pallidin Posted March 29, 2019 #251 Share Posted March 29, 2019 3 hours ago, Rlyeh said: It's called imagination. Deal with it. To each their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted March 29, 2019 #252 Share Posted March 29, 2019 9 hours ago, onlookerofmayhem said: On that note, I'm done with you. Ta-ta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted March 29, 2019 #253 Share Posted March 29, 2019 2 hours ago, onlookerofmayhem said: That entails presuming God exists in the first place. You believe God exists and it's possible for him to be involved in belief some way. You are simply asserting that God is involved in beliefs because you think as such. I can simply assert God is never involved because I don't believe it exists. Neither of us have any way to support those assertions. What I'm saying is that believing that God doesn't exist, has no bearing on him being involved with you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horta Posted March 29, 2019 #254 Share Posted March 29, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Rlyeh said: It's called imagination. Deal with it. That's an existence of sorts I suppose lol. The idea that god (and religion) is a form of memetic virus seems to have some merit. The standard god of popular religious myth could be likened to something of a memetic virus or bacterium, a folkloric contagion that is passed on culturally (cultural measles?) and then fortifies itself via the imagination of the host. It propagates culturally rather than physically and in various ways ie. religious indoctrination, tall stories, ritual, superstition and quite often charlatanry. It even avoids the cost of being sold with a free set of steak knives, by offering the sweetener that when our span is over we go on to a far better existence, if only we believe. Quite brilliant really, as a marketing strategy. Something might exist, but it isn't the god the west has been saddled with, and all gods aren't the same. The anthropomorphic god of popular religious myth is no more than that, a myth. For something that owes its existence entirely to the human imagination, it is also decidedly unimaginative. It's a fairy story for adults that stops people from being curious about whether something really does exist that could be called god (for want of better description). Edited March 30, 2019 by Horta 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted March 30, 2019 #255 Share Posted March 30, 2019 3 hours ago, onlookerofmayhem said: That entails presuming God exists in the first place. You believe God exists and it's possible for him to be involved in belief some way. You are simply asserting that God is involved in beliefs because you think as such. I can simply assert God is never involved because I don't believe it exists. Neither of us have any way to support those assertions. Interesting, so, you present as an agnostic. I respect your position even though I do not agree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted March 30, 2019 #256 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Similar to the issue of ET-UFO's, an agnostic refuses to accept what does not have direct evidentiary substance. This value makes that person patently ineffective in invesitigorial matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted March 30, 2019 #257 Share Posted March 30, 2019 A good invetigator embraces the "what if" An agnostic has considerable difficulty with "what if's" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted March 30, 2019 #258 Share Posted March 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, pallidin said: Similar to the issue of ET-UFO's, an agnostic refuses to accept what does not have direct evidentiary substance. This value makes that person patently ineffective in invesitigorial matters. You mean "refuse to accept" that such a thing could be real ? That is more an atheist, I'd say. The agnostic perhaps refuses to accept that it is real. The latter is the more reasonable, and moreso the bigger the mystery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted March 30, 2019 #259 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Habitat said: You mean "refuse to accept" that such a thing could be real ? That is more an atheist, I'd say. The agnostic perhaps refuses to accept that it is real. The latter is the more reasonable, and moreso the bigger the mystery. Yep, an agnostic is deprived of common sense, and, through mental constriction, actually deepens their own delusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted March 30, 2019 #260 Share Posted March 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, pallidin said: Yep, an agnostic is deprived of common sense, and, through mental constriction, actually deepens their own delusion. And what common sense are you displaying here, apparently none? jmccr8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted March 30, 2019 #261 Share Posted March 30, 2019 It is important to recognize the paranormal. It exists in reality due to qauntum fluctuations, and must be approached with maturity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted March 30, 2019 #262 Share Posted March 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, pallidin said: Yep, an agnostic is deprived of common sense, and, through mental constriction, actually deepens their own delusion. I think that would be more the atheist, the delusion implicit in it is that we have the mental wherewithal to make valid judgements about the most puzzling matters. No small amount of ego and arrogance is required to be satisfied that the mind-boggling can be deemed void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted March 30, 2019 #263 Share Posted March 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Habitat said: I think that would be more the atheist, the delusion implicit in it is that we have the mental wherewithal to make valid judgements about the most puzzling matters. No small amount of ego and arrogance is required to be satisfied that the mind-boggling can be deemed void. Indeed, this is a most difficult subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted March 30, 2019 #264 Share Posted March 30, 2019 I've often wondered if I could "force" a paranormal event. Still considering both how to do that and the potential dangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 30, 2019 #265 Share Posted March 30, 2019 13 hours