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crookedspiral

Atheism is incompatible with science

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Habitat
1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

Habit it is you who needs to man up and admit that you don’t know at all that you simply wish on faith that your take is the “one.”

 

Weren't you going to retire from this conversation ? Regardless of anything I claim, the truth remains, you and P101 simply do not know, and should be happy to leave it as an open question, as I would under the same circumstances,, it is crystal clear you have a greater priority at work, "smash woo ! At the cost of the truth. That is madness. The truth must be paramount.

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Sherapy
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

This best friend was left behind when he enlisted. Must have been a dependency of sorts. Maybe you son was his only friend or something? Is he having guilt issues over it? Not his fault. He didn't know it would happen. Now there I go again, off on lark. Sorry, I just remember how hard it was when my best friend went to a different college.

He went with this boy through boot camp, school, and they went to Germany together and got stationed in Turkey together.

This boy hung himself a few weeks ago in common area on a Turkey AF base, my son found him hanging. 

He said he was the funnest happiest guy that gave no indication of suicide, all he knew was that the boy was sending home 90% percent of his checks.

The mother wants to speak with my son and I encourage him to speak with her for closure. 

He told me they had a memorial on base and got to carry his body to the plane to go home to his mother, he said he was blinded by his own tears, making this trek and held hands with his mates as they prayed over his casket.

My son said “he wished he would see how much he was loved.” 

Just typing this brings tears.

I am not sure if he has guilt, but he most likely has questioned himself asking how could he not know, etc. it is normal in these situations. 

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Hammerclaw
Just now, Habitat said:

Weren't you going to retire from this conversation ? Regardless of anything I claim, the truth remains, you and P101 simply do not know, and should be happy to leave it as an open question, as I would under the same circumstances,, it is crystal clear you have a greater priority at work, "smash woo ! At the cost of the truth. That is madness. The truth must be paramount.

You should be happy for the opportunity to prove them wrong. You should, also, resign yourself to the fact that everyone is as enamored of make believe and wishful thinking, as are you. They, simply, can not be harangued into it. You say something might possibly be true and the response is "Show me." You ought to embrace the concept of an impasse, as well.

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Hammerclaw
3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

He went with this boy through boot camp, school, and they went to Germany together and got stationed in Turkey together.

This boy hung himself a few weeks ago in common area on a Turkey AF base, my son found him hanging. 

He said he was the funnest happiest guy that gave no indication of suicide, all he knew was that the boy was sending home 90% percent of his checks.

The mother wants to speak with my son and I encourage him to speak with her for closure. 

He told me they had a memorial on base and got to carry his body to the plane to go home to his mother, he said he was blinded by his own tears, making this trek and held hands with his mates as they prayed over his casket.

My son said “he wished he would see how much he was loved.” 

Just typing this brings tears.

I am not sure if he has guilt, but he most likely has questioned himself asking how could he not know, etc. it is normal in these situations. 

So much for my flight of fancy. Kind of reminds me of An Officer And A Gentlemen. Yeah, he has a fabulous support group. Is he at Incirlik? 

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Piney
7 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

He said he was the funnest happiest guy that gave no indication of suicide

That's always how it happens. :(

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Habitat
6 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

resign yourself to the fact that everyone is as enamored of make believe and wishful thinking, as are you

No wishful thinking involved for me, I really am just going with facts as they present. If the facts don't present, don't draw any conclusions, that is the problem here, people drawing conclusions based on an absence of evidence available to them. The idea that  something can't exist because they have been around for x years now, and they've seen no sign of it, is just egocentric madness. Stick with the scientific approach, can't go wrong.

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Sherapy
4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

So much for my flight of fancy. Kind of reminds me of An Officer And A Gentlemen. Yeah, he has a fabulous support group. Is he at Incirlik? 

Yes. The AF has been very supportive to the boys, including grief therapy and great friendships. 

Yes, very similar to Officer and a Gentleman and other movies of this sort. 

 

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Liquid Gardens
1 hour ago, Habitat said:

were they comfortable to just leave it as an anecdote about which no judgement could accurately be made,

But it's not true that no judgment can be made. I really don't think it's going out on a limb to say that it is not logical to just believe something because someone typed an anecdote on the internet.  As far as rational support for anything, 'typed on internet' is about the lowest category for veracity (right above 'things my president tweets').  So this raises the question, if an internet anecdote is far from proving anything, what is it worth if anything?  If it is worth anything, I haven't seen you attempt to argue for it, I'd agree it would be tough.  Your anecdote because of its nature is especially sketchy, you're not claiming you own a dog or took the bus, you're claiming something about something we have no other evidence for.

