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WVK

Concrete pyramids?

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WVK

 

The sophistication and endurance of this ancient concrete technology is simply astounding

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.870.591&rep=rep1&type=pdf

The mystery of the construction of the great pyramids of Egypt could be elucidated by physico-chemical mea-surements on small pieces of the material. In this paper, we give several arguments against the present point of view of most Egyptologists who do not admit another method than hewn blocks. We give several pieces of evidence that themasonry was entirely built by a moulding procedure involving the use of ingredients that were all available in the regionof Cairo. 2004 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved

https://www.academia.edu/32438883/PIXE_PIGE_and_NMR_study_of_the_masonry_of_the_pyramid_of_Cheops_at_Giza

In view of the fineness and uniformity of the calcite grains [3] the builders may have transported finely weathered limestone from Tura on the East side of the Nile to the West side to make their synthetic blocks. 

https://www.academia.edu/5857664/Microstructural_Evidence_of_Reconstituted_Limestone_Blocks_in_the_Great_Pyramids_of_Egypt

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Kenemet
Posted (edited)

Oh for Pete's sake.

Let's just think about this for a minute.  You've got 2 million or so stones in the pyramid.  In order to match a "poured concrete" structure, the Egyptians would have had to construct 2 million DIFFERENT concrete forms ... and no two of them would be exactly the same.  They then have to pour the concrete and let it set.

Concrete blocks the size of the stones on the lower course takes over half a year to set (the rule of thumb is "an inch (of thickness) per month" https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-it-take-wet-concrete-to-fully-dry-from-the-time-it-was-poured ) 

Then they've got to haul them into place and bring up the next course and pour it.

There are 210 courses in the Great Pyramid.  So it would take them over 100 years to build it using concrete

 

And that doesn't count the amount of time to make the concrete or to deal with the waste associated with making concrete (not to mention the idea of why they'd use valuable wood to make forms and then use them only ONCE.).

Edited by Kenemet
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Lord Harry
Posted (edited)

Yet more crankage. Though I must say, I would rather a thread about this than another on Atlantis! At least it's new crankage.

Edited by Lord Harry
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Swede
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, WVK said:

 

The sophistication and endurance of this ancient concrete technology is simply astounding

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.870.591&rep=rep1&type=pdf

The mystery of the construction of the great pyramids of Egypt could be elucidated by physico-chemical mea-surements on small pieces of the material. In this paper, we give several arguments against the present point of view of most Egyptologists who do not admit another method than hewn blocks. We give several pieces of evidence that themasonry was entirely built by a moulding procedure involving the use of ingredients that were all available in the regionof Cairo. 2004 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved

https://www.academia.edu/32438883/PIXE_PIGE_and_NMR_study_of_the_masonry_of_the_pyramid_of_Cheops_at_Giza

In view of the fineness and uniformity of the calcite grains [3] the builders may have transported finely weathered limestone from Tura on the East side of the Nile to the West side to make their synthetic blocks. 

https://www.academia.edu/5857664/Microstructural_Evidence_of_Reconstituted_Limestone_Blocks_in_the_Great_Pyramids_of_Egypt

As previously referred to, the contentions of Davidovits, Barsoum, etc. have been discounted some years ago. The research of Jana is a particularly good example. Note details including sampling discrepancies, etc.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/288698728_Evidence_from_detailed_petrographic_examinations_of_casing_stones_from_the_great_pyramid_of_khufu_a_natural_limestone_from_tura_and_a_man-made_Geopolymeric_limestone

Additional geological/geochemical studies also demonstrate that the basic proposition is incorrect. Then one has the extensive archaeological record.

In short, the premise does not withstand technical scrutiny.

Edit: Typo/format.

Edited by Swede
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Swede
14 minutes ago, Lord Harry said:

Yet more crankage. Though I must say, I would rather a thread about this than another on Atlantis! At least it's new crankage.

Actually, quite old crankage. We were dealing with this rubbish some 10 years ago.

.

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Lord Harry
1 minute ago, Swede said:

Actually, quite old crankage. We were dealing with this rubbish some 10 years ago.

.

I wasn't here ten years ago.  But am here now to assist the Evil Cabal in suppressing this outburst of crankage.

