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the13bats

Gold leaf lady debunk?

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the13bats

Many years back on unsolved mysteries i saw Katie a lady who seemed to secrete gold leaf on her stomach, face, arms etc, even then it seemed a bit cheesy fake like the statues that cry milk or oil or blood,

So it popped in my mind tonight and i went on a google debunk hunt, but i cant find a good one, a hard core skeptic or two calling it slight of hand with no explanation how its done,

Not one of the videos shows it forming or excreting but careful filming shows it after its there,

She has a confidant that i believe is involved, but cutting to it, how did she perform this illusion?

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Imaginarynumber1

Like all magic tricks, once you know how it's done, it loses its appeal. 

This is nothing more than sleight of hand.

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Habitat

fb1409e7e41a6465ba559ece9177a858.jpg

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rashore

This sounds interesting, don’t think I’ve heard of it before. What have you dug up so far the13bats? 

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the13bats

Ras,

Not much, its not "just" slight of hand, at the risk of sounding pompous im good with slights, some with some without gimmicks, this isnt done that way.

The videos arent great, they never show it forming and its not a case of hiding it and applying it on the fly, if you ever worked with gold leaf its not forgiving,

My guess is way too stupid simple, and for my theory to work any show like Unsolved mysteries had to ne in on it to some degree,  i take issue its not well debunked.

Katie seems "odd" to me, im not sure she isnt deep in a fantasyland thinking its real as much as playing a part.

Its at about 26:00

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Habitat

Might have been eating gold leaf or colloidal gold, which does have some purported medical effects, but more likely excreted via the kidneys or alimentary canal, than the skin.

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the13bats
1 hour ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Like all magic tricks, once you know how it's done, it loses its appeal. 

This is nothing more than sleight of hand.

years back some coin tricks that used gimmicks were very expensive and only known to those earning money with them performing then the 80s hit and a lot of wonderful illusions were being sold cheap at strip mall magic booths so my spoiler here is limited.

Scotch and soda, the victim is shown and handed a us half dollar and english penny very close to the same size, they are asked to place they hands behind their back placing one coin in each hand making note which hand the smaller penny is in. The patter is, and varies performer to performer bet cha a scotch and soda you cant show me the English penny.

The victim is very sure but for drama effects is asked to show the half dollar first which they do, then the build up to open the other hand to show the penny....but the penny is now a quarter, or i like to use a gold us dollar coin.

All was done in view in the victims hand.

After doing it many years I was bored with the trick but one night the appeal came back big time, where my friend was a bar back at a tavern a cheesy guy would do this trick over and over during the night, i guess his only trick, my buddy asked me to play him, the guy didnt know me,

The guy does the trick on me, lots of fresh spectators, my hands in front of me and in his case he knew i had a half dollar in one hand and a quarter in the other, he had done the trick a zillion times,  never lost the bet.

He runs it textbook, has me show the half dollar, but when he pushes me am i sure i have the penny in my other hand i tell him i am sure, he gets his drink bet on and i toss him a curve ball i say im so sure i have a penny ill bet you 100.00, i played it well to his ego he jumped all over it....i open my hand he expects a quarter afterall he placed it in my hand so his look was priceless when laying in my hand was an english penny, that i flipped across the back of my fingers.

He had no clue he was totally perplexed and was even going to pay up, i wouldnt take it and ended up showing him other tricks the same trick coins could do, since then ive pulled that on a few cheezeball strip mall magic salesmen and its always fun to get one over on a dbag, 

So knowing how its done doesnt ruin it for me sometimes it makes it more fun....

 

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the13bats
25 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Might have been eating gold leaf or colloidal gold, which does have some purported medical effects, but more likely excreted via the kidneys or alimentary canal, than the skin.

The tests showed it brass leaf same as sold for crafts but noted to have that amount of the metals in your system would kill you,

Remember the guy who did so much colloidal silver he is permanent blue.

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Habitat
Just now, the13bats said:

Remember the guy who did so much colloidal silver he is permanent blue.

That actually isn't caused by true colloidal (nanoparticle) silver, only the ionic silver that turns to silver chloride as soon as it encounters the chlorine ion, as in stomach acid and blood. The metallic silver is taken out via the kidneys, largely.

