Atheism is incompatible with science

[Horta]

1 minute ago, Habitat said:

I don't endorse any religion, but I can see where they started. Mysticism, and a transformative experience for a single person. 

Have you ever given a direct response to a request, just once, ever?

Or is this another requirement to be a "mystic"?

[Habitat]

Just now, Horta said:

ppps. what have you got against the great mystic an seer that founded scientology? He used the same methods you are, a lack of rational logic? 

He is an obvious bullshipper, unless you credit aliens blowing up volcanoes with nuclear bombs. 

[Horta]

4 minutes ago, Habitat said:

He is an obvious bullshipper, unless you credit aliens blowing up volcanoes with nuclear bombs. 

No different to carpenters walking on water is it? Or any amount of other paranormal nonsense?

How is it any less believable? What consistent method are you employing here to discern one pile of bs, from another other pile? Personal bias?

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Hitler could not have succeeded without the support,

Hi Walker

That is true but I think you have misunderstood who his supporters were, a call to duty and an effective recruitment plan does not require the support or belief of the whole as subtle intimidation like rejection from the whole of or being branded as a sympathizer. Men with wives and children co-operated for their safety, single men are seen as a liability because they have no nuts to squeeze in the familial sense.

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

It makes me laugh when people, with no understanding of history and political realities, make moralistic comments based on their own pampered values and attitudes  from the modern era

The essence of what is political and how it can be stymied or attained has existed for recorded history although there are less royal in family murders since capitalism. 

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Yes historically slaves were better off than the alternative, which at the time  was death

Well, hmm,.. I guess you missed the part about my rebellious nature, I would rather die trying to be free then subjecting myself to another man's will.

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I am happy to discuss the overall inhumanity of humanity, but which would you prefer; death, or slavery in which you and your family could survive be reasonably well cared for, and have the opportunity for freedom?    

Have you ever tried or were in the position of being someone's b...h? do you have a plan B like the one that you had for someone breaking into your house? I have fought to be a free man in a corrupt world and how I got there or why I did what I did was deliberate, do I need to express it as any more than that, no.

I mean you no disrespect but you have had a sheltered life and freely express it here. Some of us have to face real challenges outside of your understanding of life/consciousness but in our environments and strive. The fact that we can sit here and chit chat is evidence of that there is more to life than any one of us can understand or experience due to circumstance and no matter what anyone thinks about classes of people every ego type exists in all levels of life no matter how sublime.

jmccr8

 

[jmccr8]

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

If i claimed to have been visited by a powerful alien who had removed my nicotine addiction, what might you expect them to think? 

Of course you are, even though i explained there were no truck lights and no truck  

Hi Walker

I have had a couple or more experiences that I had three options,

god

I was special

I don't know but I am still here so I don't give a *****

jmccr8

[Horta]

14 minutes ago, Habitat said:

He is an obvious bullshipper, unless you credit aliens blowing up volcanoes with nuclear bombs. 

It's quite possible the thetans have infiltrated your thought processes lol. How would you know? Obviously for things like this, reality can't be discerned logically. This is your very basis for being a mystic. How could you make then claim he was a bs-er and stay consistent to you beliefs/claims? Or is your mysticism more betterer than his? Just because?

[jmccr8]

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Anyone who is contacted by, and linked to, the cosmic consciousness gains knowledge and understanding which,  in itself, is power. BUT it also CONFERS physical powers and abilities which a human can use. This may due to the fact that our bodies are "energised " and controlled by our mind, and when your mind is empowered, this translates to empowerment of the body. 

Hi Walker

I think therefore I am, wow some mystery that is.

jmccr8

[Habitat]

5 minutes ago, Horta said:

Have you ever given a direct response to a request, just once, ever?

Or is this another requirement to be a "mystic"?

Just telling it as I see it. I am actually a bit leery of mystics who encouraged others to imitate them, including the "big" names, or other mystics telling people to imitate the "big name" mystic that inspired them. To me, that is a bit like being an Olympic downhill skier and urging some neophyte skier to go hell for leather from the top of the ski run. I tend to think they may have mistakenly imagined it was one size fits all, and whilst potentially it might be so, in practice it is only for those so "called", and at that ripened stage of  psychological integration. But, maybe they thought the net needed to be cast the wider, to catch those few that were ready. But I don't imagine these people had infallible judgement even in their "specialty". Maybe they were aware of the dangers of mysticism ( obvious as they are, involving potentially protracted periods of disengagement with the external reality), but reckoned it worth the risk. I cannot say.

 

8 minutes ago, Horta said:

No different to carpenters walking on water is it? Or any amount of other paranormal nonsense?

How is it any less believable? What consistent method are you employing here to discern one pile of bs, from another other pile? Personal bias?

