Christchurch shooting

[Black Red Devil]

Without going into detail, it appears this kind of hatred was fueled by events that have happened in the UK with Asian gang rapes, South African white farmers, Islamic immigration into western society and previous terrorist attacks, all stuff included in this guys manifesto as a reason for the attack. 

Unfortunately this will not be a lone wolf incident IMO. The resurgence in Europe of populist right wing political Party's and rhetoric from important world figures like Trump shows that people in the west are and have started to 'accept' extreme Nationalist views.  All extremists are bad, whether they're religiously or politically motivated and the more people give voice to these views, the more the divide between opposing extremes which can only lead to more massacres and violence. I fear this is only the tip of the iceberg and watch out if Le Pen wins the 2019 elections in France

This guy chose NZ because of its loose gun laws, as simple as that.  NZ is a great, peaceful and genuine nation and my heart goes out to all the victims and their families but unfortunately they'll have to change their gun laws.

 

[Habitat]

6 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

There's an article on Cracked.com on why conspiracy theories are destroying the world.  This guy's 'manifesto' seems to have a few conspiracy theories as it's basis.

1. He seems to be "channelling" Charlie Manson.
2. He's peddling into the Muslim birth-rate conspiracy.
3. His hopes of gun control igniting conflict echo some themes from Port Arthur Conspiracy.
4. His reason for chosen for choosing New Zealand, lean into NZ being a proving ground for the globalist agenda.

His support for protectionism and immigration control has been shown to be economy killer here in Australia.  He's apparently unaware of 'Populate or Perish'.

His delusion will remain on the internet, waiting to be found by someone who's all messed up with nowhere to blow.

Lies and BS should be exposed rather than hidden.

 

 

This bloke's ideas are not that uncommon, there are many who resent migrants that are visibly not part of their culture, for various reasons, a lot of it born of ignorance and xenophobia, but also because they are seen as competition for available jobs. What sets this bloke apart, is that he was one of a small number prepared to act, and act violently, to make his point. The vast majority of them, who might wave flags, and get into some push and shove, are not going to throw their life away on a murder spree, as a protest gesture. A few lemons had to line up on the slot machine for this "jackpot" to happen, but if poor gun control was one of the reels on the machine, the shame is unutterable.

['Walt' E. Kurtz]

25 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Without going into detail, it appears this kind of hatred was fueled by events that have happened in the UK with Asian gang rapes, South African white farmers, Islamic immigration into western society and previous terrorist attacks, all stuff included in this guys manifesto as a reason for the attack.  The alt right is on the rise and is stirring up hatred as can be seen on one of their extremist sites with posters actually celebrating the shooting. link

Unfortunately this will not be a lone wolf incident IMO. The resurgence in Europe of populist right wing political Party's and rhetoric from important world figures like Trump shows that people in the west are and have started to 'accept' extreme Nationalist views.  All extremists are bad, whether they're religiously or politically motivated and the more people give voice to these views, the more the divide between opposing extremes which can only lead to more massacres and violence. I fear this is only the tip of the iceberg and watch out if Le Pen wins the 2019 elections in France

 

The sad truth is that the extreme nationalist parties is once again marching in Europe, it is not only Le Pen and it's starting to frankly get pretty serious to the point where people dont dare to criticzise them in fear of reprisals. the Swedish democrats one of the leading parties in sweden was formed by two former SS veterans. I doubt he choosed NZ cause of their gun laws, Norway got strict gun laws still Breivik managed to kill 77 and wound 315. 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Impedancer

[Black Red Devil]

6 minutes ago, Impedancer said:

The sad truth is that the extreme nationalist parties is once again marching in Europe, it is not only Le Pen and it's starting to frankly get pretty serious to the point where people dont dare to criticzise them in fear of reprisals. the Swedish democrats one of the leading parties in sweden was formed by two former SS veterans. 

I didn't say it's only Le Pen, in fact I mentioned the rise of populist right wingers in Europe, not only France, but France has been at the centre of Islamic activity and has almost a 10% Muslim population.  If France goes right wing....

[+susieice]

The suspect appeared in a closed court and was charged with one count of murder. More counts will follow.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/15/asia/christchurch-mosque-shooting-intl/index.html

[Michelle]

It's amazing how quickly the blame swings to an entire political group of people. We would be reminded constantly of how it was a lone wolf or a small cell if the attack had been by Muslim extremists.

