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marsman

Are vegans hypocrites?

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marsman
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

 it brings me to something else I've always wondered about.  If humans are so smart, why are we the only species that doesn't seem to know what we're supposed to eat?

one reason will be....easy fast food.....and processed junk from supermarkets......we evolved as hunter gatherers......not shoppers buying takeaways and other junk

plus since internet came along......we can simply google things like....a balanced diet etc

 

 

Edited by marsman

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Rlyeh
On ‎30‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 5:14 AM, marsman said:

Evolve-GoVegan.jpg

I guess those women aren't aware of human evolution and our diet.

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Rlyeh
34 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Now that we've strayed from the topic of vegan hypocrisy to discussing the health virtues of various diets, it brings me to something else I've always wondered about.  If humans are so smart, why are we the only species that doesn't seem to know what we're supposed to eat?  The argument has gone on for decades, and probably far longer, about the proper things we should be eating.  So often the experts have been wrong.  Something will be on the bad list for a dozen years or so then it will be moved to the good list.  Every other species on earth knows what it's diet is supposed to be and eats it without question.  There are herbivores, carnivores and omnivores and each knows it's place at the table.

Which isn't necessarily a good thing.  Think disease and toxins.

 

21 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

 

  As omnivores, we are biologically suited to eat almost anything.  Nature has relived us of the burden of monotony or having to choose.  It is no doubt key to our survival and proliferation, allowing us to exploit any environment we find ourselves in.  So why mess with it?  Eat what you want or eat what's available and don't worry about it so much.

While we could eat anything within reason, cooking has shaped our evolution, we are suited for eating and digesting cooked foods.

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RabidMongoose
Posted (edited)

Vegans and morons adopting fad diets - watch and learn.

A balanced diet means gaining all the proteins, fats, and nutrients needed for your body to function properly. Saturated fat is an essential nutrient and animal fats contain vitamins hard to gain in sufficient quantity from plant matter.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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spartan max2
54 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Now that we've strayed from the topic of vegan hypocrisy to discussing the health virtues of various diets, it brings me to something else I've always wondered about.  If humans are so smart, why are we the only species that doesn't seem to know what we're supposed to eat?  The argument has gone on for decades, and probably far longer, about the proper things we should be eating.  So often the experts have been wrong.  Something will be on the bad list for a dozen years or so then it will be moved to the good list.  Every other species on earth knows what it's diet is supposed to be and eats it without question.  There are herbivores, carnivores and omnivores and each knows it's place at the table.  As omnivores, we are biologically suited to eat almost anything.  Nature has relived us of the burden of monotony or having to choose.  It is no doubt key to our survival and proliferation, allowing us to exploit any environment we find ourselves in.  So why mess with it?  Eat what you want or eat what's available and don't worry about it so much.

We did evolve knowing what to eat. We evolved learning to eat with limited access to resources.

The change is because now we have unlimited access to all the food we want, which is not how we evolved.

For example, we love that fatty burger and sugar because it was vital packed calories and nutrition for us when we had limited food year round. But now we have endless access too it so we notice that too much is a problem. 

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marsman
Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

I guess those women aren't aware of human evolution and our diet.

 

it was almost impossible for early man to survive on veggies and fruit....when the seasons changed ....not much for a veggie to eat in winter time

 

 

Edited by marsman

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Big Jim
1 hour ago, marsman said:

plus since internet came along......we can simply google things like....a balanced diet etc

Part of my point was why do we have to google it?  Why do we need scientists to design our menu?  Why don't we know?   A cow doesn't need the internet to know it should eat grass.  No one has to tell a koala that it's diet consists of eucalyptus leaves.   Not trying to start an argument, just venting my curiosity.

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onlookerofmayhem
4 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Part of my point was why do we have to google it?  Why do we need scientists to design our menu?  Why don't we know?   A cow doesn't need the internet to know it should eat grass.  No one has to tell a koala that it's diet consists of eucalyptus leaves.   Not trying to start an argument, just venting my curiosity.

I think it is matter of trying to determine what an optimal diet is. 

As someone else mentioned above about eating what was available. A lot of the time it was feast or famine. 

Hunger is pretty much universal in animals. 

Elephants can spend up to 18 hours a day and eating 70,000 calories worth of food.

Cows and koalas have much more specifically evolved diets compared to us omnivores. 

Diet is individualized in humans nowadays. 

For many reasons including health, preference or availability. 

