Trump threatens to close US-Mexico border

[Farmer77]

18 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

How does that one detail get so consistently overlooked?

 

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

I don't think anyone is complaining about people that come here legally. 

 

Trump wants fewer immigrants from “shithole countries” and more from places like Norway

I do believe that is complaining

 

 

[+OverSword]

3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

 

 

Trump wants fewer immigrants from “shithole countries” and more from places like Norway

I do believe that is complaining

 

 

We're talking about people in this forum

[Farmer77]

Just now, OverSword said:

We're talking about people in this forum

Mea Culpa

[Princess Serenity]

[Unusual Tournament]

6 hours ago, OverSword said:

I don't think anyone is complaining about people that come here legally. 

We also have illegals it because there is no land border it’s easy to intercept them. By and large illegals being allowed to stay only makes up a small percentage of those looking to call Australia home.

[Ogbin]

On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 3:29 PM, Lord Harry said:

 ...the legal immigration process should be highly selective to ensure that only the best and brightest, those who will actually contribute to bettering the quality of American life should immigrate here. 

Wasn't it this way before? I heard that the U.S. at one time did send people back from where they came from if they had nothing to contribute. 

[Golden Duck]

9 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

We also have illegals it because there is no land border it’s easy to intercept them. By and large illegals being allowed to stay only makes up a small percentage of those looking to call Australia home.

I think you're mixing up refugees and immigrants.

[Unusual Tournament]

6 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

I think you're mixing up refugees and immigrants.

is there a difference?

[Golden Duck]

4 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

is there a difference?

Yes. Immigrants aren't in danger and pay their own way.

Refugees flee a country out of serious danger.

[Unusual Tournament]

9 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Yes. Immigrants aren't in danger and pay their own way.

Refugees flee a country out of serious danger.

yes you're right. thanks. 

[Tatetopa]

14 hours ago, OverSword said:

We're talking about people in this forum

It may be the case in this forum.

However in the general populace, the distrust, discomfort and fear induced by the current atmosphere does not distinguish between legal and illegal.   When someone yells at an Asian looking person in a car, "Go back where you came from", they do not first ask if they are here legally.  If people are speaking Spanish  to each other in a public place and somebody confronts them and says This is America, go back where you came from. they do not distinguish.  Shall I just coyly say the current administration without mentioning names has made political hay out of creating fear and resentment for immigrants.  They are rapists and murders here to kill your family. steal your jobs, and take all of our welfare. The assumption is made that these people should not be here.  A brown man that gets confronted on the street for being a muslim terrorist  may not have time to say , "No, I'm Sikh from India,  I pad $100K for my H1B visa and I earn $300k a year as a software company CEO. 

Maybe people on this forum do not deface mosques or fly off the handle when there are Spanish words on the menu of a Mexican restaurant.  Maybe they don't take a tire iron to the mechanics teenage son because they are looking for some Mexican punks to beat up/.  All of that does happen though. Seems like, as a nation, we currently don't welcome non-white immigrants from any country.

[Jerry Gallo]

2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

It may be the case in this forum.

However in the general populace, the distrust, discomfort and fear induced by the current atmosphere does not distinguish between legal and illegal.   When someone yells at an Asian looking person in a car, "Go back where you came from", they do not first ask if they are here legally.  If people are speaking Spanish  to each other in a public place and somebody confronts them and says This is America, go back where you came from. they do not distinguish.  Shall I just coyly say the current administration without mentioning names has made political hay out of creating fear and resentment for immigrants.  They are rapists and murders here to kill your family. steal your jobs, and take all of our welfare. The assumption is made that these people should not be here.  A brown man that gets confronted on the street for being a muslim terrorist  may not have time to say , "No, I'm Sikh from India,  I pad $100K for my H1B visa and I earn $300k a year as a software company CEO. 

Maybe people on this forum do not deface mosques or fly off the handle when there are Spanish words on the menu of a Mexican restaurant.  Maybe they don't take a tire iron to the mechanics teenage son because they are looking for some Mexican punks to beat up/.  All of that does happen though. Seems like, as a nation, we currently don't welcome non-white immigrants from any country.

