XenoFish Posted May 23, 2019 #2826 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Whatever happened to believing in something without having the overwhelming urge to validate or quantify it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted May 23, 2019 #2827 Share Posted May 23, 2019 naturally, people who believe they are privy to a great secret. are apt to want to talk about it, what is perhaps less obvious is why others who clearly are not apprised of such knowledge, are at pains to dismiss it. and discredit it. That is the real question that haunts these discussions. The investment in that, is rather less explicable than the investment of those who are convinced they have witnessed a great mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted May 23, 2019 #2828 Share Posted May 23, 2019 21 minutes ago, Habitat said: You aren't expected to trust anecdotes, So what was the point of your saying that anecdotes are true to the witness? 24 minutes ago, Habitat said: I have a duty to point out the fact that the pressing need to quash "woo" comes from the fear that it might not actually be all BS, That's not a fact, that's a fact 'to you', which you have yet to show has anything to do with reality. You have a 'duty' to point out things you can't even argue well for, but you hate/fear when someone like psyche, who perhaps also feels he has a duty, points out the lack of support for your propositions and the science that is against these ideas? Fine, you don't want to debate here, on a skepticism forum, agreed that is not a requirement. Can you at least apply the same rules you apply to yourself to others? If you have a duty to point out non-factual conclusions from your 'hard-nosed observations' here, you shouldn't complain if someone else thinks they have a duty to point out that so far there is no evidence or reason to think it might not all be BS. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted May 23, 2019 #2829 Share Posted May 23, 2019 15 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Whatever happened to believing in something without having the overwhelming urge to validate or quantify it? Now there you go again--making perfect sense. You know how that irritates some people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted May 23, 2019 #2830 Share Posted May 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said: So what was the point of your saying that anecdotes are true to the witness? That's not a fact, that's a fact 'to you', which you have yet to show has anything to do with reality. You have a 'duty' to point out things you can't even argue well for, but you hate/fear when someone like psyche, who perhaps also feels he has a duty, points out the lack of support for your propositions and the science that is against these ideas? Fine, you don't want to debate here, on a skepticism forum, agreed that is not a requirement. Can you at least apply the same rules you apply to yourself to others? If you have a duty to point out non-factual conclusions from your 'hard-nosed observations' here, you shouldn't complain if someone else thinks they have a duty to point out that so far there is no evidence or reason to think it might not all be BS. Simple reality, no science exists that can answer the question of whether there may be an afterlife. Anyone who says otherwise, is either a fool or a knave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted May 23, 2019 #2831 Share Posted May 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: Now there you go again--making perfect sense. You know how that irritates some people. It really is a bad habit of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted May 23, 2019 #2832 Share Posted May 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, Habitat said: Simple reality, no science exists that can answer the question of whether there may be an afterlife. Anyone who says otherwise, is either a fool or a knave. There is an afterlife, life goes on after you've left this life. What happens to you? Well your corpse feeds that life. There you go, an afterlife. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted May 23, 2019 #2833 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Habitat, you are in a section of the forums where people are not inclined to roll their eyes up in their skulls and drool over weirdness. To be open-minded does not require one to be empty-headed. You're not going to make any headway arguing that people are arrogant and stupid for not being gullible. Their opinions are based on available information from which they extrapolate their cognitive determinations. It's not their fault you lack a coherent argument to support your beloved positions. You provide no information and are woefully lacking in the art of persuasion. You're reduced to sniping from the bushes at the people on the playing field because you get trounced every time you step out on it. You should reacess your attitude and convictions. . . 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted May 23, 2019 #2834 Share Posted May 23, 2019 16 minutes ago, XenoFish said: It really is a bad habit of mine. Well, as long as it doesn't become habitual. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted May 23, 2019 #2835 Share Posted May 23, 2019 28 minutes ago, Habitat said: Simple reality, no science exists that can answer the question of whether there may be an afterlife. Anyone who says otherwise, is either a fool or a knave. You've got your initial claim and you've got your concluding tangential impressions. All that's missing is the important stuff in between that backs up your claim. No science exists that can 'answer' the question of whether astrology works, and lots of other things people believe in, but it's not foolish though to say that astrology is bunk, it's a conclusion based on the evidence and lack thereof. Some people apply that same reasoning to the afterlife, and there's nothing foolish about that either, since there's nothing to distinguish the claims of astrology and the afterlife, since there's no evidence to support either and counter-arguments exist against both. The reasons to believe our consciousness lives on in some manner rely on anecdotes, which you seem to agree no one should assume are just true when they are from other people. Since we shouldn't just blanket accept another person's anecdotes (no matter the ad hominems that accompany them) some people think this logically says something about the entire category 'anecdote', namely that this category on its own is not that reliable. For those who aren't convinced they already have 'the truth', that can and if we're being consistent should include doubting one's own anecdotes. On the other hand, the reasons not to believe our consciousness lives on are indeed based on science; not anecdotes, not truths 'to me', not any other wishy-washy evidence that can't be provided. Science can't rule out things that are not even defined; if you'd like to provide some additional detail on how the afterlife works, what qualities it has, something, then we can compare that to what science might say about it. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted May 23, 2019 #2836 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, XenoFish said: Whatever happened to believing in something without having the overwhelming urge to validate or quantify it? Nothing, I think that's still alive and well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted May 23, 2019 #2837 Share Posted May 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said: Nothing, I think that's still alive and well. I don't really see it around here though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted May 23, 2019 #2838 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) I can fully understand a belief in the afterlife as a means of calming the anxiety of death. I get that. Same for finding meaning and purpose through a religious belief/s or spiritual belief/s, I understand. What I don't get is trying to use science to validate/affirm said beliefs. It really comes down to a "battle" between science and psychology. Edited May 23, 2019 by XenoFish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted May 23, 2019 #2839 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, XenoFish said: I don't really see it around here though. Try the ICU; it's on life support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted May 23, 2019 #2840 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Just now, Hammerclaw said: Try the ICU; it's on life support. Same thing happened to common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted May 23, 2019 #2841 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Just now, XenoFish said: Same thing happened to common sense. It's quite uncommon..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pettytalk Posted May 23, 2019 #2842 Share Posted May 23, 2019 3 hours ago, XenoFish said: It really is a bad habit of mine. Trolling habit? Is not a definition of trolling around here one of extruding resentment and irritation from others, by stating things one does not really believe? In other words, being facicious on the basis of soliciting arousal of others' personal sentiments and belifs. However, trolling could simply be a benign devil's advocate stance for the sake of argument and a hope to a better understanding. That's what a good argument should aim at, understaning the other's position so as to give reason the better of it, and not give it to personal criticism, and demeaning. As far as evidence for an afterlife, where we will recall personal identity and this life's experiences, there will never be the quality and quantity of proof expected by those requiring scientific rigor to be aplied in this current life cycle. The game rules does not allow it. What is allowed is for us to reason on it, which is based on individual recollection of previous multiple afterlives we all have from what could be a countless number of lives we have had before. Why! science itself is part of the game, as it was created to deceive those that strictly rely on it without any doubts. Science is really a snare to those who fall for it. And those who fall are those who "cave" into the idea that our five physical senses are, strictly, the instruments with which to measure and define reality. Those that fall for the 5 senses are the still prisoners in Plato's "cave," to make a pun of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pettytalk Posted May 23, 2019 #2843 Share Posted May 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Hammerclaw said: Habitat, you are in a section of the forums where people are not inclined to roll their eyes up in their skulls and drool over weirdness. To be open-minded does not require one to be empty-headed. You're not going to make any headway arguing that people are arrogant and stupid for not being gullible. Their opinions are based on available information from which they extrapolate their cognitive determinations. It's not their fault you lack a coherent argument to support your beloved positions. You provide no information and are woefully lacking in the art of persuasion. You're reduced to sniping from the bushes at the people on the playing field because you get trounced every time you step out on it. You should reacess your attitude and convictions. . . Still, what one lacks in art can be made up with a stick, since we are beating around a bush again, and another field gsme. And the art of persuation works best with the use of rhetoric, which is definetly a soft and mellow stick. Persuation? Look over yonder, what do you see?....I see a new day is coming....Crystal blue persuation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted May 23, 2019 #2844 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Pettytalk said: Still, what one lacks in art can be made up with a stick, since we are beating around a bush again, and another field gsme. And the art of persuation works best with the use of rhetoric, which is definetly a soft and mellow stick. Persuation? Look over yonder, what do you see?....I see a new day is coming....Crystal blue persuation? You ain't from Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pettytalk Posted May 23, 2019 #2845 Share Posted May 23, 2019 3 hours ago, XenoFish said: I can fully understand a belief in the afterlife as a means of calming the anxiety of death. I get that. Same for finding meaning and purpose through a religious belief/s or spiritual belief/s, I understand. What I don't get is trying to use science to validate/affirm said beliefs. It really comes down to a "battle" between science and psychology. Is not psychology a science? A house divided falls! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pettytalk Posted May 23, 2019 #2846 Share Posted May 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: You ain't from Chicago. That's not scietific determination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted May 23, 2019 #2847 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Just now, Pettytalk said: That's not scietific determination. Is that you or your alter ego talking, Al? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pettytalk Posted May 23, 2019 #2848 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said: Is that you or your alter ego talking, Al? Me and my shadow, as I have only a plain ego, and no alter ego to speak through, as you and some others seem to have, showing it off by what appears to some as eloquance of expression, although lacking in persuation, as well. Are you going to ask for proof, as you did once with a veteran here? Shall I post my personal information for all to see that Chicago was my permanent home, and still is what I consider myself as, a Chicagoan? Why I still own 4 plots at St. edALbert, just in case there is no afterlife for my corpse, as I want to spend eternity in Chicago, and its suburbs; sweet home, Chicago. If you meet me in Chicago I'll show you the town and all my old haunts, all 2001 of them. OK uncle Albert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted May 23, 2019 #2849 Share Posted May 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, Pettytalk said: Me and my shadow, as I have only a plain ego, and no alter ego to speak through, as you and some others seem to have, showing it off by what appears to some as eloquance of expression, although lacking in persuation, as well. Are you going to ask for proof, as you did once with a veteran here? Shall I post my personal information for all to see that Chicago was my permanent home, and still is what I consider myself as, a Chicagoan? Why I still own 4 plots at St. edALbert, just in case there is no afterlife for my corpse, as I want to spend eternity in Chicago, and its suburbs; sweet home, Chicago. If you meet me in Chicago I'll show you the town and all my old haunts, all 2001 of them. OK uncle Albert? I didn't know Bloomington was part of Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted May 23, 2019 #2850 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Hammerclaw said: It's quite uncommon..... I heard that it has become a superpower now. Due to so few having it. Edited May 23, 2019 by XenoFish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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