ago, danydandan said: Wow, are you prepared for the backlash from @Will Due and @Mr Walker? As far as I can tell tell one is hell bent on conversation, and one is so utterly self obsessed that they require, nah need, everyone to believe them. Are you sure these prominent theistic users have doubt in what they are preaching? Anyways I kind of agree with you to a point. Are you suggesting I am a mad fundamentalist That's not even half right Im hell bent on conversation but not interested in converting others (if thats wht you meant to say) Conversion to anything is an inner process which can only be done withe consent and participation of a person's will. I don't preach. IMO i present both a pov and known statistics and facts which support that pov. For me the goal is important ( a happy, well, productive and constructive life, lived long and well) and i recognise a billion different ways to attain that goal(and a lot of ways to stuff it up.) I don't have any personal doubt, but i appreciate that every human is different, and that what works for me might be difficult for others; BUT i can only suggest that which I KNOW from experience, works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted March 30, 2019 #266 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horta Posted March 30, 2019 #267 Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) Every atheist is an agnostic by definition. It's pretty obvious why "nothing can be known of the existence or nature of god", for the same reason that "nothing can be known of the existence or nature of fairies". You would have to accept the proposition these things exist to begin with, to claim knowledge of such being or its existence. There are also firm believers who are agnostic. Was common in the ancient world. Those who believe in gods existence, but also believing that god is ultimately unknowable for humans. Quote agnostic /aɡˈnɒstɪk/ noun 1. a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God. It's fashionable for people who are undecided whether to believe, to wrongly claim this is the definition of agnostic. Edited March 30, 2019 by Horta 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted March 30, 2019 #268 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Love, the most important and potent value that a human can express. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 30, 2019 #269 Share Posted March 30, 2019 13 hours ago, Habitat said: Mr Walker doesn't even believe in a God, so far as I'm aware. Just some alien that visits him. Technically, I KNOW this entity You are correct tha t it is not a god as in an imaginary god constructed as omnipotent omniscient etc by human imagination. YET it appears to be the model for many main stream gods over time including those of the book When encountered it has almost always been perceived as a god, in line with Clarke's third law. British science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke formulated three adages that are known as Clarke's three laws, of which the third law is the best known and most widely cited. They were part of his ideas in his extensive writings about the future.[1] These so-called laws include: 1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong. 2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible. 3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke's_three_laws Along with Asimov's laws of robotics as applied to human morality , these go a long way to forming the core of my ethical values and beliefs. 1. A robot (human) may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. 2. A robot (human) must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law. (substitute legitimate democratic authority for human beings, when applying to humans ) 3. A robot (human) must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law. https://www.auburn.edu/~vestmon/robotics.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted March 30, 2019 #270 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Do not dismiss what you do not understand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted March 30, 2019 #271 Share Posted March 30, 2019 The atheist is like this: It's all about me, and I will kill you if you get in my way. Extreme narcissism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted March 30, 2019 #272 Share Posted March 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, pallidin said: Love, the most important and potent value that a human can express. Just now, pallidin said: The atheist is like this: It's all about me, and I will kill you if you get in my way. Extreme narcissism. It is a subject that is more about psychology than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted March 30, 2019 #273 Share Posted March 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Habitat said: It is a subject that is more about psychology than anything. Yeah... this is a b****, so-to-speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 30, 2019 #274 Share Posted March 30, 2019 13 hours ago, danydandan said: He does, the alien is God. Or some crap. So do you think these two users have doubt in what they are preaching? The alien is not "god" but it is the only real ( ie physical) god, that humans know. IMO We have historically perceived it as a god, due to its superior knowledge and technology, and thus power, and its ongoing interaction with humans over millennia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 30, 2019 #275 Share Posted March 30, 2019 13 hours ago, danydandan said: I can guarantee that Walker will say he has zero doubt about anything! Everyone has doubt, if they don't they are a fool in my opinion. All speculation is good, it opens doors and avenues of thought that otherwise would not have been brought to the fore. I have to admit that anyone proclaiming that God's doesn't exist on the back of 'science' or 'evidence' knows nothing about either and the exact same should be said for those who proclaim that God's exist. true No; some people either know or don't know, and where they dont know don't entertain concern or worry or doubt, just admit they don't know, and will wait for evidences A person can know, from personal experience, that an entity humans call god exists. It is much more difficult to know, from personal experience, that such a being does NOT exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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