So which generalization is fair, yours above that portrays "as a nation, we" to be a bunch of racist haters; or Trump's that portrays border crossers to be a bunch of rapists and murderers?

We're a nation of laws and borders sir, please explain why our citizens are expected to adhere to and respect them while visitors are not without the activist hyperbole above.

[aztek]

without a hyperbole??? that would look like clean page then.

Edited April 4, 2019 by aztek

[+OverSword]

5 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

It may be the case in this forum.

However in the general populace, the distrust, discomfort and fear induced by the current atmosphere does not distinguish between legal and illegal.   When someone yells at an Asian looking person in a car, "Go back where you came from", they do not first ask if they are here legally.  If people are speaking Spanish  to each other in a public place and somebody confronts them and says This is America, go back where you came from. they do not distinguish.  Shall I just coyly say the current administration without mentioning names has made political hay out of creating fear and resentment for immigrants.  They are rapists and murders here to kill your family. steal your jobs, and take all of our welfare. The assumption is made that these people should not be here.  A brown man that gets confronted on the street for being a muslim terrorist  may not have time to say , "No, I'm Sikh from India,  I pad $100K for my H1B visa and I earn $300k a year as a software company CEO. 

Maybe people on this forum do not deface mosques or fly off the handle when there are Spanish words on the menu of a Mexican restaurant.  Maybe they don't take a tire iron to the mechanics teenage son because they are looking for some Mexican punks to beat up/.  All of that does happen though. Seems like, as a nation, we currently don't welcome non-white immigrants from any country.

You may be right in your own experience but I think I’m a bit oblivious to it because I live where the left is rabid and dominant. Over here you may ruin your social and professional life if you don’t tacitly agree with PC culture. I have never seen a maga hat except on the internet and tv. I live in a self proclaimed sanctuary city where the police are not allowed to ask for immigration status.

[Tatetopa]

5 hours ago, Jerry Gallo said:

We're a nation of laws and borders sir, please explain why our citizens are expected to adhere to and respect them while visitors are not without the activist hyperbole above.

Well said, we are a nation of laws.  We have a right to protect our borders.  Every individual also has a right to protect his home and private property, no doubt about it.   The United States has a right to prevent unauthorized crossing.  The United States has a right to apprehend individuals without proper permission to be here.  The United States has a right to raid businesses, apprehend workers here illegally and punish companies that violate employment laws.  States have a responsibility to make sure that only qualified citizens are allowed to vote.

Does that have a bearing on how people respond on the street when they see a Hispanic or Asian or Indian?  Can an American citizen with all of the rights appertaining thereto have brown skin or Asian features? Or is the first thought that they are illegally in this country?  Can a bilingual person speaking Spanish in a public place be first assumed to be an American citizen and left to their own prosperity, or is the first thought that comes to mind that they must be illegal? When you hear  a Ukranian couple doing their shopping at Walmart, does somebody feel compelled to yell "Go back to Russia"?

Maybe we are a great and welcoming people that just don't like illegal border crossers. That would be great.  How do you distinguish and individual on the street and know that they are legal immigrants or are the rapists, murderers, and welfare cheats, that sneaked across the border illegally?

When a FOX newscaster refers to illegals as dirty and disease carriers, does the assumption get made those people who are here legally must be clean and disease free?  When a Congressman says we cannot maintain our culture with somebody else's babies does that only refer to illegal crossers?

When a Texas legislator chides a Texas judge for speaking Spanish, does he assume she must be illegal?

If all of your ire is reserved for illegal crossing, that is great. 

[Jerry Gallo]

50 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Well said, we are a nation of laws.  We have a right to protect our borders.  Every individual also has a right to protect his home and private property, no doubt about it.   The United States has a right to prevent unauthorized crossing.  The United States has a right to apprehend individuals without proper permission to be here.  The United States has a right to raid businesses, apprehend workers here illegally and punish companies that violate employment laws.  States have a responsibility to make sure that only qualified citizens are allowed to vote.

