Attempting 2 merge physics and the paranormal

[psyche101]

2 minutes ago, macqdor said:

Discredit  the writer.  Label him crazy.

Doesn't get more cliche than that. 

It is what it is. He delves into crackpotery on a regular basis. Do you think that's irrelevant? 

[macqdor]

That's your opinion. You're entitled to it.

Calling people who's views are outside your norm "crazy" ironically IMO is equally crazy.  Its clitche

[stereologist]

When we have such a stream of nonsense it is of course expected that it is nothing but nonsense.

The only thing worse than homeopathy is probably water memory.

It is so funny when people claim that physics and paranormal are two sides of the same coin when they don't even know what science is, a theory is, evidence is, or anything related to science.

 

[stereologist]

17 minutes ago, macqdor said:

That's your opinion. You're entitled to it.

Calling people who's views are outside your norm "crazy" ironically IMO is equally crazy.  Its clitche

Claiming that pointing out nonsense is based on "outside your norm" is a sign of being ridiculous.

The issue is that the items are all clearly wrong.

Homeopathy is demonstrably wrong. (testing shows that to be the case)

Water memory is demonstrably wrong. (testing shows that to be the case)

ID is demonstrably wrong. (Examples such as the mammalian vs cephalopod eye show that to be wrong)

The no-evidence paranormal cannot be compared to the rigorously studied theories of physics.

Failed comparisons of physics to the paranormal is a cliche.

[macqdor]

guess you kind of have to be there.

Numerous physicist. Nobel Piece Prize winners have stated their belief in the paranormal.   

Men who've advanced the field they belong in have stated their belief in the paranormal.    Scientists. Physicist! 

[stereologist]

I love the pointless claims that someone believes in the paranormal.

That does not make it so.

Who thinks it does not make it so.

Evidence please?

[psyche101]

11 minutes ago, macqdor said:

That's your opinion. You're entitled to it.

No, its not opinion. He really does promote that idiocy. 

11 minutes ago, macqdor said:

Calling people who's views are outside your norm "crazy" ironically IMO is equally crazy.  Its clitche

They aren't 'views' homeopathy is outright fraud, water memory is simply ridiculous and is not supported by logic let alone science, ID is unsupported creationist nonsense (religion using science terms to sound valid) and Cold Fusion has proven itself to be a pipe dream decade after decade. 

Is it crazy to recognise those facts is it? 

[psyche101]

13 minutes ago, macqdor said:

guess you kind of have to be there.

Numerous physicist. Nobel Piece Prize winners have stated their belief in the paranormal.   

Men who've advanced the field they belong in have stated their belief in the paranormal.    Scientists. Physicist! 

It doesn't matter if billions profess belief in something. If it's not supported, its not supported. 

[Habitat]

On 19/03/2019 at 11:50 AM, stereologist said:

Thanks for yet another excuse.

 

Keep them rolling.

Excuse ? Nope. I never did promise delivery of proof or evidence, so no excuse is needed. But, carry on imagining you "know" this subject is just void.

[stereologist]

3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Excuse ? Nope. I never did promise delivery of proof or evidence, so no excuse is needed. But, carry on imagining you "know" this subject is just void.

Maybe I misinterpreted this comment as an excuse: " For me, there has been an abundance of convincing evidence, if it is not "open source" for the inspection of the masses, as it seemingly is, there isn't much I can do about that. "

If so I apologize.

I interpreted it to say that there is plenty of evidence, but it is hidden from view and it can't be shown to me.

I took that to be an excuse. I'd be interested in a clarification.

[Timothy]

8 hours ago, macqdor said:

@Timothy

Ive provided tons of evidence. Just not to you specifically and this community.  

You and this community has yet to demonstrate the comprehension or better yet in the phenomena known as Poltergeist.  You have however demonstrated the art of playing gotcha. 

Career skeptics get nothing.

Sorry.

PS

No I'm not.

 For arguments sake; how would one go about obtaining said evidence? Sincerely curious.