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marsman
5 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Part of my point was why do we have to google it?  Why do we need scientists to design our menu?  Why don't we know?   A cow doesn't need the internet to know it should eat grass.  No one has to tell a koala that it's diet consists of eucalyptus leaves.   Not trying to start an argument, just venting my curiosity.

no you and i wont argue....as a young lad in the countryside......come summertime i could pick apples...pears....plums right off the non farmed wild trees....id find mushrooms....blackberries etc....local farmers would sell their goods to anyone who passed by.....i never had much money to spend on sweets as i preferred to buy a comic....but nowadays supermarkets are seemingly the only place to buy your food......so....as a young country boy i could eat lots of stuff for free.....my mum also had potatoes....veg etc growing in the garden.....so our family shopping bill was quite low

some people nowadays dont have gardens and cant cook from scratch....and tv and advertising blast us with junk foods....easy to cook etc.......that dumbs people down.....for first time in mans history.....we have an obesity epidemic

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LuisBerry
Posted (edited)

I became a vegan maybe... 6 years ago? More or less. Personally, i did it because I wanted to lose weight at that time and also had moderate acne issues. Then I watched several documentaries on how meat in America is made and well...let's just say it became easier to stay vegan. I don't judge anyone for not being non vegan. It's not for everyone.  One thing I can positively say about my body since going vegan is that i never feel tired or extremely full after a relative big meal. When I ate steak or burgers back in the day, I would feel sleepy or just lazy. Dairy for me was a huge issue all way back to my childhood years, so eating vegan cheese(cashews mac and cheese is the best!) is alot better on my stomach.  

 

Anyway. To each their own. I love the vegan lifestyle and I appreciate the network of friends I've made over the years that are like minded and quirky as hell.=^)

Edited by LuisBerry
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travelnjones

One of the problems with Veganism now is we Americanized it.  You can go to Whole Foods and get vegan junk food.  I am beginning to think the key to dieting is you just have to cook everything you eat.  Nothing too easy you can just grab and munch.  My trouble is I want something super easy so that is right up my alley.    Dieting is hard no matter what you eat I guess; stupid willpower.

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Piney
2 hours ago, travelnjones said:

One of the problems with Veganism now is we Americanized it. 

Yeah, everything they touch they turn to ****. :yes:

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travelnjones

Image result for fourth of july picnicimage.jpeg.444630063f15e66db3d7e9d3f328a142.jpeg Fattening but you gotta admit these look hella good

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ouija ouija
On 3/28/2019 at 11:39 PM, marsman said:

Cows, pigs and chickens would be extinct by now if it wasnt for man farming them.......so why dont vegans care about all the insects....flies...worms and snails.....killed by mans poisons to make their precious veggies look presentable?

 

 

Apart from the fact that cows, pigs and chickens wouldn't be extinct if man didn't farm them, I would rather an animal did become extinct than suffer at the hands of man. What makes you think vegans don't care about insects? In the UK, organic food is grown without poisons and pesticides. Some people grow their own veggies. Who cares what veg looks like as long as it is healthy food?

Supplements have been mentioned in this thread and I wonder what is wrong with taking supplements? For vegans and vegetarians the object of the exercise is to avoid causing animals suffering. If that means taking supplements, so what?

Think about this for a minute: if humans weren't adaptable in their diet(intake of nutrients), how did they survive this far? We act as if the only way to survive is through 100% nutrition, a perfectly balanced diet from cradle to grave. In fact, a poor diet(generally speaking), only begins to affect us in old age. Alcohol, cigarettes and overeating have a damaging effect sooner. Humans cope remarkably well on a wide variety of diets.

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marsman
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ouija ouija said:

Apart from the fact that cows, pigs and chickens wouldn't be extinct if man didn't farm them,

where would they live?....exception being the flightless chickens which the foxes cats and wild dogs would soon polish off....pigs may survive if they reverted to wildness....but pigs or  cows wanting to eat the  veg in the farmers fields would no doubt be shot by the farmer protecting his crops

see this link....its possible some may survive....granted.....if mankind vanished or mans numbers were hugely diminished

https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/117574/which-livestock-could-survive-without-humans

 

 

Edited by marsman

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marsman
Posted (edited)

from a vegan website
 

Quote

 

As for the farm animals themselves, they are artificially bred into existence in their billions and genetically manipulated to produce higher yields resulting in numerous debilitating health defects. Many suffer immensely from the moment they're born thanks to the ailments and illnesses we've deliberately built into them, and so not breeding these poor animals into existence in the first place is now the only sane and compassionate thing we can do. For those who are saddened at the prospect of the losing these gentle, intelligent and misunderstood creatures, many would live on in peace on the many farm sanctuaries around the world.

http://www.skoolofvegan.com/farm-animals-would-go-extinct.html4

 

 

as per the last sentence above....thats the case if there were enough sanctuaries

 

 

Edited by marsman

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marsman
2 hours ago, ouija ouija said:

Apart from the fact that cows, pigs and chickens wouldn't be extinct if man didn't farm them,

if we had never bothered to keep them in enlcosures and wait for them to breed.....we would have mostly hunted them into extinction