Does that have a bearing on how people respond on the street when they see a Hispanic or Asian or Indian?  Can an American citizen with all of the rights appertaining thereto have brown skin or Asian features? Or is the first thought that they are illegally in this country?  Can a bilingual person speaking Spanish in a public place be first assumed to be an American citizen and left to their own prosperity, or is the first thought that comes to mind that they must be illegal? When you hear  a Ukranian couple doing their shopping at Walmart, does somebody feel compelled to yell "Go back to Russia"?

Maybe we are a great and welcoming people that just don't like illegal border crossers. That would be great.  How do you distinguish and individual on the street and know that they are legal immigrants or are the rapists, murderers, and welfare cheats, that sneaked across the border illegally?

When a FOX newscaster refers to illegals as dirty and disease carriers, does the assumption get made those people who are here legally must be clean and disease free?  When a Congressman says we cannot maintain our culture with somebody else's babies does that only refer to illegal crossers?

When a Texas legislator chides a Texas judge for speaking Spanish, does he assume she must be illegal?

If all of your ire is reserved for illegal crossing, that is great. 

Question for you...Mexican immigration laws are more harsh than those of the US. Unsure about enforcement. You think that is to keep out whites more than Hispanics/Latinos? Or is the purpose to keep out undesirables in any form? I think it's the latter. 

As for your examples, can't defend them, wouldn't try. But do I think they in any way represent the whole of us? I don't. I catch some looks and harsh words in certain communities I go to through work. It is what it is: lack of intelligence, lack of training in public etiquette, a bit of anger and resentment. 

I abide by the rule of good or bad, right or wrong, rule followers or rule breakers. If in your gut you think 100K per month are flooding our border for good and right purposes, I'd ask why you'd conclude that. 

 

[Gromdor]

Looks like Trump backed down.  He's going to wait another year and maybe do tariffs on automobiles.  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47741926

[Farmer77]

5 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Looks like Trump backed down.  He's going to wait another year and maybe do tariffs on automobiles.  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47741926

Im not sure if mockery or relief is the appropriate response.  Maybe a cocktail of both?

Edited April 4, 2019 by Farmer77

[Tatetopa]

3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Looks like Trump backed down.  He's going to wait another year and maybe do tariffs on automobiles.  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47741926

I thought we just worked out the  replacement for  NAFTA that fixed all the problems and discussed automobiles extensively.

[Tatetopa]

4 hours ago, Jerry Gallo said:

Question for you...Mexican immigration laws are more harsh than those of the US. Unsure about enforcement. You think that is to keep out whites more than Hispanics/Latinos? Or is the purpose to keep out undesirables in any form? I think it's the latter. 

Reasonable question, but I don't know the answer. I can assume your belief is logical

 

4 hours ago, Jerry Gallo said:

I abide by the rule of good or bad, right or wrong, rule followers or rule breakers. If in your gut you think 100K per month are flooding our border for good and right purposes, I'd ask why you'd conclude that. 

Once again, I don't know the answer to that question or assign their purposes to good and right.  I favor border security and American control of its border.  It matters little to he how good a person's reasons might be if they cross illegally, there is a proper channel for entry

All of that being said, I think we need to absorb a certain number of immigrants for the good of our economy because there are jobs to be had as prosperity increases.  In addition to that, I think we should be Christian enough and organized enough to admit a portion of  sanctuary applicants that have a valid reason to apply for sanctuary.

I also believe there is a tremendous business  incentive  to keep people at home and develop their countries.The $500 million in aid the Pres. says he will cut off is a fraction of what we spend in this country on border enforcement and social programs.  Maybe Gucci shoes could be made in Guatemala instead of Bangladesh. 

[Gromdor]

16 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I thought we just worked out the  replacement for  NAFTA that fixed all the problems and discussed automobiles extensively.

It's just ink on paper.  We've reached the point where words and promises mean nothing.

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

It's just ink on paper.  We've reached the point where words and promises mean nothing.

