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Atheism is incompatible with science


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3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

This is the claim of the age. A claim of desperation. A claim of punishment. A claim of reality denial.

Its a realisation in the face of greater knowledge Will. Your dramatic prose well illustrates that your scared that your god idea will be rationalised out of existance. As Douglas Adams put it God dissapears in logic. 

3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

I love you. But I don't like absurd claims like the ones you make. Oh so often.

No you don't Will. You don't really like anyone who knows enough science to dismiss God. 

The claims are not absurd, they are supported. What is absurd is for you to claims they are not valid based on your wants without logic or evidence to support your wants. 

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Just now, Horta said:

Ah, the nitty gritty.

Using your own argument, where is gods causal antecedent? Why does he get a free pass?

Is your real beef that science doesn't share your terminology, they tend not to call things god?

As I say, I know nothing about God, just as honest scientists know nothing about acausality ! But scientists use reason and logic, and if you consider that to be the be-all and end-all, the discussion is over, so far as science is concerned. The only option left, is that of the mystic, and to insist that is void, is unscientific. It is, if anything, an experimental science, some would say the greatest. But you become the experiment and the observer, all wrapped into one.

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2 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

misotheism I think. 

 

I understand why some people who were indoctrinated as kids find themselves invested (temporarily) in doing everything they can to hate God.

I've seen it up close and personal.

To burn with a great desire to punish God. To punish him, by not worshipping him. By hating him.

But why, why for heaven's sake, isn't that enough? Why go out in public places and do everything possible to infect others with this malfeasance?

Why not keep it to yourself?

Can't you realize that having started off on the wrong religious foot as a child does not mean it's a permanent situation?

Can you realize that this experience of extremes is likely to be a type of Holy Grail of human opportunity for you?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I am neither a Christian nor a mystic, and all that dopey "nothing became everything" myth does, is attempt  to kill off the antecedent condition known as God, but fails miserably. God in this scheme is the "hidden chaos" we ought not to ask too many probing questions about. So nothing has been achieved, bar give God a name change.

 

Quote

I don't attribute any properties to God at all

 

As a ps, see any inconsistency here?

 

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2 minutes ago, Habitat said:

As I say, I know nothing about God, just as honest scientists know nothing about acausality ! But scientists use reason and logic, and if you consider that to be the be-all and end-all, the discussion is over, so far as science is concerned. The only option left, is that of the mystic, and to insist that is void, is unscientific. It is, if anything, an experimental science, some would say the greatest. But you become the experiment and the observer, all wrapped into one.

That doesn't make any sense, or follow any logic. That's clearly a personal preference. 

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Thread cleaned. Flame baiting and trolling for arguments as well as misuse of the report centre, is just as against the rules as personal attacks. Something to keep in mind.

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3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

As I say, I know nothing about God,

I would say no one does, for far more obvious reasons.

But by your very own words, your personal claim is untrue.

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9 minutes ago, Habitat said:

There is always an antecedent, or has to be, for a causality based system to work.

And that's it, the changing flux of particles at a subatomic level beyond the conservation threshold. 

So what remains as your objection to the natural process, and again, why would the promising avenues in science fail? 

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6 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

And that's it, the changing flux of particles at a subatomic level beyond the conservation threshold. 

So what remains as your objection to the natural process, and again, why would the promising avenues in science fail? 

Because all processes that could give rise to a universe must be called "god" to start with, otherwise they're lying hypocrites?

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5 minutes ago, Horta said:

Because all processes that could give rise to a universe must be called "god" 

 

If that's what the problem is, then call God, "the First Source and Center" instead.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

I understand why some people who were indoctrinated as kids find themselves invested (temporarily) in doing everything they can to hate God.

That's not the case at all. Not all overcome the vile practise of religious indoctrination. And learning that God is not real through greater knowledge doesn't breed hate for the imaginary being. It can breed contempt for those who initated the ritual, but it's silly to hate something that doesn't actually exist. 

3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

I've seen it up close and personal.

Considering your comments, I really doubt that. When and where do you claim to have seen this? 

I get the impression that it's more somthing your making up in your head to defend your own ideas. 

3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

To burn with a great desire to punish God. To punish him, by not worshipping him. By hating him.

And where are the fairy haters, the leprechaun haters, the anti santa brigade? And apart from Joc, the unicorn haters?

Your not making any sense. That is why I strongly feel this is one of those strange ideas you get. At least we were spared the hard to follow allegory attempts you make, so thanks for that much at least. 

3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

But why, why for heaven's sake, isn't that enough? Why go out in public places and do everything possible to infect others with this malfeasance?

You don't understand the difference between redundancy and hate in this case so you? 

I think that's because of your total dependance on your imaginary friend to get through your day. You see opposition to your ideas as threats, and you feel a need to defend your imaginary friend that you lean on. 

