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macqdor

What We Think Of As "Paranormal" May Be .....

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macqdor
Posted (edited)

I'm Not here to make you a believer.  That's a fools errand.  You wanna know what's ironic? You and me both belong to a community titled :Unexplained Mysteries "  Not Mysteries Solved. LOL.

If u want to know if Poltergeist is real. I reccomend you get in the trenches. Do the work. Join some organizations.   Create one yourself. 

Arm chair quarterbacking should be beneath every human.  KL

Edited by macqdor

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stereologist

If I want to know poltergeists are real I would look for evidence.So far it is clear there is none.

There are plenty of frauds and hoaxers out there. There are plenty of people making up fake stories to sell books and whatever to the gullible.

Where is the the evidence. The more people look the more they learn there is none.

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macqdor

Theres plenty of evidence,  testimony,  documentation,  etc.

But with your prism. The one u wear so well and so thick.  I'm not surprised u feel the way you do.

Doesn't surprise me at ALL.

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stereologist

There is no evidence, but there are plenty of vacuous suggestions that it exists yet they never seem to show it. 

It's so obvious that there is no evidence. 

Some people just have their heads in the sand and pretend, pretend, pretend that evidence exists.

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macqdor

The facts beat you.

You said every has been investigated and proven a hoax.  Who investigated this case?

I think the physician and others would disagree. 

FB_IMG_1552427164214.jpg

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Timothy
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, macqdor said:

I'm Not here to make you a believer.  That's a fools errand.  You wanna know what's ironic? You and me both belong to a community titled :Unexplained Mysteries "  Not Mysteries Solved. LOL.

If u want to know if Poltergeist is real. I reccomend you get in the trenches. Do the work. Join some organizations.   Create one yourself. 

Arm chair quarterbacking should be beneath every human.  KL

You spam UM with your poltergeist BS. 

It may be a monkey in one country, a pesky kid in another, or a knowingly fraudulent adult writing things on the wall with ‘bone black’.

Everything is a poltergeist to you.

The fire department report is still pending...

Edited by Timothy
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macqdor

To an obtuse person I can see how you would call it person. To a person ignorant of "geist:" activity.  Ear deep in cynicism.  Heck yeah its looks like spam to u alright.  Me thinking everything is poltergeist related? Yes and no.  Everything I bring here is Poltergeist related.  Theres a difference. 

 

You still don't know why the "geist" used bone black in house huh?  I'll give you one word hint. Bothell  Huge hint!

Fire report? That's been released already.  Any other straw man questions?

@Timothy

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Horta
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For example, Ancient Mayans and Aztecs throughout Latin America viewed solar eclipses as paranormal, just as Halley’s Comet was considered paranormal for several centuries throughout Europe.

These things were repeatedly observable real world phenomena awaiting an explanation, like apples falling from trees. Unlike telekinesis, psychic healing, chakras, bigfoot.....

All he is really saying here (without realising it) is that paranormal explanations for observable phenomena end up getting debunked. 

This is the pattern with the paranormal itself. It either relies solely on non testable, non falsifiable claims (often by charlatans), because when it doesn't it gets debunked.

Quote

When the concept of electricity was at its infancy during the last century, it was common to read headlines proclaiming “a true wonder of science,” “a modern marvel,” and “a miracle of physics!” Likewise, the introduction of the telegraph, wireless technology, and even antibiotics were all met with the same wonder and amazement and at the same time suspiciousness and caution.

What on earth did any of these things ever have to do with the "paranormal"? 

Quote

The truth of the matter is that “paranormal” really just refers to anything we don’t already have a solid scientific understanding at the present time. 

 

We already have very good explanations for most paranormal claims. Faith healing, fairies, bigfoot, astral travel, spoon bending...The short scientific term for it is bulls-it lol. The longer explanation takes in psychology, folkloric studies, the cognitive sciences/neuroscience.

So far all resolved paranormal claims have been made either by charlatans or the delusionals. At this stage the score seems to be 100% fake to 0% real. Not good odds those.

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stereologist
1 hour ago, macqdor said:

The facts beat you.