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Not A Rockstar

Cases like this will never be fully debunked nor validated. It is anecdotal, based on witness testimony, and no proof otherwise.

Like many, debunking sorts can reproduce it or brush it off as faked. 

The witnesses all seem to be reputable people.

It comes down to personal assessment and decision.

Some will never believe, some will always believe and the rest of us fall somewhere in between on all these tales.

I have always been a bit less believing of physical manifestations, despite having experienced a few myself. The psychic claims - I have been dead on in some instances, and other times gotten utterly nothing. I have to base my assessments on my own experiences. Anyone else may be suspect. So, I credit others with the same wariness. I have no trouble with the claim she knew ahead of time about the theft and where it happened. It can happen (in my own experience). So, maybe it did happen as they say it did. The gold foil and objects appearing - my criteria has always been 1. does it work and 2, does it serve a purpose. It doesn't serve a purpose so I would drop it down on my personal "Maybe Meter". I am more critical than some who investigate the esoteric, but, it works for me.

JMO.

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papageorge1
2 hours ago, the13bats said:

Many years back on unsolved mysteries i saw Katie a lady who seemed to secrete gold leaf on her stomach, face, arms etc, even then it seemed a bit cheesy fake like the statues that cry milk or oil or blood,

So it popped in my mind tonight and i went on a google debunk hunt, but i cant find a good one, a hard core skeptic or two calling it slight of hand with no explanation how its done,

Not one of the videos shows it forming or excreting but careful filming shows it after its there,

She has a confidant that i believe is involved, but cutting to it, how did she perform this illusion?

Although rare, I think there have indeed been a number of real physical mediums in the last 150 years of psychic research. I have vaguely heard of this woman and case before and her performance before intelligent witnesses seems hard to explain. The blind gullible fool investigator explanation in all these cases eventually becomes hard to believe. Just for example that Berthold Schwartz guy in the video is a psychiatrist and his father was a medical doctor. 

There are those that will dispute every single event of the paranormal in history. We each have to look at the big picture then and form our own judgment. 

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Imaginarynumber1
39 minutes ago, the13bats said:

years back some coin tricks that used gimmicks were very expensive and only known to those earning money with them performing then the 80s hit and a lot of wonderful illusions were being sold cheap at strip mall magic booths so my spoiler here is limited.

Scotch and soda, the victim is shown and handed a us half dollar and english penny very close to the same size, they are asked to place they hands behind their back placing one coin in each hand making note which hand the smaller penny is in. The patter is, and varies performer to performer bet cha a scotch and soda you cant show me the English penny.

The victim is very sure but for drama effects is asked to show the half dollar first which they do, then the build up to open the other hand to show the penny....but the penny is now a quarter, or i like to use a gold us dollar coin.

All was done in view in the victims hand.

After doing it many years I was bored with the trick but one night the appeal came back big time, where my friend was a bar back at a tavern a cheesy guy would do this trick over and over during the night, i guess his only trick, my buddy asked me to play him, the guy didnt know me,

The guy does the trick on me, lots of fresh spectators, my hands in front of me and in his case he knew i had a half dollar in one hand and a quarter in the other, he had done the trick a zillion times,  never lost the bet.

He runs it textbook, has me show the half dollar, but when he pushes me am i sure i have the penny in my other hand i tell him i am sure, he gets his drink bet on and i toss him a curve ball i say im so sure i have a penny ill bet you 100.00, i played it well to his ego he jumped all over it....i open my hand he expects a quarter afterall he placed it in my hand so his look was priceless when laying in my hand was an english penny, that i flipped across the back of my fingers.

He had no clue he was totally perplexed and was even going to pay up, i wouldnt take it and ended up showing him other tricks the same trick coins could do, since then ive pulled that on a few cheezeball strip mall magic salesmen and its always fun to get one over on a dbag, 

So knowing how its done doesnt ruin it for me sometimes it makes it more fun....