Glad you’ve finally admitted that you’ve never provided any evidence here.

[macqdor]

Quote

 For arguments sake; how would one go about obtaining said evidence? Sincerely curious.

Glad you’ve finally admitted that you’ve never provided any evidence here

Of course I haven't.  There no paranormal evidence (show me what you got forum) here..  That's a fool's errand. Providing evidence.

I've done over 100 interviews last year (and in doing so) revealed evidence LIVE on the show.  Producers sent it out to their listeners before, during and after the show.   Steve Mera, Jenny Ashford and other investigators did the same thing.    

@Timothy

Quote

 For arguments sake; how would one go about obtaining said evidence? Sincerely curious.

Answer:   google The Bothell Hell House radio interviews

 

[Timothy]

3 hours ago, macqdor said:

*snip*

@Timothy

Answer:   google The Bothell Hell House radio interviews

@UM-Bot, hold my beer. I may not be back for a long while. 

[ChrLzs]

And after you check those free tapes out, you can buy the book macqdor is advertising on the front page (ie Home, not the Forum front page, and you'll need to be logged out to see the ads...).

 

He's not spamming this stuff with an ulterior reason, oh no.

For a laugh, Google "bothell hell house ads" and just have a long hard look at the efforts he's going to...  Me, I don't think the forum should be (ab)used like that.

 

Just 'keeping them honest'.....

[stereologist]

I love this quote "That's a fool's errand. Providing evidence."

That is what every scientist does in every day work in every article printed. They provide evidence.

The real world is built on evidence and not the tripe that passes for the nonsense of paranormal claims and the hoax of the Washington poltergeist.

The real word which we all depend on is based on studies where evidence is produced. Everything from transportation, to agriculture, to housing, to telecommunications, to basic research is all based on evidence gathering and reporting. 

The paranormal arena hates evidence because it reveals that the hoaxes.

[Habitat]

2 minutes ago, stereologist said:

I love this quote "That's a fool's errand. Providing evidence."

That is what every scientist does in every day work in every article printed. They provide evidence.

The real world is built on evidence and not the tripe that passes for the nonsense of paranormal claims and the hoax of the Washington poltergeist.

The real word which we all depend on is based on studies where evidence is produced. Everything from transportation, to agriculture, to housing, to telecommunications, to basic research is all based on evidence gathering and reporting. 

The paranormal arena hates evidence because it reveals that the hoaxes.

I understand that the rule of the phenomenal world, is reason and logic. But strange things do happen, that are exceptions to that rule, as difficult as it is to accept. But you don't have to accept it. What you should do, is just leave it as a possibility, that you have not encountered personally, or has been established as fact by science. Because, in truth, you don't know for certain. What's to lose by so doing ?

[stereologist]

5 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I understand that the rule of the phenomenal world, is reason and logic. But strange things do happen, that are exceptions to that rule, as difficult as it is to accept. But you don't have to accept it. What you should do, is just leave it as a possibility, that you have not encountered personally, or has been established as fact by science. Because, in truth, you don't know for certain. What's to lose by so doing ?

You do realize that has nothing at all to do with my post.

The simple fact is that paranormal fringe and especially those promoting hoaxes and selling books that are hoaxes do not want evidence getting out. That would expose their hoax. That is why they state quite clearly and quite often, "That's a fool's errand. Providing evidence."

But as to your post, strange things happening does not mean reason and logic cannot be applied. Avoiding the application of logic and reason and leaving it as a possibility is laziness.

Science as you know cannot prove. It never suggests that something is known for certain. For example, I cannot state with 100% certainty that if I hold a rock in my hand that it will fall when released. I have not held every rock at every point in time and released it. But, I think we can be fairly sure that it always drops. There do not seem to  be any exceptions to the rule or even any events that would suggest that anything else would happen.

Those believing in the paranormal want to hold onto their personal experiences and not investigate them. They want to think that there is something special out there that is unknown and mysterious. If you apply the close minded technique of never thinking about it or evaluating it or looking into the issue then you do have a self made mystery. It's only a mystery because the person refuses to look further.