[Golden Duck]

7 minutes ago, Habitat said:

This bloke's ideas are not that uncommon, there are many who resent migrants that are visibly not part of their culture, for various reasons, a lot of it born of ignorance and xenophobia, but also because they are seen as competition for available jobs. What sets this bloke apart, is that he was one of a small number prepared to act, and act violently, to make his point. The vast majority of them, who might wave flags, and get into some push and shove, are not going to throw their life away on a murder spree, as a protest gesture. A few lemons had to line up on the slot machine for this "jackpot" to happen, but if poor gun control was one of the reels on the machine, the shame is unutterable.

OK, but the argument that "We are reproducing below sub-replacement fertility; and, They are above" is the extra spice in the mix to cook up "Sharia is coming".  I haven't seen the birth-rate argument used against any other group.  The solution to mitigate this fear is to literally "make love, not war".  However, he has some concerns about overpopulation and expresses an affinity for the system of government in China. 

NZ apparently wasn't his first choice.  But, ending its peaceful history was something he could use.  Violent conflict from the gun control debate is a goal.  He would've gone to wherever he could get the guns.

He just smacks of a person immersed in conspiracy theories with no counter to his self-assessed infallibility. The unbalanced feeding on unbalanced.

[Habitat]

Political violence, to the extent this is,  has no justification in a democratic system, I couldn't care where he gets his rationalizations from, people of this bent have the opportunity to get elected and change laws in the direction they want, but can only convince a tiny minority. They want the tail to wag the dog, and when it does not, sometimes get very nasty about it.

[+and-then]

4 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Political violence, to the extent this is,  has no justification in a democratic system,

I agree.  I think the rise of angry people on the Right is due, in part, to their beliefs, traditions and cultures being disrespected, even demonized.  There is no true justification for murder but people would be foolish to think that a government can simply ignore the concerns of millions of its citizens and not have to eventually pay a price.  FTR, I wouldn't want to live in THIS sick b******'s world any more than I'd live under the Sharia.  It seems he wanted to bring Civil War and eventual Balkanization to America.  I'm not sure if he just hates us along with everything else or if he imagined such chaos here would change the world in a way that would benefit Snow White... The hateful punk just made it open season on the very people he claims to want to "help".

[odas]

32 minutes ago, Michelle said:

It's amazing how quickly the blame swings to an entire political group of people. We would be reminded constantly of how it was a lone wolf or a small cell if the attack had been by Muslim extremists.

Really? Welcome to my, our, muslim world. Thousands and thousands post have been made blaming the entire muslim world, islam and the Quran for terrorism. Now, when it os obvious that terrorists are not only muslims you come up with a pathetic excuse. Shame on you!!!

Hatred, lies, desception, are the reason for such murders, regardless of the bakcground.

White nazi terrorists are the equivalent of the islamic radical terrorist. I do not care if you have a problem with me mentioning the "fine" white nazis.

Shame on you!!! Disgusting!!!.

May God bless every victim of hatred and may God punish all terrorists and their supportes.

[Likely Guy]

9 minutes ago, and then said:

The hateful punk just made it open season on the very people he claims to want to "help".

That's the goal of every terrorist isn't it?... the slippery slope bathed in blood.

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Habitat said:

This bloke's ideas are not that uncommon, there are many who resent migrants that are visibly not part of their culture, for various reasons, a lot of it born of ignorance and xenophobia, but also because they are seen as competition for available jobs. What sets this bloke apart, is that he was one of a small number prepared to act, and act violently, to make his point. The vast majority of them, who might wave flags, and get into some push and shove, are not going to throw their life away on a murder spree, as a protest gesture. A few lemons had to line up on the slot machine for this "jackpot" to happen, but if poor gun control was one of the reels on the machine, the shame is unutterable.

1

NZ's gun regulations are far more invasive of what American's have come to believe of as Rights than Americans would accept.  Everyone who wants to own one has to jump through multiple government requirements (some of which I'd not mind here).  Every gun owner must be licensed and prove they understand how to safely handle and store the weapon.  Bottom line seems to be that if a person has never had a criminal record and becomes radicalized after acquiring the gun, NOTHING is going to prevent them from doing what he did.  The PM has guaranteed the laws will be changing.  I didn't realize the PM could dictate law in New Zealand.  The bolded is true for now but don't underestimate what the constant pot-stirring of the media can lead to.

[Habitat]

2 minutes ago, and then said:

NZ's gun regulations are far more invasive of what American's have come to believe of as Rights than Americans would accept.  Everyone who wants to own one has to jump through multiple government requirements (some of which I'd not mind here).  Every gun owner must be licensed and prove they understand how to safely handle and store the weapon.  Bottom line seems to be that if a person has never had a criminal record and becomes radicalized after acquiring the gun, NOTHING is going to prevent them from doing what he did.  The PM has guaranteed the laws will be changing.  I didn't realize the PM could dictate law in New Zealand.  The bolded is true for now but don't underestimate what the constant pot-stirring of the media can lead to.