 

Having practiced slight of hand tricks with cards and coins and random objects for years, I agree with you. However, my point was simply that this is just another slight of hand illusion. Nothing overtly special about it. When Unloved Mysteries filmed her in a completely empty room that they emptied themselves and scanned her beforehand for any hint of foil, predictably, absolutely nothing happened. The one time that a tiny piece of gold was filmed appearing on her finger after wiping her eye, her hand had been just out of frame in the moments before.  

Misdirection and sleight. How it's always been done.

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Piney
1 hour ago, Habitat said:

Might have been eating gold leaf or colloidal gold, which does have some purported medical effects, but more likely excreted via the kidneys or alimentary canal, than the skin.

No. There is no possible way gold can be absorbed by the kidneys. It would pass right through undigested and you would excrete it or pee it out. As for the medical effects. The only one I can think of is a impaction if you eat too much because it is completely indigestible. 

 The idea that colloidal gold is a cure for anything is medical nonsense. It might be nano-particles. But it is still particles you can't absorb. Although the nano-particles are good   delivery vehicles to certain targets for other substances in your body and good for tumor detection.

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Habitat
7 minutes ago, Piney said:

No. There is no possible way gold can be absorbed by the kidneys. It would pass right through undigested and you would excrete it or pee it out. As for the medical effects. The only one I can think of is a impaction if you eat too much because it is completely indigestible. 

 The idea that colloidal gold is a cure for anything is medical nonsense. It might be nano-particles. But it is still particles you can't absorb. Although the nano-particles are good   delivery vehicles to certain targets for other substances in your body and good for tumor detection.

That is what I said, excreted via the kidneys in the case of colloidal gold. I would not be so sure about being medical nonsense, the electrical conductivity of gold is very high, and may have action against foreign microbes in the bloodstream, certainly silver has high conductivity, and is proven to have antibiotic effects.

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Piney
10 minutes ago, Habitat said:

That is what I said, excreted via the kidneys in the case of colloidal gold. I would not be so sure about being medical nonsense, the electrical conductivity of gold is very high, and may have action against foreign microbes in the bloodstream, certainly silver has high conductivity, and is proven to have antibiotic effects.

Silver can oxidize and combine with salts. Gold is "noble", inert. It doesn't, although silver salts and silver oxide are anti-bacterial they are still poisonous to ingest.

"Electrical conductivity" has nothing to do with action against foreign microbes and if any researcher says it does, please show me some peer reviewed paper in a medical journal. The only research I read is it's use in increased and more effective drug delivery. 

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Habitat
12 minutes ago, Piney said:

Silver can oxidize and combine with salts. Gold is "noble", inert. It doesn't, although silver salts and silver oxide are anti-bacterial they are still poisonous to ingest.

"Electrical conductivity" has nothing to do with action against foreign microbes and if any researcher says it does, please show me some peer reviewed paper in a medical journal. The only research I read is it's use in increased and more effective drug delivery. 

I have been taking true silver colloid internally for two years (nanoparticle, not ionic), with positive results for a Lyme-like illness, it is the only thing that has helped. Silver in pure metallic form has definite antibiotic action, being used for a number of medical purposes, including silver-impregnated bandages, ointments etc. The only problem, it is quite expensive.

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Unfortunately
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Habitat said:

I have been taking true silver colloid internally for two years (nanoparticle, not ionic), with positive results for a Lyme-like illness, it is the only thing that has helped. Silver in pure metallic form has definite antibiotic action, being used for a number of medical purposes, including silver-impregnated bandages, ointments etc. The only problem, it is quite expensive.

Honestly, I can't find any reputable sources that correlate the claim ingesting silver has health benefits that outweigh the risks. Most of the articles that support the claim are not backed up with actual scientific evidence, they just state that 'there is scientific evidence' and don't provide any examples.

Silver is good for coating medical tools and such to prevent bacteria, but ingesting silver is entirely different.

Edited by Unfortunately
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Habitat
1 minute ago, Unfortunately said:

Honestly, I can't find any reputable sources that correlate the claim ingesting silver has health benefits that outweigh the risks. Most of the articles that support the claim are not backed up with actual scientific evidence, they just state that 'there is scientific evidence' and don't provide any examples.