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marsman
Quote

 

Hunters slaughtered bison across the Great Plains by the thousands, slicing the population from 30 million to just over 1,000 by 1890 [source: American Bison Society]. Because they became so scarce and bison extinction seemed imminent, Theodore Roosevelt, William Hornaday and other men formed the American Bison Society in 1905 to ensure the species' survival.

https://animals.howstuffworks.com/endangered-species/bison-extinction.htm


 

 

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jmccr8

Image result for vegetarian gifsImage result for vegetarian gifs

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Horta
On 4/7/2019 at 1:33 AM, ouija ouija said:

Supplements have been mentioned in this thread and I wonder what is wrong with taking supplements? For vegans and vegetarians the object of the exercise is to avoid causing animals suffering. If that means taking supplements, so what?

Think about this for a minute: if humans weren't adaptable in their diet(intake of nutrients), how did they survive this far? We act as if the only way to survive is through 100% nutrition, a perfectly balanced diet from cradle to grave. In fact, a poor diet(generally speaking), only begins to affect us in old age. Alcohol, cigarettes and overeating have a damaging effect sooner. Humans cope remarkably well on a wide variety of diets.

You sound like a real animal lover ouija? If so, I can understand that. The vegans I have discussed it with all are. They all say that they are willing to supplement their diet in other ways if necessary, the main point being that they don't wish to add to the exploitation and suffering of other animal species. I find that compassionate and admirable. Whether we choose to eat animal products or not, it's obvious that other critters are capable of feelings in a similar way to humans, certainly capable of feeling pain and basic emotions like fear and terror. Some of our methods do leave a bit to be desired and should probably change. Anyway, I personally don't see any hypocrisy in those reasons for being a vegan.

 

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Jon the frog

Sorry, needed to post that one...

 

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Desertrat56
On 3/28/2019 at 5:39 PM, marsman said:

Cows, pigs and chickens would be extinct by now if it wasnt for man farming them.......so why dont vegans care about all the insects....flies...worms and snails.....killed by mans poisons to make their precious veggies look presentable?

 

controversial topic i know.......lol

 

 

 

The title of your thread is hilarious.  It reminds me of the "smug" episode on Southpark.  I know that is not what you meant, but both are funny.

 

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Lal

Im asian and i eat pretty much anything that walks or crawls or breathe or exist. Vegans to me are picky snobs who lie to themselves. Id eat a vegan.

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Tatetopa
On 3/28/2019 at 4:52 PM, marsman said:

Taken together, what emerges is the following picture: a member of species X has begun to adopt all sorts of personally-costly behaviors (like avoiding certain types of food or tools) in order to attempt to avoid reducing the welfare of pretty much any other living organisms, irrespective of their identity. Further still, that member of species X is not content with just personally behaving in such a manner: she has also taken it upon herself to attempt to try and regulate the behavior of others around her to do similarly, morally condemning them if they do not. That latter factor is especially curious, given that most other members of her species are not so inclined. This means her moral stance could potentially threaten otherwise-valuable social ties, and is unlikely to receive the broad social support capable of reducing the costs inherent in moral condemnation. I would like to stress again how absolutely bizarre such behavior would seem to be if we observed it in pretty much any other species.

This would be true of about any human religion wouldn't it?

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Tatetopa
On 4/8/2019 at 5:22 AM, Horta said:

You sound like a real animal lover ouija? If so, I can understand that. The vegans I have discussed it with all are. They all say that they are willing to supplement their diet in other ways if necessary, the main point being that they don't wish to add to the exploitation and suffering of other animal species. I find that compassionate and admirable. Whether we choose to eat animal products or not, it's obvious that other critters are capable of feelings in a similar way to humans, certainly capable of feeling pain and basic emotions like fear and terror. Some of our methods do leave a bit to be desired and should probably change. Anyway, I personally don't see any hypocrisy in those reasons for being a vegan.

Methods  Horta are a key for me.   Factory farms and the mechanization of food are difficult for me.   I've personally dealt with rabbits and chickens and pigs, didn't have enough land for a cow, I certainly do like to eat meat,  but I don't think the disrespect and the reduction of life to no consequence is healthy for us as consumers  either.  

I think Jains, who wear masks so as not to inhale bugs are the ultimate expression of this no life taking.  

I suppose vegans are looking for the lowest level or organism to consume that doesn't have feelings or awareness.   Still, it is impossible to duck the responsibility that if one is to live, something else will be consumed.  

Now if human genetic engineering advances to the point we can be photosynthetic,  then maybe we can stop eating other organisms.

Side note:  Fungi that live in symbiosis with trees and other plants trap and digest springtails and other small organisms for the benefit of the tree and the fungus. 

 

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