You said every has been investigated and proven a hoax.  Who investigated this case?

I think the physician and others would disagree. 

 

No where does it state that this was investigated.

Another case of a story.

The facts beat you and when you try to lie by posting an article that does not involve an investigation it shows how inept you are.

 

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macqdor
Quote

We already have very good explanations for most paranormal claims. Faith healing, fairies, bigfoot, astral travel, spoon bending...The short scientific term for it is bulls-it lol. The longer explanation takes in psychology, folkloric studies, the cognitive sciences/neuroscience.

So far all resolved paranormal claims have been made either by charlatans or the delusionals. At this stage the score seems to be 100% fake to 0% real. Not good odds those.

Quote

 

 

Depends where you're getting your data from?

I can't speak to bigfoot, fairies, astral projections, etc. I can only speak to phenomena's I've seen. Phenomena's my friends have seen. Skeptics love to ignore or gloss over the fact that multiple witnesses, not just the house occupant.  But witnesses like law enforcement, fire men, 1st responders, clergy, list goes on.  Have arrived on the scene (house) and witnessed things themselves.  I'm not talking about solo witness.  I'm talking 4 to 5 people witnessing the same thing at the same time (in the same room).   House guest in my house saw a flower pot fly across the room.  They saw it better than me based on where they were located when the event occurred.    They heard the loud bangs. The loud footsteps. A previous tenant 5 yrs before we moved had similar, almost identical activity.   Almost worst than ours for the short duration they lived in the home.     GF and I weren't even together at the time.   Only a person with life long membership in the Obtuse fan club would disavow something like that.   

Hoaxing? Fakery?  Disillusion, stressed out, money grabbing.  Those are dismissive conjectures IMO.  Speculation on steroids.    I'm sure there are a lot of Dr's, lawyers, policemen, EMT staff that would take offense to them being viewed as weak and stressed  to the point of no longer being able to tell the difference between real and unreal (paranormal).

No human being skeptics included should ignore their God given common sense or should I say (as a means of appeasing skeptics) your nature given common sense.

 

We have an old proverb in Texas that says

"don't p*** down my back, and try to tell me its raining."

We know what we saw, when we saw it.

 

Prove it to the masses.  That's not our job.


Science needs to get busy.  Come down off its pedestal somewhat and investigate "geist" phenomena themselves.

Lose that fear of being looked at as a loon.

@stereologist

 

Quote

The facts beat you and when you try to lie by posting an article that does not involve an investigation it shows how inept you are.

No you made the ridiculous comment that cases have been investigated.   I can assure you this one hasn't.  Doesn't make the event less real.

There's an extreme backlog of "geist" incidents that have NEVER been investigated.  This is just one of them.

 

 

 

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stereologist

So-called poltergeist phenomena has been shown to be a hoax time after time when it has been investigated.

So often skeptical groups have been prevented from doing investigations. The perpetrators of the hoaxes don't think they can fool skeptics. Well they can be fooled, too.

Science has better things to do than chase down every wacky con game to see if there is any evidence there. Get some evidence and present it to science. In the meantime science will continue to collect evidence about real events.

But this thread is not about the hoax in Washington state and selling books and promoting poltergeist hoaxes. It is about a terrible article written by an employee of the TTSA.

 

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macqdor
Posted (edited)

Small percentage of cases. Have been shown to be a hoax.  A relatively small percentage. My compiled data shows less than 3% of all reported cases was proven to be a hoax.

U got a different data set. I'd love to see it?

Poltergeist cases

Hoax 3%

Partial hoax less than 5%

Inconclusive 40%

Proven true 50%+

Other 2% 

Coming from 10,000 cases I've reviewed or am still reviewing. Process started after my own experience. 

@stereologist

Edited by macqdor

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macqdor
Posted (edited)

@stereologist

I'm not getting anything for science.  Science needs to exercise its intellectual curiosity and get off its butt and go searching itself. 

I don't need science to legitimize my experience.  No one does.  Science is not omnipotent where facts are considered. 

 

Edited by macqdor

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stereologist

Almost every case of poltergeist activity has been shown to be a hoax.

