_toad

 

[Dejarma]

58 minutes ago, macqdor said:

The govt agencies are deeply involved in the psi research. 

all top secret, highly classified i take it?

[macqdor]

Quote

all top secret, highly classified i take it?

Some is. Some isn't.  The documents and articles posted above were released via the Freedom of Information Act aka FOIA.   These projects probably were TOP SECRET back in the day.  I mean there coming from the intelligence agency of local and foreign governments.  

Black Budget Projects (funding) as there are called often dive into subject matter and science taboo to modern disciplines.

The argument is simple.  If our enemies are studying this stuff then we have to study it to.   That's what intelligence agencies do.

@Dejarma

 

[Dejarma]

20 minutes ago, macqdor said:

Some is. Some isn't. 

what a ridiculous thing to say.. all due respect= think about it:

if research of this nature is undergoing then it being top secret, highly classified; you me & everyone else wouldn't know of it's existence, would we, Sherlock...

to say: 'some is' imo is==== rediculous! because you don't know, do ya!? or-this can only mean you know something myself & others do not- what is it? or is it just stuff you've read & believe?

i'm all ears mate