A game to play with a child is peek-a-boo. The child sees the person disappears because the face is covered. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peekaboo

Quote

Peekaboo is thought by developmental psychologists to demonstrate an infant's inability to understand object permanence.

But we develop the ability to look further and understand that the person is hiding.

This simple example of mystery can be extended to other issues as well. Is that a UFO or can a better view tell me it is a plane? The same sort of thinking can be applied to many areas.

If there is the paranormal then look into it and determine what happened and maybe how it happened. But avoiding looking into the incident of interest suggests it really wasn't worth investigating.

[SecretSanta]

1 hour ago, ChrLzs said:

And after you check those free tapes out, you can buy the book macqdor is advertising on the front page (ie Home, not the Forum front page, and you'll need to be logged out to see the ads...).

 

He's not spamming this stuff with an ulterior reason, oh no.

For a laugh, Google "bothell hell house ads" and just have a long hard look at the efforts he's going to...  Me, I don't think the forum should be (ab)used like that.

 

Just 'keeping them honest'.....

And after you watch the free videos you can buy/rent the earth-shattering documentary done by the British guys. You know the one that proves once and for all that poltergeists exist. 

 

[Habitat]

22 minutes ago, stereologist said:

Those believing in the paranormal want to hold onto their personal experiences and not investigate them. They want to think that there is something special out there that is unknown and mysterious.

Not necessarily, at all. You are just assuming that, because you want to believe there is nothing to any of this stuff. That isn't a scientific attitude. Having said that though, I don't think any science will get to the bottom of it. Which is not to say this field is not contaminated by a vast amount of false reportage, and there are too many people who do want to believe in it. The attitude to have, is not to want it to be either true or false. Whatever is, is. I think were you to be scrupulously honest, you'd have to admit you want it to be just BS. There is no scholarship in that. And there is no compulsion to guess. I'd reckon a few years ago, if I'd have been forced to guess one way or the other, I'd have said the so-called paranormal was BS, probably because I just could not see what purpose there would be in it, for anything. But, I would have been wrong. Still, I would not have insisted on it being the case, I didn't know, or care that much. 

Edited March 22, 2019 by Habitat

[stereologist]

32 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Not necessarily, at all. You are just assuming that, because you want to believe there is nothing to any of this stuff. That isn't a scientific attitude. Having said that though, I don't think any science will get to the bottom of it. Which is not to say this field is not contaminated by a vast amount of false reportage, and there are too many people who do want to believe in it. The attitude to have, is not to want it to be either true or false. Whatever is, is. I think were you to be scrupulously honest, you'd have to admit you want it to be just BS. There is no scholarship in that. And there is no compulsion to guess. I'd reckon a few years ago, if I'd have been forced to guess one way or the other, I'd have said the so-called paranormal was BS, probably because I just could not see what purpose there would be in it, for anything. But, I would have been wrong. Still, I would not have insisted on it being the case, I didn't know, or care that much. 

Sure there can be false reportage. There are also mistakes and misinterpretations. The fact that there are large numbers of peoples believing something does not make it so. Take an issue like abortion in the US. Half of the population thinks one way and half the other way. That's a lot of people with strong opinions. My interest is why does it seem to cut the population in two. So many people thinking one way or the other does not make it right or wrong. 

Do I want it to be BS? Not really. The problem is that I only see BS. That might very well be because actual evidence is being smothered by what you referred to as false reportage. If I were to think of an example of a possible interesting phenomenon it might be the Marfa lights. If there is any mysterious happening out there it is not the nightly gathering that points to everything out there and says mysterious. Maybe there is something mysterious out by Marfa, maybe not. The false reportage certainly does make it difficult to seek out anything that might be of interest.