A great case of hoaxing was the Aussie case in Humpty Doo. 

There are no cases of poltergeist activity that have been researched and shown to be real.

Hoaxes like the Humpty Doo case are well over 50%.

It is not unusual for real investigations to be prevented. Who wants their hoax to be outed? 

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stereologist
32 minutes ago, macqdor said:

@stereologist

I'm not getting anything for science.  Science needs to exercise its intellectual curiosity and get off its butt and go searching itself. 

I don't need science to legitimize my experience.  No one does.  Science is not omnipotent where facts are considered. 

 

In other words you have no evidence. 

Why should science waste their time looking into a hoax such as the Washington state hoax?

You don't want science to reveal y our hoax. 

A simple way of covering up your hoax is to avoid producing evidence.

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macqdor
Posted (edited)

@stereologist

Humpty Doo case was not deemed a hoax.  

 

FYI -  A career skeptic deeming a case a hoax doesn't make it a hoax LOL

 

You need to re-read the definition of the word hoax   LOL

 

hoax has to be proven just like everything else. Not occam's razor 

 

presenting evidence to forum members doesn't either.   

 

Edited by macqdor

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esoteric_toad

The claims that most poltergeist cases haven't been proven to be hoaxes is silly in itself and says a lot.

Where are the cases reported to? Who is doing the proving/disproving? Where is that information centralized to be analyzed?

If this were the situation as described, that these "beings" have such power and apparently cannot be stopped/recorded and they make any and all evidence gathering impossible I would think that reports of these things would be making international headline news, not found on dubious web pages and youtube videos. Governments would be all over this, some sort of entity able to create chaos and possibly worse and they would, according to some, completely helpless to do anything. If that is not a threat to a nations security what else could it be?

I'll take a guess, they ARE concerned but keep it secret. The mainstream medias treatment (short stories, mocking stories, ignoring it all together) is part of the cover up!

I just cannot imagine all of academia ignoring something that could make them internationally famous for the rest of history passing up the chance to discover some sort of intelligent non-human/trans dimensional being. That makes zero sense.

In the area where I live (like virtually ever area where people live) there are claims of haunted locations. There is a building near the railroad tracks that is now a restaurant (has been for decades, name changes but always a restaurant). Every single year, around Halloween usually, the story makes the rounds. There's even a relatively famous photo of a 'ghost' taken from the upstairs area that has made its way into several books regarding ghosts in the U.S. You would think with something so haunted it would be studied, inspected, under constant surveillance and when one thing didn't work other tests and attempts would be made to figure out what was going on. Instead the only thing that happens is once a year, are Halloween, they pull out the spooky picture, tell stories and business picks up. That's it. Why is that? Simply put, people like spooky stuff. They like believing in the completely uncontrollable, things that fall outside of normal things, they like "paranormal" things. It adds a bit of magic to what many find a mundane and boring world. That does not make it real though.

What we do know is this:

People believe all sorts of crazy irrational things.

People like attention, good and bad.

People will continue lies rather than fess up sometimes.

People will create hoaxes for fun, for attention, for profit.

People can misunderstand events and assign ridiculous causes.

People often do not apply critical thinking to situations that fall out of "normal circumstances"

People make terrible eye witnesses in a lot of cases.

That's just a tiny of a fraction of what people can believe and do. Just that tiny bit is enough to question ANY "paranormal"/"supernatural" account. That is why evidence has to be gathered, real evidence. That is why it has to be looked at critically, or as some might see it, harshly. 

 

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Minimalists
17 hours ago, macqdor said:

 

Depends where you're getting your data from?

I can't speak to bigfoot, fairies, astral projections, etc. I can only speak to phenomena's I've seen. Phenomena's my friends have seen. Skeptics love to ignore or gloss over the fact that multiple witnesses, not just the house occupant.  But witnesses like law enforcement, fire men, 1st responders, clergy, list goes on.  Have arrived on the scene (house) and witnessed things themselves.  I'm not talking about solo witness.  I'm talking 4 to 5 people witnessing the same thing at the same time (in the same room).   House guest in my house saw a flower pot fly across the room.  They saw it better than me based on where they were located when the event occurred.    They heard the loud bangs. The loud footsteps. A previous tenant 5 yrs before we moved had similar, almost identical activity.   Almost worst than ours for the short duration they lived in the home.     GF and I weren't even together at the time.   Only a person with life long membership in the Obtuse fan club would disavow something like that.   