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Lord Harry
1 hour ago, WVK said:

 

The sophistication and endurance of this ancient concrete technology is simply astounding

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.870.591&rep=rep1&type=pdf

The mystery of the construction of the great pyramids of Egypt could be elucidated by physico-chemical mea-surements on small pieces of the material. In this paper, we give several arguments against the present point of view of most Egyptologists who do not admit another method than hewn blocks. We give several pieces of evidence that themasonry was entirely built by a moulding procedure involving the use of ingredients that were all available in the regionof Cairo. 2004 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved

https://www.academia.edu/32438883/PIXE_PIGE_and_NMR_study_of_the_masonry_of_the_pyramid_of_Cheops_at_Giza

In view of the fineness and uniformity of the calcite grains [3] the builders may have transported finely weathered limestone from Tura on the East side of the Nile to the West side to make their synthetic blocks. 

https://www.academia.edu/5857664/Microstructural_Evidence_of_Reconstituted_Limestone_Blocks_in_the_Great_Pyramids_of_Egypt

The limestone used in the construction of the core blocks have been traced to quarries located near the Giza Plateau.  Your assumption is entirely baseless, demonstrably so.

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onlookerofmayhem

Khafre%20N-W%20quarry.jpg

GKQ5.jpg

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Lord Harry
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

Khafre%20N-W%20quarry.jpg

GKQ5.jpg

Yes indeed.  It would appear as though WVK aka... Weird Vigorously Persistent Krank, failed once again.  This is even more hilarious than Cladking's geysers.  LOL!

Edited by Lord Harry
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Hanslune
1 hour ago, WVK said:

 

The sophistication and endurance of this ancient concrete technology is simply astounding

 

WVK - may I humbly suggest you get on a plane and go visit the Egypt? You can get an excellent view of the core stones by viewing the area where Europeans and Arab 'dug' into them. Take binoculars with you. Examine the lower courses of all three and of course the many satellites - then go out and take a look a the other major pyramids too - don't stay on the Giza plateau - the Red, Djedefre, Neferirkare, Sahure, Bent, Meidum and Djoser - then take the train to Aswan then boat down to Luxor. At the end of that you'll won't believe in concrete pyramids any more.

cVJ5Pj6.jpg

bfDuNzh.jpg

qn67cEA.jpg

HIOxwoL.png

o6CBk20.png

The last one you might like - a large block of stone - is it concrete? Nope its part of the hill incorporated into the pyramid itself

 

 

 

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Hanslune
6 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

We know where they got the stones from. 

Khafre-quarry-EgyptArchive.jpg

If they used concrete molds wouldn't you expect the stones to be of uniform size ? They aren't.

144000-casing-stones.jpg

Why can't people appreciate these amazing buildings for what they are without having to make up mysteries about them ?

Well at least he thinks the ancient Egyptians did it......I mean the idea was interesting but anyone whose every ACTUALLY LOOKED AT THE REAL STONES knows it nonsense - you could make an argument for the cladding stones where are very similar but as Swede has noted the evidence of others cast great doubt on even this.

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Gaden
1 hour ago, WVK said:

 

The sophistication and endurance of this ancient concrete technology is simply astounding

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.870.591&rep=rep1&type=pdf

The mystery of the construction of the great pyramids of Egypt could be elucidated by physico-chemical mea-surements on small pieces of the material. In this paper, we give several arguments against the present point of view of most Egyptologists who do not admit another method than hewn blocks. We give several pieces of evidence that themasonry was entirely built by a moulding procedure involving the use of ingredients that were all available in the regionof Cairo. 2004 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved

https://www.academia.edu/32438883/PIXE_PIGE_and_NMR_study_of_the_masonry_of_the_pyramid_of_Cheops_at_Giza

In view of the fineness and uniformity of the calcite grains [3] the builders may have transported finely weathered limestone from Tura on the East side of the Nile to the West side to make their synthetic blocks. 

https://www.academia.edu/5857664/Microstructural_Evidence_of_Reconstituted_Limestone_Blocks_in_the_Great_Pyramids_of_Egypt

Can you honestly look at any of the pyramid pics posted and believe this?

 building-blocks-great-pyramid-500.jpg.8907a4e7fa3ee87487425f9d15bb8ffe.jpg

 Seriously, can you?

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acute
1 hour ago, Lord Harry said:

I would rather a thread about this than another on Atlantis!

Atlanteans built the pyramids!

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WVK
10 minutes ago, Lord Harry said:

Yes indeed.  It would appear as though WVK aka... Weird Vigorously Persistent Krank, failed once again.  This is even more hilarious than Cladking's geysers.  LOL!

Because I posted it doesn't mean I believe it.  I did not write "The sophistication and endurance of this ancient concrete technology is simply astounding"  That was quoted from the paper.  I was wondering if these claims have been refuted, apparently they have.. Works for me

7 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

Well at least he thinks the ancient Egyptians did it......I mean the idea was interesting but anyone whose every ACTUALLY LOOKED AT THE REAL STONES knows it nonsense - you could make an argument for the cladding stones where are very similar but as Swede has noted the evidence of others cast great doubt on even this.

"cast great doubt s" Is that a pun?.