I think a lot of these mysterious events really tell us not about what is happening, but rather about the workings of the human mind. Just as optical illusions are seen as misinterpretations by our visual system I think that a good possibility is that the way our minds work leads us to make misinterpretations of the world suggesting the paranormal. We are not all the same and some people are more likely to see the paranormal as an explanation than others. There are even others when shown that it is a trick or a misunderstanding on their part are unwilling to let go of the idea of the paranormal.

Does physics explain the paranormal? Not really, but psychology might.

[macqdor]

@stereologist

I think you still dont have a full grasp of the word paranormal. Of what it actually means.

Quote

Does physics explain the paranormal? Not really, but psychology might.

There are events considered paranormal that defy the laws of physics. Or our current understanding of the law of physics..  Same thing with psychology.   Most parapsychologists that I've met and talked to our psychologists also. So there

People who've encountered inexplicable things / unexplainable things myself included speak of

• objects levitating
• objects traversing through walls
• objects traversing through floor. Thru ceiling
• raining (literally) raining inside a house.  I haven't seen that but I've read about it
• water puddle phenomena. that I have seen
• objects falling/appearing out of thin air.

Those are just few of the phenomena being reported that science doesn't have an answer for.  Keep in mind when Im speak about objects traveling through wall, through solid surface I'm being literal.      That does happen.  It has happened.  So has seeing weighing more than 200lbs levitate and project across the room at remarkable speeds.    Can physics explain that?     One day maybe.  Right now I dont think so.  And thats fine.  That's not a slight at physics.   There are things that exist in this world that science (physics included) has yet to explain.   If your argument is well show me these things you say have happened. Show me an object going through a wall.  Full stop.  Thats not going to happen.  Not because I'm lying. Most people who see this stuff aren't liars.   Majority of these things I've just mentioned excel in being evasive.    There is an intelligence factor that people love to over look when speaking about the paranormal. 

Example

If I put a fire ant under a glass dome and gave it a piece or Oreo cookie.    That ant would pick that Oreo cookie and try to eat it.  That or carry to it mound.  As soon as it picks it up I reach in and knock the cookie  out of its mouth.  The ant pauses, looks for the cookie and picks it up again.  I reach it again and knock it out of its mouth .  Does the ant know thats me doing this?  Of course not.   That ant will keep picking up that cookie till the end of time as long as I keep knocking out of his mouth - never the wise that's it a human being thats doing it.

The ant has no comprehension of what a human being is let alone why I keep knocking out of his hand.

 

IMO there are being like that that interact with us (various ways) that interaction (to us) is paranormal.    We can't see the other side ! The other dimension.

Humans are a minuscule species in this Universe.   In this galaxy and on this planet.      There are things beyond our grasps that we've yet been able to explain in steps the paranormal. 

 

[stereologist]

There are events that are not covered by the laws of physics. Those event are seen in experiments such as those run by the LHC. The goal of these experiments is to test a hypothesis.

There are all sorts of hoaxes that people post. Laughable tales of levitating objects and all of the other nonsense you posted. The funny thing is that there is never any evidence that any of those stories ever happened.

It's all about boring stories such as these that are never corroborated with real evidence.

Keep the stories coming. It makes you more of a laughingstock with each post.

Where is the evidence? Please post evidence. Your stories are as trite as they could  be.

[stereologist]

When people resort to such boring stories they really illustrate how lame their stories are.

 

I really can't imagine how boring their lives must be when they can't come up with anything original.

 

Then again maybe fleecing the wallets of the gullible is as simple as repeating the nonsense every other hoaxer has posted.

[macqdor]

I can assure u a lot of what the Poltergeist does in homes rivals anything at the LHC. They handle the small stuff. Poltergeist handles the big stuff.  Or both.

Seeing is believing. I envy those who haven't seen the feats these spirits can do.

[stereologist]

You can tell all f the stories you want and it is all boring claptrap.

Nothing in your hoax rivals anything being done by real scientists and includes what happens at the LHC.

Still no evidence. The LHC produces more evidence in a picosecond than all of the evidence from all paranormal faux-studies ever has.

Post the evidence or continue to be a failure.