Hoaxing? Fakery?  Disillusion, stressed out, money grabbing.  Those are dismissive conjectures IMO.  Speculation on steroids.    I'm sure there are a lot of Dr's, lawyers, policemen, EMT staff that would take offense to them being viewed as weak and stressed  to the point of no longer being able to tell the difference between real and unreal (paranormal).

No human being skeptics included should ignore their God given common sense or should I say (as a means of appeasing skeptics) your nature given common sense.

 

We have an old proverb in Texas that says

"don't p*** down my back, and try to tell me its raining."

We know what we saw, when we saw it.

 

Prove it to the masses.  That's not our job.


Science needs to get busy.  Come down off its pedestal somewhat and investigate "geist" phenomena themselves.

Lose that fear of being looked at as a loon.

@stereologist

 

No you made the ridiculous comment that cases have been investigated.   I can assure you this one hasn't.  Doesn't make the event less real.

There's an extreme backlog of "geist" incidents that have NEVER been investigated.  This is just one of them.

 

 

 

 
Quote

Skeptics love to ignore or gloss over the fact that multiple witnesses, not just the house occupant.  But witnesses like law enforcement, fire men, 1st responders, clergy, list goes on. 

The above maybe taking your post out of context but it caught my eye immediately....Witnesses in a court of law maybe a slam dunk but in the actual world of science they do not mean squat...We some how tend to think that just becuase some one is wearing a badge, fire hat or cross it makes their accounts credible. It don't! I have said this numerous times here and it bears repeating "humans are poor data taking devices!" Per Neil Degrasse Tyson. Now does all this mean they are lying out their ass? No. It simply means that in order for this stuff to be accepted by science it has to have actual verifiable evidence that can be tested. I don't doubt these people actually see this stuff but in real life it's going to take more than just they saw it.

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macqdor
Posted (edited)

Wow you sure youre a human being.  You got so much low regard for the common man. So much cynicism.  Truth be told humans are born with common sense. Firemen, doctors, ambulances driver, ambulance technician,  clergy, rabbi, priest and your average house occupant dont need people like you telling them what they did or didn't see. What arrogance you got.

 

That's the problem with you skeptics your so stilted and egotistical you cant see the forest through the trees. 10,000 reported cases over time by every walks of life. Every culture and continent and according to you! It's all hoaxes or all made up.

I'm so glad I wasn't born so stiff thinking. 

 

@Esoteric Toad

Edited by macqdor

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macqdor
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The above maybe taking your post out of context but it caught my eye immediately....Witnesses in a court of law maybe a slam dunk but in the actual world of science they do not mean squat...We some how tend to think that just becuase some one is wearing a badge, fire hat or cross it makes their accounts credible. It don't! I have said this numerous times here and it bears repeating "humans are poor data taking devices!" Per Neil Degrasse Tyson. Now does all this mean they are lying out their ass? No. It simply means that in order for this stuff to be accepted by science it has to have actual verifiable evidence that can be tested. I don't doubt these people actually see this stuff but in real life it's going to take more than just they saw it

Your frame of mind is similar to esoteric.    Our court system, judicial system depends on witnesses.   Our witnesses always credible?  Can witnesses be discredited?   Of course they can.  Its call cross-examination.  But you're comparing apples to oranges a true and out dated skeptics tactic.    When I'm referring to witnesses I'm referring to people responding to a "geist" disturbance.   The disturbance is still happening when they arrive. No one calls 911 and says 'Hey THERE'S A POLTERGEIST IN MY LIVING ROOM.'  Thats not how it goes it down.      People report disturbances in their home. Disturbance like objects flying. Spontaneous fires, floating debris, constant electrical issues, etc.  They report total chaos.   1st responders, neighbors, relatives, etc descend on the scene and (if their lucky) see and witness the same thing.   