Well, I can only say, every time I have eased up taking it, I have relapsed with symptoms. And I only use the nanoparticle metallic silver colloid, not the ionic, which is clear, the nanoparticle one is the colour of brewed tea, oddly enough, but if it dries out on a surface, is dark grey. Silver is not toxic, it has been used for spoons etc for centuries.

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Unfortunately
2 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Well, I can only say, every time I have eased up taking it, I have relapsed with symptoms. And I only use the nanoparticle metallic silver colloid, not the ionic, which is clear, the nanoparticle one is the colour of brewed tea, oddly enough, but if it dries out on a surface, is dark grey. Silver is not toxic, it has been used for spoons etc for centuries.

I didn't state that silver was toxic, I said there's no evidence to support the claim of health benefits from a scientific standpoint. The only scientifically confirmed result, that I can personally find, when ingesting silver (especially colloidal) is that with chronic use silver sulphates will build up in the skin, eyes & other organs and cause the whole 'bluish' look.

If it's working for you that's great, but you'd be better off finding an alternative sooner rather than later as the adverse cosmetic effects are certainly nothing anyone would cheer about.

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Habitat
10 minutes ago, Unfortunately said:

I didn't state that silver was toxic, I said there's no evidence to support the claim of health benefits from a scientific standpoint. The only scientifically confirmed result, that I can personally find, when ingesting silver (especially colloidal) is that with chronic use silver sulphates will build up in the skin, eyes & other organs and cause the whole 'bluish' look.

If it's working for you that's great, but you'd be better off finding an alternative sooner rather than later as the adverse cosmetic effects are certainly nothing anyone would cheer about.

It is the ionic silver that causes the blue skin.

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Piney
3 hours ago, Habitat said:

I have been taking true silver colloid internally for two years (nanoparticle, not ionic), with positive results for a Lyme-like illness, it is the only thing that has helped. Silver in pure metallic form has definite antibiotic action, being used for a number of medical purposes, including silver-impregnated bandages, ointments etc. The only problem, it is quite expensive.

I'm more than familiar with silver sulfadiazine . It's standard issue antibiotic ointment for medics. It's also toxic if ingested. It originally was not given without a prescription. When it was deemed safe from abuse it was added to bandages  but it doesn't have a long shelf life.

3 hours ago, Habitat said:

a Lyme-like illness

Self diagnosis without proper tests and medical training is not too bright.

1 hour ago, Habitat said:

Silver is not toxic, it has been used for spoons etc for centuries.

Your not eating the oxide that forms on it.

I want to see the studies about gold. That's what I asked for. 

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Habitat
7 minutes ago, Piney said:

I'm more than familiar with silver sulfadiazine . It's standard issue antibiotic ointment for medics. It's also toxic if ingested. It originally was not given without a prescription. When it was deemed safe from abuse it was added to bandages  but it doesn't have a long shelf life.

Self diagnosis without proper tests and medical training is not too bright.

Your not eating the oxide that forms on it.

I want to see the studies about gold. That's what I asked for. 

Do your own research, and don't be such a know-it-all.

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Piney
1 minute ago, Habitat said:

Do your own research, and don't be such a know-it-all.

I checked the whole uni library including the stuff online behind paywalls. There is none. :rolleyes: 

 

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Habitat
10 minutes ago, Piney said:

I checked the whole uni library including the stuff online behind paywalls. There is none. :rolleyes: 

 

Gold had been used as a treatment for Rheumatoid Arthritis for a very long time. And had been shown to alleviate symptoms, well beyond the placebo effect. Which raises the question of the mechanism, which would be hard to isolate, given that the cause of the complaint is unknown.

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Piney
2 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Gold had been used as a treatment for Rheumatoid Arthritis for a very long time. And had been shown to alleviate symptoms, well beyond the placebo effect. Which raises the question of the mechanism, which would be hard to isolate, given that the cause of the complaint is unknown.

I want to see a study where it uses "electrical current" to remove foreign microbes, As for being "anti-inflammatory". It must be absorbed-oxidized in the bloodstream. Since it's "noble" (i.e. inert) and does not oxidize . It's not. There is no study saying anything other than it's a vehicle for substances to ride on. 

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