Given that we have testimony from an acquaintance that L Ron wasn't making much from fiction writing, and that he intended to cash in by inventing a fictional religion, where his fiction writing would be more profitable, we can be fairly sure it can't be taken on trust. As for some bloke walking on water, that would not shock me, having seen plenty that really isn't far removed from a miracle, or even removed at all. Aliens blowing up volcanoes, I can't get over the line.

[+Sherapy]

15 hours ago, Habitat said:

Who is "my bloke", and what "savagery" are we talking about ?

Meaning, I don’t see you rationalizing or defending or trying to get us to understand the influences and factors that contributed to your Jesus bloke being nailed to the cross the way you do with Hitler. 

That is all I am pointing out. 

[Horta]

1 minute ago, Habitat said:

Just telling it as I see it. I am actually a bit leery of mystics who encouraged others to imitate them, including the "big" names, or other mystics telling people to imitate the "big name" mystic that inspired them. To me, that is a bit like being an Olympic downhill skier and urging some neophyte skier to go hell for leather from the top of the ski run. I tend to think they may have mistakenly imagined it was one size fits all, and whilst potentially it might be so, in practice it is only for those so "called", and at that ripened stage of  psychological integration. But, maybe they thought the net needed to be cast the wider, to catch those few that were ready. But I don't imagine these people had infallible judgement even in their "specialty". Maybe they were aware of the dangers of mysticism ( obvious as they are, involving potentially protracted periods of disengagement with the external reality), but reckoned it worth the risk. I cannot say.

All that's needed there is a change of forum (religion and spirituality) and this would be greeted with welcomed arms. You do realise this is the skeptical forum and paranormal/mystical claims aren't accepted because any particular person believes them?

This is really no different at all to saying that you are simply special. In itself, an airy fairy specialty.

Quote

Given that we have testimony from an acquaintance that L Ron wasn't making much from fiction writing, and that he intended to cash in by inventing a fictional religion, where his fiction writing would be more profitable, we can be fairly sure it can't be taken on trust. As for some bloke walking on water, that would not shock me, having seen plenty that really isn't far removed from a miracle, or even removed at all. Aliens blowing up volcanoes, I can't get over the line.

So then an obvious fabulist legend of unknown (and forged) source from antiquity cuts the mustard, that's different, because someone said scientology isn't legit? You base this on Gossip?

People have been saying the other story is nonsense for almost a couple of millennia. Whole belief systems have been in opposition to it.

 

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Honest people are  always predictable  

Only liars change their story 

However, you are wrong again,

My gnosis/enlightenment occurred when i was much younger, (around 12-14 years of age) when i was contacted by /linked to, the cosmic consciousnesses, and had the full blown experience which is described in a number of books,  including Richard  Bucke's "Cosmic Consciousness"

However, this was purely a mental revelation or enlightenment. The physical element did not occur until the consciousness manifested in physical form, about  10 years later 

I had spent hours every day from the time I was 4 or 5, trying to control and understand my conscious and subconscious minds, so that I had could establish total control of my mind and body.  I think this contributed to my gnosis or  enlightenment  

MW, you are about as enlightened as my big toe. Lol

 

[Habitat]

1 minute ago, Horta said:

All that's needed there is a change of forum (religion and spirituality) and this would be greeted with welcomed arms. You do realise this is the skeptical forum and paranormal/mystical claims aren't accepted because any particular person believes them?

This is really no different at all to saying that you are simply special. In itself, an airy fairy specialty.

So then an obvious fabulist legend of unknown (and forged) source from antiquity cuts the mustard, that's different, because someone said scientology isn't legit? You base this on Gossip?

People have been saying the other story is nonsense for almost a couple of millennia. Whole belief systems have been in opposition to it.

 

No. L Ron was a known prolific writer of science fiction. Leopards, spots.

[+Sherapy]

16 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

I think therefore I am, wow some mystery that is.

jmccr8

Or he thinks and therefore he brags incessantly. 

[jmccr8]

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

No That was only the  beginning of the story  He struck a chord with a lot of the German psyche at that time. 

Hi Walker

In a way, he did conquer the world with the Volkswagon.

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Make your mind unafraid, and your body also reacts physiologically to no longer have a fear response.

Fear is an extreme and a lot of things are about an attitude like a willingness to confront their fears. My wife was always dogging my **** because of the high-risk work I did. You have no idea how much extra work it takes to deal with people that neither understand how you see what you do or how much trust you have in yourself to do what needs to be done. And then again, some of us like that edge, probably why I married women that tried to kill me.