These "geist" attacks don't happen in a vacuum.  At least not all of them. Some actually in a room full of people.  Broad day-light.  You can try to pick at it all you want.  10,000 + people,(more people than that actually)over time are not all liars. Not all hoaxes or mis-identifications.

You may think they are but there not.     Skeptics are too busy trying to protect their world view that they abandon the 1st law of critical thinking.   The law of common sense.

I could take the average  poltergeist report from 334 A.D, from 1411, from 1818, from 1964, from 1985, etc  AND sit it next to a poltergeist report from 2019.  Hide the dates and country origin of both I promise you, you wouldn't know which happened first or where.

Quote

Now does all this mean they are lying out their ass? No. It simply means that in order for this stuff to be accepted by science it has to have actual verifiable evidence that can be tested. I don't doubt these people actually see this stuff but in real life it's going to take more than just they saw it

for science yes. But science is NOT THE decision maker of whats real and whats not.   There are things in existence right now smarter than science.

You can't put a poltergeist in a laboratory.   That's one superiority poltergeist have over scientist. they have over man.  

and just for the record.    There are a lot scientists.  A good percentage I mean.  Physicists, etc that believe in poltergeist.    They can't explain it. But they know based on common sense that where there's this amount of smoke. This amount of reporting.   The "geist" is real.      Are they the minority?  Of course. So am I.       And that's OK.

I think the Universe prefers it that way.  The poltergeist didn't come into existence to gain 100% public acceptance.  Heck no!  The more mystery around it the better.   Its an Enigma . It knows that. It needs that.

 

 

 

@Alien Origins

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esoteric_toad
38 minutes ago, macqdor said:

Wow you sure youre a human being.  You got so much low regard for the common man. So much cynicism.  Truth be told humans are born with common sense. Firemen, doctors, ambulances driver, ambulance technician,  clergy, rabbi, priest and your average house occupant dont need people like you telling them what they did or didn't see. What arrogance you got.

 

That's the problem with you skeptics your so stilted and egotistical you cant see the forest through the trees. 10,000 reported cases over time by every walks of life. Every culture and continent and according to you! It's all hoaxes or all made up.

I'm so glad I wasn't born so stiff thinking. 

 

@Esoteric Toad

Stiff thinking? You are rigid in your convictions, completely unbending in your beliefs and act as though it is an afront to even ask for more evidence.

It is not cynical to considered human failings. Thank all that is good that those same "failings" are considered in our Justice system (as flawed as it can be). I cannot imagine a jury made up of people who do not consider them. 

Once again it seems that the only thing acceptable to you is everyone's agreeing with you. 

The evidence, by any definition, simply isn't there. You BELIEVE otherwise. That's awesome for you. 

It's arguing religion at this point, nothing to be gained unless everyone accepts your faith.

I still would love to know why governments haven't been freaking out over these seemingly omnipotent beings and the lack of every major learning center searching for these beings. Why look to other world's when we have truly alien and dangerous beings here??

 

 

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Minimalists
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, macqdor said:

Your frame of mind is similar to esoteric.    Our court system, judicial system depends on witnesses.   Our witnesses always credible?  Can witnesses be discredited?   Of course they can.  Its call cross-examination.  But you're comparing apples to oranges a true and out dated skeptics tactic.    When I'm referring to witnesses I'm referring to people responding to a "geist" disturbance.   The disturbance is still happening when they arrive. No one calls 911 and says 'Hey THERE'S A POLTERGEIST IN MY LIVING ROOM.'  Thats not how it goes it down.      People report disturbances in their home. Disturbance like objects flying. Spontaneous fires, floating debris, constant electrical issues, etc.  They report total chaos.   1st responders, neighbors, relatives, etc descend on the scene and (if their lucky) see and witness the same thing.   

These "geist" attacks don't happen in a vacuum.  At least not all of them. Some actually in a room full of people.  Broad day-light.  You can try to pick at it all you want.  10,000 + people,(more people than that actually)over time are not all liars. Not all hoaxes or mis-identifications.