No, the PM cannot change the laws, but I doubt anyone will be arguing loudly against, this time. It appears the semi-auto rifles were obtained legally, but the magazines were illegal. I guess of he has found a source for those, he'd also have been able to source the guns, if the law had prohibited that, but I'm sure it will all come out, exactly what happened. WHoever supplied those magazines, should be worried. 

[Likely Guy]

48 minutes ago, Michelle said:

It's amazing how quickly the blame swings to an entire political group of people. We would be reminded constantly of how it was a lone wolf or a small cell if the attack had been by Muslim extremists.

I blame all extremists equally. They have no place in a polite society.

[Likely Guy]

8 minutes ago, and then said:

The bolded is true for now but don't underestimate what the constant pot-stirring of the media can lead to.

In this case I'd blame social media in general and 8chan specifically.

[+and-then]

1 minute ago, Likely Guy said:

In this case I'd blame social media in general and 8chan specifically.

In this case, yes.  I really believe that instant, anonymous communication is breaking down social mores to a point where our culture is becoming incoherent.  It's like a mind turned in on itself and causing madness.

[Likely Guy]

2 minutes ago, and then said:

In this case, yes.  I really believe that instant, anonymous communication is breaking down social mores to a point where our culture is becoming incoherent.  It's like a mind turned in on itself and causing madness.

Holy crap! We've never agreed this much.

[Michelle]

16 minutes ago, odas said:

Really? Welcome to my, our, muslim world. Thousands and thousands post have been made blaming the entire muslim world, islam and the Quran for terrorism. Now, when it os obvious that terrorists are not only muslims you come up with a pathetic excuse. Shame on you!!!

Hatred, lies, desception, are the reason for such murders, regardless of the bakcground.

White nazi terrorists are the equivalent of the islamic radical terrorist. I do not care if you have a problem with me mentioning the "fine" white nazis.

Shame on you!!! Disgusting!!!.

May God bless every victim of hatred and may God punish all terrorists and their supportes.

And you have never heard me say anything of the sort!!! 

I don't know where your hatred of me comes from but it is most definitely misguided. You can wallow in it for all I care. Blame your preconceived ideas about me, but you can't blame me!

Shame!!! Disgusting!!!

[Dejarma]

1 hour ago, Habitat said:

a lot of it born of ignorance

ignorance of what exactly?

[Dejarma]

26 minutes ago, odas said:

May God bless every victim of hatred and may God punish all terrorists and their supportes.

stupid selfish sociopathic human idiots kill people== ANY kind of ideology is just an excuse/ a pathetic justification for being a stupid selfish sociopathic human idiot

[Habitat]

Just now, Dejarma said:

ignorance of what exactly?

Largely ignorance of society at large. If you imagine migrants are the cause of your life's woes, the odds are the real causes are much closer to home, in your own failings. This character appears to have had a very spotty employment record, and "wasn't interested in education". That was never going to end well, and how much easier to scapegoat some other group, and blame them, than applying himself productively.

[+susieice]

28 minutes ago, Habitat said:

No, the PM cannot change the laws, but I doubt anyone will be arguing loudly against, this time. It appears the semi-auto rifles were obtained legally, but the magazines were illegal. I guess of he has found a source for those, he'd also have been able to source the guns, if the law had prohibited that, but I'm sure it will all come out, exactly what happened. WHoever supplied those magazines, should be worried. 

Things like that can be bought online, can't they? I really don't know but I think so.

[Unusual Tournament]

2 minutes ago, susieice said:

Things like that can be bought online, can't they? I really don't know but I think so.

or made. 

[Dejarma]

1 minute ago, Habitat said:

Largely ignorance of society at large. If you imagine migrants are the cause of your life's woes, the odds are the real causes are much closer to home, in your own failings. This character appears to have had a very spotty employment record, and "wasn't interested in education". That was never going to end well, and how much easier to scapegoat some other group, and blame them, than applying himself productively.

no i disagree! in the UK the influx of immigrants IS the problem! any Indian/ African/ Pakistani/ Jamaican/ Polish etc etc= that have lived here for many generations will tell you that!

it has nothing to do with where you're from & what you believe! 

if there's no room in your shed to store any more 'stuff' then there's no room & that's it= basic common sense (well, it should be)!?!-- where the 'stuff' comes from is irrelevant.........

[Habitat]

6 minutes ago, susieice said:

Things like that can be bought online, can't they? I really don't know but I think so.

This is sure to be the focus of intense investigation, in this case. The fact that the NZ PM is talking about gun laws already, is more or less an admission the ball has been dropped by her predecessors.