You believe that it is utterly nuts and illogical for someone to 'outright' disbelieve in the afterlife/beyond, I can't emphasize enough how crystal clear you have made your position on this, somewhere between 99% and 100% certainty that the afterlife does not exist lies your current threshold of acceptability I believe.  If an anecdote isn't worth anything, and if anecdotes is all there is to offer, then that's the same as offering nothing.  You sprinkle the word 'logical' and especially 'illogical' into your statements and criticism on this point, so what is illogical about disbelieving something that there is, logically, no reason to believe?  

I'm mainly just trying to see if it is possible to bring some closure to your argument about how other people's disbelief concerning things you believe in is somehow foolish and wrong, and hopefully put a deserved end to the notion that their disbelief provides you some special window into their motivations, biases, fears, etc, yawn.  I'm ready for a new Habitat point to rule them all.

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Habitat
1 minute ago, Liquid Gardens said:

But it's not true that no judgment can be made. I really don't think it's going out on a limb to say that it is not logical to just believe something because someone typed an anecdote on the internet. 

Get it right, will you, you aren't expected to believe anything, except perhaps the obvious, that there are such things as "open questions", and in the absence of a compelling reason to not leave such a question as unresolved, one really ought to be asking, why the rush to jump to a conclusion on the matter. Do you have that compelling reason ?

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Habitat said:

No wishful thinking involved for me, I really am just going with facts as they present. If the facts don't present, don't draw any conclusions, that is the problem here, people drawing conclusions based on an absence of evidence available to them. The idea that  something can't exist because they have been around for x years now, and they've seen no sign of it, is just egocentric madness. Stick with the scientific approach, can't go wrong.

No, it's absence of evidence, the reproducible, falsifiable kind. The scientific method requires it to verify phenomena. The people of Iceland are sure there are little people, living in rocks, there. To, date, no split rock has produced a single one. Shall we go knapping for Leprechauns, next? Unless you can produce something more substantial than the above--or the tooth fairy, or Saint Nick, your quaint and fanciful notions won't pass muster, here. Why you insist on being here instead congregating with like-minded folk is the real mystery.

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Weren't you going to retire from this conversation ? Regardless of anything I claim, the truth remains, you and P101 simply do not know, and should be happy to leave it as an open question, as I would under the same circumstances,, it is crystal clear you have a greater priority at work, "smash woo ! At the cost of the truth. That is madness. The truth must be paramount.

I think woo can be a wonderful thing in some situations, including my own loss and the loss of your mother.

I just can’t in intellectual honesty make empty claims of the things that helped me cope. 

But, you do in the skeptic section to boot, specifically, I think to have a reason to get angry and lash out. MW does the same thing and so did many of us at one time or another regardless of POV. 

What you have is unresolved anger issues and have found a place to unleash them, who knows perhaps your anger may become your greatest strength as so many of us before you.

All the best on your journey.

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

No, it's absence of evidence, the reproducible, falsifiable kind. The scientific method requires it to verify phenomena. The people of Iceland are sure there are little people, living in rocks, there. To, date, no split rock has produced a single one. Shall we go knapping for Leprechauns, next? Unless you can produce something more substantial than the above--or the tooth fairy, or Saint Nick, your quaint and fanciful notions won't pass muster, here. Why you insist on being here instead congregating with like-minded folk is the real mystery.

Exactly, and it is total bull sh it that we are woo smashers, many on here are respected posters who believe in god. 

He would find the validation and back slapping he wants in other sections. 

Interesting on the folks of Iceland, lol the common link is the human brain all subject to the same flights of fancy.

One just wants to be mindful of this, hence the reason for critical thinking, it doesn’t mean one can’t be religious, or think the head board banging the wall is your mom sending Morse code. Sheesh.

 It if you claim it you gotta back it up. 

Edited by Sherapy
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psyche101
42 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Lightweight, and needy. That sums you up.

Another empty claim Hab? 

The physics can't be lightweight as it makes you cower into a dark corner and throw as many barbs as you can. 

Needy would be you pretending that physics does not in fact exist when we can all easily see that it does. As is projecting your superstitious nature onto others and the laughable fact that you had no idea that the physics actually existed which refute your predetermined beliefs. 