You may think they are but there not.     Skeptics are too busy trying to protect their world view that they abandon the 1st law of critical thinking.   The law of common sense.

I could take the average  poltergeist report from 334 A.D, from 1411, from 1818, from 1964, from 1985, etc  AND sit it next to a poltergeist report from 2019.  Hide the dates and country origin of both I promise you, you wouldn't know which happened first or where.

for science yes. But science is NOT THE decision maker of whats real and whats not.   There are things in existence right now smarter than science.

You can't put a poltergeist in a laboratory.   That's one superiority poltergeist have over scientist. they have over man.  

and just for the record.    There are a lot scientists.  A good percentage I mean.  Physicists, etc that believe in poltergeist.    They can't explain it. But they know based on common sense that where there's this amount of smoke. This amount of reporting.   The "geist" is real.      Are they the minority?  Of course. So am I.       And that's OK.

I think the Universe prefers it that way.  The poltergeist didn't come into existence to gain 100% public acceptance.  Heck no!  The more mystery around it the better.   Its an Enigma . It knows that. It needs that.

 

 

 

@Alien Origins

 
Quote

When I'm referring to witnesses I'm referring to people responding to a "geist" disturbance.   

You should have made that clear.

Quote

But you're comparing apples to oranges a true and out dated skeptics tactic. 

No. I am comparing witness testimony in a court of law and witness testimony in a paranormal event. 

Quote

 Skeptics are too busy trying to protect their world view that they abandon the 1st law of critical thinking.   The law of common sense.

I for one am not trying to protect anything....

Quote

10,000 + people,(more people than that actually)over time are not all liars. Not all hoaxes or mis-identifications.

How do you know the exact numbers? Conformation biased is not evidence...You see things that confirm your belief and run with it. Now having said that we all do it.

Quote

You can't put a poltergeist in a laboratory. 

Exactly! Thats the reason most or part of the reason this stuff gets denied by the scientific community....

 

Quote

I could take the average  poltergeist report from 334 A.D, from 1411, from 1818, from 1964, from 1985, etc  AND sit it next to a poltergeist report from 2019.  Hide the dates and country origin of both I promise you, you wouldn't know which happened first or where.

And this has what exactly to do with the price of tea in China. What difference does it make what happened first?

Quote

But science is NOT THE decision maker of whats real and whats not. 

Neither are we. 

Edited by Alien Origins
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macqdor

I think the people who've seen. Who've witnessed "geist" phenomena and understand some don't call it that.  Would have a problem with your interpretation.   With your thinking that they don't know what it is they saw.

I know that's your job as a skeptic but on the flip side.  You should really ask questions.   Asking questions is always better that knee jerk "oh its all BS."    

An intelligent person ask's questions. Now you might not like their answers.   And thats fine.   But at least you've asked a question.    I could careless about the scientific community.  Science has its place with certain things and certain things it does not.   The "geist" paradigm and the science paradigm dont mix.  They never will. At least not in our life time.  Doesn't make the poltergeist less real.  You skeptics over focus on one thing and in doing so miss the other 90% of things being reported.     Quite the opposite actually.

You skeptics experts at:

  • straw man tactics
  • Occam's Razor thinking
  • Cynicism
  • gate keeping (stifling dialogue)
  • character assassinations and
  • mud slinging

I can actually see your arms folded around your brain.   I'm referring to one's attitude.

That's IMO is the mindset of a skeptic.

 

LIES.jpg

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esoteric_toad

Why isn't every government on the planet investigating these omnipotent beings? Where are the leading academics across the world dumping there research into finding this "alien" life that is among us? Why is the media ignoring this? 

Or are all of the above a bunch of evil skeptics and part of a conspiracy to hide the truth?

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macqdor

@esoteric_toad

Theres a post somewhere in this community of the CIA, NSA, and other govt agencies investigating "geist" phenomena.  Investigating Psi research.  Those investigations i.e. research are ongoing. 

Google Poltergeist and the acronym CIA, KGB, etc . Or parapsychology or Psi and read the documents recently made available by the Freedom of Information act. 

 

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