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crookedspiral

Atheism is incompatible with science

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psyche101
Just now, Habitat said:

The only thing that suits me is facts.

You have proven time and again that such is not the case. It doesn't matter if its a forum poster or a world leading scientist, you disparage and insult one and all whilst uttering gibberish should any evidence be presented that dissolves validity of your claims. You're not fooling anyone Hab. Your arguments are clearly personal and as well supported as a flat earth. And I think that you just might realise that yourself, hence the aggressive defensive retorts. 

Just now, Habitat said:

I know the facts,

If such is the case, you're doing a great job of hiding that. 

Just now, Habitat said:

you are guessing, the complete reverse of

No, I don't see how following the groundbreaking discoveries that explain a natural universe is guessing. That doesn't fit the meaning of the word. Again, you're talking nonsense because you know very well that you have nothing. Would you like to share your understanding of the word 'guessing' with us all? 

Just now, Habitat said:

what you imagine yourself to be in possession of.

In possession of? 

That seems a very odd choice of words. Would you care to extrapolate? 

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Sherapy
32 minutes ago, Habitat said:

There is no science that can refute the possibility of the afterlife, you must know that, surely.

Hab., you can believe via faith what ever you want if it helps you, why does it matter to you that Psyche validates you? 

Anyway, How do you support that’ consciousness doesn’t end with death?

 

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Habitat
15 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

To be fair, that depends on the quality of the claim and its supporting evidence.  Outrageous claims require equally outrageous evidence.  Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

To be fair, what is not known to be true, can't then be assumed false. Which is what old P101 does ad nauseum.

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Habitat
4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Hab., you can believe via faith what ever you want if it helps you, why does it matter to you that Psyche validates you? 

Anyway, How do you support that’ consciousness doesn’t end with death?

 

Nothing to do with faith, everything to do with simple observation. This isn't a debating society, I am not here to "win" a technical argument. I am simply reporting what must have been known to millions since antiquity. 

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DieChecker
6 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Exactly the point though. Evidence does explain properly those things many believe. 

That's also a strange conundrum. How does one continue to draw comfort of we know the belief is just a remnant of old ideas? 

By doing the same as when you watch an Avengers movie. Suspention of disbelief. Humans can believe in anything. Doubtless there are real actual followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster out there. 

The story of the Prodigal Son is an example. Humans will always turn to what they know comforts rather then seek out new comforts.

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Self validation. Again I think many know an afterlife is not a viable idea these days so many seek validation of beliefs, and get angry when some bring reality to the table. 

Depends on what you mean by many. 

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That seems self evident. People fear death. It's the ultimate injury one can't heal from. Nobody likes the idea of leaving loved ones behind and missing out in what is to come. The afterlife idea soothes that fear like a balm on a burn. 

There you go! Figure out some secular way how to keep people from fearing death, and religion will disappear.

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I really question that. As we learn more, and schools bring vast amounts of information to individuals, surely more will start to ask 'why do people believe in a God?' We are barely out of the fire and brimstone age which was quite effective at maintaining those validations to seek comfort in. Those days are rapidly fading away which has to affect the next generations who have better answers to questions of existance than old stories. 

Even now with the information available I honestly wonder how people can see the god idea as a valid arguable position. Nothing supports the idea, and science continues to chip away at old myths. 

Society supports the idea. Social constructs... Herd mentality... Fear of death... Hope for reunion...

You are thinking logically. And as Spock noted... Humans are illogical.

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Sherapy
1 minute ago, Habitat said:

Nothing to do with faith, everything to do with simple observation. This isn't a debating society, I am not here to "win" a technical argument. I am simply reporting what must have been known to millions since antiquity. 

Hmmm, Simple observation has led you to conclude that consciousness lives on after death? 

It is not about winning or losing it is about what have you actually observed and how can I see this too.

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Habitat said:

To be fair, what is not known to be true, can't then be assumed false. Which is what old P101 does ad nauseum.

You do know that if there isn’t evidence for some thing it is okay to say it probably doesn’t exist in actuality and it wouldn’t be considered a sin, as long as if evidence shows up to prove that it does actually exist that you change your mind to align with the evidence.

 

Edited by Sherapy
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psyche101
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Habitat said:

It may have been demonstrated to your fevered imagination, but in reality, the wider world, not at all.

Nah, Sean Carroll exists, this forum exists, and the recorded presentation exists on YouTube. 

Guess what doesn't exist Hab? 

Anything at all convincing to support your superstitious talk. That only exists in your imagination. 

See the difference? 

Physics : Real. 

Morse code from the dead : Not real. 

Edited by psyche101
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Habitat

 

3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

You do know that if there isn’t evidence for some thing it is okay to say it probably doesn’t exist in actuality and it wouldn’t be considered a sin.

 

Why would you need to make that call ? Why not say, " I don't know" ? It is the pressing need to dismiss, that speaks volumes.

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Habitat
1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

Nah, Sean Carroll exists, this forum exists, and the recorded presentation exists on YouTube. 

Guess what doesn't exist Hab? 

Anything at all convincing to support your superstitious talk. That only exists in your imagination. 

See the difference? 

Physics : Real. 

Morse code from the deaf:Not real. 

What is real is your urgent need to believe this. Too bad you can't be humble, and just admit you really don't know !

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Habitat said:

 

Why would you need to make that call ? Why not say, " I don't know" ? It is the pressing need to dismiss, that speaks volumes.