Its quite obvious that you you are projecting again. 

Quote

Where the need to believe something over-rides adherence to the truth, there is nothing but endless error.

That's exactly what you are doing with claiming sciences that have been carefully placed under you nose do not exist. As a result you look like a fundamental zealot. Your credibility is non existent due to your own actions. 

Quote

Man up and admit you simply don't know the truth of these matters, which for a person with the right attitude, is no hardship,

But in some cases the truth is self evident. 

The science that refutes your childish rants dies in fact exist. That cannot be denied as it has been clearly presented. What is not presented is support fir your lies that it dies not exist  and you know better. 

You have illustrated that you fear science  and wish to pretend it does not exist. You need to man up Hab. You have not presented the same to support your superstitious beliefs. 

Quote

but for someone as pre-invested as you, can be a painful realisation.

And again you project your own insecurities onto others. It's is astonishing that you actually seem to think nobody notices your lack of support for your vitriolic attacks and obvious fears. The only one with predetermined conclusions here is very clearly yourself. Your blind denial of the science ptednted could not make that any clearer. You're clearly in the 37% Hab. And I think even you know that so you go on the attack to deflect the disbelief that you must know is coming your way when you talk to anyone who isn't as blindly invested in superstition. 

You deserve pity, but your so arrogant and rude that it's hard to waste on someone like you. 

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Hammerclaw
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Exactly, and it is total bull sh it that we are woo smashers, many on here are respected posters who believe in god. 

He would find the validation and back slapping he wants in other sections. 

 

I dare say practically everyone of us woo smashers would be absolutely delighted to be proven wrong about any of the exotic stuff posted here. That is the caveat i.e. proof.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I dare say practically everyone of us woo smashers would be absolutely delighted to be proven wrong about any of the exotic stuff posted here. That is the caveat i.e. proof.

Good point, who wouldn’t love the idea that our loved ones are healthy and happy and sending us messages, tweaking reality to make life easier for us.

But, for a woo claim to be considered the evidence is the key point. 

It is not rocket science. 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Habitat
8 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

your quaint and fanciful notions won't pass muster, here.

My "quaint and fanciful notion" is that scientific rigour demands that open questions not be prematurely deemed as "decided" by fact fudgers with an agenda based on their personal antipathies.

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psyche101
52 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

You guys must feel like you've met your Bizarro Universe counterpart.

More like I've met the demon offspring of Walker and Will........ :wacko:

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Habitat
7 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

But in some cases the truth is self evident. 

It certainly is, nothing like being "Johnny on the spot"

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

Good point, who wouldn’t love the idea that our loved ones are healthy and happy and sending us messages, tweaking reality to make life easier for us.

Lol 

 

Or space aliens or nessie or bigfoot, the lost continent of atlantis, astral project, supply side economics, Michael Avenatti.

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Hammerclaw
2 minutes ago, Habitat said:

My "quaint and fanciful notion" is that scientific rigour demands that open questions not be prematurely deemed as "decided" by fact fudgers with an agenda based on their personal antipathies.

All scientific conclusions are based on current information and are amendable with additional information. Got any?

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Or space aliens or nessie or bigfoot, the lost continent of atlantis, astral project, supply side economics, Michael Avenatti.

Iceland is taking the cake for me here, little people living in rocks. 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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psyche101
52 minutes ago, Habitat said:

You are just an all-round bad judge, but things can change for you if you release the death-grip you have on the idea that science, or anything else, has these matters in a box. Simply not the case, nor ever likely to be. 

Oh , you mean I can one day be just like you? 

All I need to do is practice self delusion and eschew the sciences? 

tenor.gif

Your good for a laugh at times.

Honestly, do you actually think anyone would wish to aspire to be you? Hate science, treat others rudely, and promote childish nonsense? What part of that do you see as a drawcard? 

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Habitat

 

1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

All scientific conclusions are based on current information and are amendable with additional information. Got any?

Conclusions based on scant evidence are not scientific, so don't try and enlist science to your anti-woo agenda, because science has bloody nothing at all to say on the subject !

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psyche101
1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

Oh yeah, this lady has residence in my memories, she was an amazing friend. 

Is this what inspired you to move from atheism? 

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Hammerclaw
2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Iceland is taking the cake for me here, little people living in rocks. 

 

Icelanders are a unique people with a rich history and mythology.

https://exemplore.com/magic/Hulduflk-Icelands-Elves-and-Hidden-People

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