That's what makes a good ally, somebody you can depend on.

[+DieChecker]

On 4/3/2019 at 10:35 AM, Farmer77 said:

 

 

Trump wants fewer immigrants from “shithole countries” and more from places like Norway

I do believe that is complaining

So  now we WANT to be like Norway?? I can't keep up with all this... 

[+DieChecker]

On 4/2/2019 at 4:19 PM, and then said:

America has always welcomed immigrants.  We just don't want our nation to literally DIE because we are flooded with so many that our sense of who we are vanishes.  You wouldn't be very pleased if I came to OZ and started demanding you do things MY way while I expected you to shelter, feed, educate and take care of your family's health, now would you?  It's insulting to even have to feel the need to argue such a simple ideal.  

I'm really only against the illegal immigrants, and specifically against those who are illegally crossing the border. A lot of those who are illegal still came here legally, and so were screened. Those who cross the border illegally could be anyone. I think there was an article that a Syrian terrorist was caught crossing the border the other day.

Here is what ANYONE needs to meet in order to try to move to Australia...

http://www.visabureau.com/australia/visa-requirement.aspx

Quote

The requirements for an Australia Skilled Visa are as follows:

• Age - you must be under 45 when you apply;
• English language - you should have sufficient ability in the English language to work in Australia (at least at a competent level);
• Nominated occupation - when you apply you nominate a skilled occupation, which fits your skills and qualifications. This occupation must be found on the Medium and Long-term Strategic Skills List;
• Skills assessment - before you apply, you must have your skills assessed by the Australian assessing authority designated to assess your nominated occupation (which will usually have specific qualifications requirements);
• Health assessment - you should be of reasonably good health and all applicants must have their health assessed by a panel doctor and undergo a medical examination; and
• Character assessment - you should be of good character and this too will be assessed.

If you are unable to meet the new visa Basic Requirements and pass the Points Test, then you should not continue with a General Skilled Migration to Australia application.

So... Ageism for one. Language bias for two. They require anyone who wants residence to be employed BEFORE THEY GET THERE. They have to be in peak health tool... People with Preexisting conditions need not apply.

AND lastly they judge your CHARACTER... and if they don't like you much... You're out.

How many of the 100,000 immigrants that tried to cross the US border in March would qualify to immigrate to Australia?? Probably, what, a couple hundred? Maybe none, since they don't have prearranged jobs there. And doubtless have no way to prearrange a job, considering where they are coming from.

So, I am 50, so I will NEVER be allowed to move to Australia... Never....

Edited April 5, 2019 by DieChecker

[Jerry Gallo]

10 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Reasonable question, but I don't know the answer. I can assume your belief is logical

 

Once again, I don't know the answer to that question or assign their purposes to good and right.  I favor border security and American control of its border.  It matters little to he how good a person's reasons might be if they cross illegally, there is a proper channel for entry

All of that being said, I think we need to absorb a certain number of immigrants for the good of our economy because there are jobs to be had as prosperity increases.  In addition to that, I think we should be Christian enough and organized enough to admit a portion of  sanctuary applicants that have a valid reason to apply for sanctuary.

I also believe there is a tremendous business  incentive  to keep people at home and develop their countries.The $500 million in aid the Pres. says he will cut off is a fraction of what we spend in this country on border enforcement and social programs.  Maybe Gucci shoes could be made in Guatemala instead of Bangladesh. 

This is totally reasonable. I think the majority of Americans want a closed border with some reasonable allowances, exactly what you propose. I'd even support some sort of exchange program where we send a few spoiled Gen Z kids for a little Central American vacation to get them to realize how good they have it here. But I digress.

So, if we can't answer with certainty whether or not our immigration laws are reasonable and fair in wanting to keep bad people out while allowing good people in and we can't answer whether or not those wanting in are genuinely in need of being here or just an extension of the hand-out community, I guess the next logical question is why the left is so adamantly opposed to border security? Best guesses are irrational hatred of Trump or a sincere progressive desire to add to their bloc of exploited minorities for personal gain in the way of votes.