3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Why not keep it to yourself?

Knowledge has a way of surfacing despite religious zealots attempting to suppress it to preserve their own beliefs. 

What you are suggesting is why Galileo was locked up. Any rationalisation of faith is to be quashed in your views aren't they. Preserve belief in God at all costs. That's not something to be proud of Will. That's a pinnacle of ignorance. 

3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Can't you realize that having started off on the wrong religious foot as a child does not mean it's a permanent situation?

Nature decides what is valid and what is not. Man has no say. Your desperate attempts to validate your faith can't ever be validated by anyone but your own mind, where your God lives and was created. 

3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Can you realize that this experience of extremes is likely to be a type of Holy Grail of human opportunity for you?

And your wasting this life in the belief of another one and some authority figure to feel special.

That grail has already slipped through your grasp I'd wager. It exists I  knowledge, Not that fables you preach. I mean seriously. Look at how many people find wisdom or value in your posting. Pretty much zero. The only people who support your preaching are those with their own imaginary friend to protect, and are a miniscule minority with very quirky views. That should he one giant red flag for you right there. 

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9 minutes ago, Horta said:

Because all processes that could give rise to a universe must be called "god" to start with, otherwise they're lying hypocrites?

:tu:

As the late great Douglas Adams observed, we aren't to question God to keep things running smoothly :lol:

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2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

If that's what the problem is, then call God, "the First Source and Center" instead.

 

 

It's not my problem will. It seems to be a problem for habitat.

It's strange to hear someone claim no properties for god. While also claiming that god is "hidden", "chaotic" and if he is to be logically consistent at all "requiring a causal antecedent". They sound an awful lot like properties.

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9 minutes ago, Will Due said:

If that's what the problem is, then call God, "the First Source and Center" instead.

Why call quantum fluctuations beyond the conservation of energy threshold God? 

Its not even an acronym. That would be more like QFBCOE

Gracious, there's no u behind the q, I only see that in the middle east, so perhaps we can deduce that the Muslims were the only ones who got it right? 

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6 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

desperate

 

Hey, you never answered me.

Do you hate gays who love God?

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

If that's what the problem is, then call God, "the First Source and Center" instead.

 

 

ps. I have no real problem with this, I don't agree with it, but as long as it is made clear that it's personal belief, that's fair enough.

It's when it is claimed as a fact with which to discredit science, unrealistically and unbacked by anything other than opinion, it gets a bit silly.

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1 minute ago, Horta said:

It's strange to hear someone claim no properties for god. 

 

Come on man! 

You want to know the properties of God?

Then with all your mind, all your heart, and all your soul; think of the man who said that it's better to give than to recieve, and you'll know much more than just science and properties.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Will Due said:

Hey, you never answered me.

Yes I did. 

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

Do you hate gays who love God?

No, why would I? 

 

Remember the cancer quote? It's not the people who love God that are the problem here. It's people with a personal interest or gain in mind, like you and your preaching or the Pope and money. People why say God is real to people who don't know better. They should probably be tarred and feathered. 

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1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

Yes I did. 

No, why would I? 

 

Remember the cancer quote? It's not the people who love God that are the problem here. It's people with a personal interest or gain in mind, like you and your preaching or the Pope and money. People why say God is real to people who don't know better. They should probably be tarred and feathered. 

 

You hate me don't you. :lol:

Be honest.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Will Due said:

Come on man! 

You want to know the properties of God?

Then with all your mind, all your heart, and all your soul; think of the man who said that it's better to give than to recieve, and you'll know much more than just science and properties.

My mum isn't a bloke thanks very much. She told me that many times. 

If you understood science you wouldn't need to involve emotions to find conclusions. 

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Just now, Will Due said:

You hate me don't you. :lol:

Be honest.

Pity is a much better descriptor Will. 

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8 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

so perhaps we can deduce that the Muslims were the only ones who got it right? 

 

You mean like Sharia law?

Do you love Sharia law psyche?

Do you support stoning to death gays?

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Horta said:

ps. I have no real problem with this, I don't agree with it, but as long as it is made clear that it's personal belief, that's fair enough.

 

Do you mean to tell me that science does not support that there is a first cause at the center of all things? 

Philosophy certainly does.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Hey, you never answered me.

Do you hate gays who love God?

Knock off the made up accusations. Never once has psyche101 made the above statement regardless of your continuous tactic. 

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2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

You mean like Sharia law?

No Will, that's very bigoted of you to stereotype that all Muslims support Shariah law. 

2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Do you love Sharia law psyche?

No, why would I? 

What is the point in your bizzare question Will? 

2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Do you support stoning to death gays?

Of course not, why would I? The God of the OT does, do you follow his will in that respect? 

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