I can say with a high degree of confidence that there is a 99% percent chance that there is no life after death.

Consciousness ends at death.  

Science offers no other theories at this time. Perhaps it will and if so I will gladly change my mind.

So at this time there is a 1 percent chance I could be wrong. It is reasonable  to say the claim is false based on the competing evidence of nada.

The death process ends consciousness as we understand it. 

Take god we can’t prove or disprove god because we have no way to do so in this case, it is an “I don't know,” fair and square because I have no evidence to weigh at all. 

There is no cure for Parkinson’s the last groundbreaking movement towards finding one was the discovery of levodopa ( dopamine replacement ), now this doesn’t negate there is hope for a cure and research looking into it, but since the 60s, nada.

So we say there is no cure for Parkinson’s, we don’t say I don’t know if there is no cure, because we know there isn’t one.

Edited by Sherapy
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Habitat
3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I can say with a high degree of confidence that there is a 99% percent chance that there’s is no life after death.

Good that you left the 1%, that is where the truth lies. I am 100% certain of that.

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Sherapy
18 minutes ago, Habitat said:

What is real is your urgent need to believe this. Too bad you can't be humble, and just admit you really don't know !

You over generalize I don’t know, in some cases it isn’t applicable. 

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Habitat
2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

You over generalize I don’t know, in some cases it isn’t applicable. 

I can tell you, that I certainly was never a believer or an unbeliever, I just did not know, and how would you ? You don't. Till you see something decisive. Or a hundred.

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Sherapy
5 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Good that you left the 1%, that is where the truth lies. I am 100% certain of that.

That doesn’t make sense logically.

You could say that at this time there is no evidence for life after death but you have faith or hope (that one percent) that one day that will change.

Why not say that?

IMHO,You are projecting onto Psyche your desires, needs, and wants. 

I think you miss your mom it is as simple as that.

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Sherapy
2 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I can tell you, that I certainly was never a believer or an unbeliever, I just did not know, and how would you ? You don't. Till you see something decisive. Or a hundred.

I do know the power of grief and how much we miss loved ones and how much we want to believe there is more,.I even think it can help ones healing.

I just can't make the leap to life after death with no evidence to support it. 

And you can, so we will agree to disagree. 

Sound fair?

 

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Sherapy
33 minutes ago, Habitat said:

What is real is your urgent need to believe this. Too bad you can't be humble, and just admit you really don't know !

How about you?

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Habitat
4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

That doesn’t make sense logically.

You could say that at this time there is no evidence for life after death but you have faith or hope (that one percent) that one day that will change.

Why not say that?

IMHO,You are projecting onto Psyche your desires, needs, and wants. 

I think you miss your mom it is as simple as that.

There is no science that answers the question, that is 100% fact, despite the BS peddled by P101. There is no doubt in my mind there is an afterlife, but that is based not on wishful thinking, but hard-nosed observation. Of course I miss her, but I realise our time is finite, and if no-one ever died, the place would be  getting rather crowded ! I am a realist who goes with the facts.

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Habitat
5 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I do know the power of grief and how much we miss loved ones and how much we want to believe there is more,.I even think it can help ones healing.

I just can't make the leap to life after death with no evidence to support it. 

And you can, so we will agree to disagree. 

Sound fair?

 

I respect the fact you can't make that leap, and guess what, you are right not to. But wrong to come up with that 99%. Leave it at somewhere between 0.0%, and 100%, and you cannot be wrong !

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Liquid Gardens
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Habitat said:

There is no science that can refute the possibility of the afterlife, you must know that, surely.

Nothing can refute the 'possibility' of anything.  This doesn't stop anyone, including you, from using definite and certain words anyway, because they are useful.  Just as evolution 'refutes' the 'possibility' of Young Earth creationism, then science does refute the possibility of some proposed afterlife conceptions.

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Nothing wrong with questioning, but outright repudiation of something you really can't know is true or untrue, is another thing.

No, it's not 'another thing', there's nothing wrong with repudiation of something you really can't 'know' is true or not.  There is especially nothing wrong with it when you can't provide any reasons or evidence that your conception of any of this is correct; there is literally no reason to believe you, because you don't provide any evidence or reason to, which you've justified to yourself because you don't view this as a 'debating society'.

Edited by Liquid Gardens
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Sherapy
9 minutes ago, Habitat said:

There is no science that answers the question, that is 100% fact, despite the BS peddled by P101. There is no doubt in my mind there is an afterlife, but that is based not on wishful thinking, but hard-nosed observation. Of course I miss her, but I realise our time is finite, and if no-one ever died, the place would be  getting rather crowded ! I am a realist who goes with the facts.

Be careful with the facts thing, anecdotal tales are not facts. 

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Habitat
Just now, Sherapy said:

Be careful with the facts thing, anecdotal tales are not facts. 

They are to the witness.

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Liquid Gardens
Just now, Habitat said:

They are to the witness.

Do you trust everything everyone says they witnessed?  If not, duly noted, some things are indeed true to people; what does that have to do with reality?

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Habitat
13 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

How about you?

I have a duty to point out the fact that the pressing need to quash "woo" comes from the fear that it might not actually be all BS, though we know some certainly is. What's to be frightened of ? That is the real question.

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Habitat
2 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Do you trust everything everyone says they witnessed?  If not, duly noted, some things are indeed true to people; what does that have to do with reality?

You aren't expected to trust anecdotes, I don't respect claims that anecdotes are useless to all, including the teller. That really is a toxic lie.

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