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Make your mind happy, and your body alters, with lower Adrenalin, lower blood pressure, lower anxiety and depression,  lower release of chemicals causing stress etc.,  etc creating a healthier body  

I can agree with this after I fell of a building and messed up my back and other bits dealing with people that had no idea what level of discomfort you were in so I shut them out and focused on showing them that I would not be a cripple and have been successful in my goal(I don't see being stubborn as a character flaw)

jmccr8

Edited April 11, 2019 by jmccr8
spulling

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Or he thinks and therefore he brags incessantly. 

Hi Sherapy

 Thinking is subjective like some guys are tired after 20 mins of hard work and then there are the ever ready bunnies and working 72 like it taking candy from babies.

jmccr8

[Habitat]

9 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Meaning, I don’t see you rationalizing or defending or trying to get us to understand the influences and factors that contributed to your Jesus bloke being nailed to the cross the way you do with Hitler. 

That is all I am pointing out. 

Ok, I was only pointing out that if JC was a "main chancer" out to feather his own nest, with a cult following, it all went horribly wrong when he fell foul of the Romans. I was making no reference to the morals of those who killed him. merely indicating that the suggestion that he was some kind of cunning trickster, is not borne out by what allegedly happened to him. Such a person would not have run those risks, and it seems like he was pretty naive if he thought what did happen, would not.

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Habitat said:

There's the whole thing, right there. And most will agree with you. I think it takes a particular kind of person, perhaps they are the true aristocracy, that has the intuition that this is the avenue to the true source, having realised that all else has failed. A kind of faith that if one has the inkling it is there, one must also have that capacity, overlain as it is by the distractions of the world.

Aristocracy is a grandiose description that really doesn't fit IMO. 

What makes them different from Walker? I would not call him enlightened or aristocratic but he insists he talks to God just like the mystics. 

Rather than the mystic, isn't it only those who consider those words to be of value who decide these people had insight? 

Do you consider Mohamed a mystic? 

[+Sherapy]

2 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Ok, I was only pointing out that if JC was a "main chancer" out to feather his own nest, with a cult following, it all went horribly wrong when he fell foul of the Romans. I was making no reference to the morals of those who killed him. merely indicating that the suggestion that he was some kind of cunning trickster, is not borne out by what allegedly happened to him. Such a person would not have run those risks, and it seems like he was pretty naive if he thought what did happen, would not.

Cunning trickster?

[psyche101]

46 minutes ago, Habitat said:

He is an obvious bullshipper, unless you credit aliens blowing up volcanoes with nuclear bombs. 

That's less valid than the god concept how exactly? 

[psyche101]

13 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

MW, you are about as enlightened as my big toe. Lol

 

And I'd still give your big toe the benefit of the doubt given those choices. 

[Horta]

4 minutes ago, Habitat said:

No. L Ron was a known prolific writer of science fiction. Leopards, spots.

So were the authors of the gospels writers of period fiction. Read the Toledot Jeshu? Not much walking on water going on there, nor immaculate conceiving (a bit of a goer that mary), nor much of anything else re the original fable. Why is it incorrect?

You seem to be applying "rational logic" quite happily when you feel like it, to belief systems of your choosing, while excusing others that prop up your own personal beliefs from such scrutiny. There is no consistent method there.

Apart from ignoring requests that would demonstrate such, when you claim things support your beliefs.

Why should anyone believe you?

[Habitat]

3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Cunning trickster?

I was referring to dandyandan saying this.....

"You know as well as I do that the vast majority of these individuals are not compelled to encourage others for the good of humanity but for the good of there own pockets."

[Habitat]

1 minute ago, Horta said:

So were the authors of the gospels writers of period fiction. Read the Toledot Jeshu? Not much walking on water going on there, nor immaculate conceiving (a bit of a goer that mary), nor much of anything else re the original fable. Why is it incorrect?

You seem to be applying "rational logic" quite happily when you feel like it, to belief systems of your choosing, while excusing others that prop up your own personal beliefs from such scrutiny. There is no consistent method there.

Apart from ignoring requests that would demonstrate such, when you claim things support your beliefs.

Why should anyone believe you?

I don't know whether anyone walked on water, or raised people from the dead, but I am pretty confident space aliens didn't blow up volcanoes with hydrogen bombs, if only because it all sounds very 1950's-ish ! But I am 100% that the JC we hear about, is spouting advice on mysticism.

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I was referring to dandyandan saying this.....

"You know as well as I do that the vast majority of these individuals are not compelled to encourage others for the good of humanity but for the good of there own pockets."

Hi Habitat

Yes, and they are many and that is why many of us question the validity of their faith and how they affect others. Not everyone is self-centered but we have to keep in mind the thousands of years of manipulations that have occurred.

jmccr8

[Habitat]

11 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

That's less valid than the god concept how exactly? 

Like santa, a known exclusively human invention.