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Swede
3 minutes ago, WVK said:

Because I posted it doesn't mean I believe it.  I did not write "The sophistication and endurance of this ancient concrete technology is simply astounding"  That was quoted from the paper.  I was wondering if these claims have been refuted, apparently they have.. Works for me

"cast great doubt s" Is that a pun?.

My personal compliments. All too often we encounter individuals who are not amenable to dealing with the credible data. These pages can be a learning experience for those willing to further their understandings.

Best,

Swede

.

.

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John Bastien

Seems it all cemented itself well.

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Jodie.Lynne
2 hours ago, Lord Harry said:

Yet more crankage. Though I must say, I would rather a thread about this than another on Atlantis! At least it's new crankage.

But didn't you know...?

Concrete was invented in Atlantis….

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Piney
4 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

But didn't you know...?

Concrete was invented in Atlantis….

By Adena Mound Builders. :yes:

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Impedancer
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Piney said:

By Adena Mound Builders. :yes:

Nae by SKANSKA or bob the builder. ;-).this theory is not exactly build on stable ground, it's under construction.If we talk about the Egyptsians i believe they did infact use calcined gypsum but hardly to build the pyramids and then there is Portland Cement the forerunner to the mordern stuff. :-P

Edited by Impedancer
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WVK
On 3/30/2019 at 5:22 PM, Hanslune said:

- you could make an argument for the cladding stones where are very similar on even this.

Simple to cast in the 51.5 angle from molds. 

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WVK

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Kenemet
54 minutes ago, WVK said:

Thats from 2007,  this 2011:

Were the casing stones of Senefru's Bent Pyramid in Dahshour cast or carved? Multinuclear NMR evidence

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.870.591&rep=rep1&type=pdf

 

That's pretty weak.  After running through all the scans they then say that Tura limestone was used to make the hypothetical concrete.  Why anyone would want to take perfectly good limestone, crush it up, make a concrete, cast it, cure it for 3-6 months (at one inch per month; the rule of thumb) and then put it on a structure when they could just cut limestone and put it up... is a non-starter.  That would turn a 2 year job into a 20 year job.

...and to add to the evidence against pile, once they'd learned to make concrete why didn't they make standardized forms and then cast every stone building around?  Because once Akhenaten taught them to make talatats (smaller blocks of stone for building) the standard throughout Egypt became the use of talatat-sized blocks in construction and moving away from the use of massive megaliths.  Since they weren't stupid, they would have absolutely used concrete everywhere... if they'd had it.

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Nnicolette
On 3/30/2019 at 1:54 PM, WVK said:

 

The sophistication and endurance of this ancient concrete technology is simply astounding

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.870.591&rep=rep1&type=pdf

The mystery of the construction of the great pyramids of Egypt could be elucidated by physico-chemical mea-surements on small pieces of the material. In this paper, we give several arguments against the present point of view of most Egyptologists who do not admit another method than hewn blocks. We give several pieces of evidence that themasonry was entirely built by a moulding procedure involving the use of ingredients that were all available in the regionof Cairo. 2004 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved

https://www.academia.edu/32438883/PIXE_PIGE_and_NMR_study_of_the_masonry_of_the_pyramid_of_Cheops_at_Giza

In view of the fineness and uniformity of the calcite grains [3] the builders may have transported finely weathered limestone from Tura on the East side of the Nile to the West side to make their synthetic blocks. 

https://www.academia.edu/5857664/Microstructural_Evidence_of_Reconstituted_Limestone_Blocks_in_the_Great_Pyramids_of_Egypt

Isn't it already established where the stones were quarried from, along with remnants of the process?

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Swede
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, WVK said:

Thats from 2007,  this 2011:

Were the casing stones of Senefru's Bent Pyramid in Dahshour cast or carved? Multinuclear NMR evidence

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.870.591&rep=rep1&type=pdf

 

In 2013 the Diaries of Merer were recovered. These date to the reign of Khufu. The diaries describe aspects of the transport of Tura limestone blocks from the quarry to Giza. Translation are readily available.

Not only are the diaries further direct evidence of the use of non-"concrete" products, they bring into question the methodologies of the cited paper. In addition, as mentioned by Kenemet, why would a later period construction utilize materials that would have hypothetically been demonstrated to be "obsolete".

Briefs:

https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/papyrus-reveals-how-the-great-pyramid-of-giza-was-built/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diary_of_Merer

Translation:

https://www.academia.edu/32158380/LES_PAPYRUS_DE_LA_MER_ROUGE_I_LE_JOURNAL_DE_MERER_-_English_and_Arabic_translation_of_the_texts_and_Summary_of_the_information_

Edit: References.

.

Edited by Swede
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